Ray_Cathode
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Following 'journalism' with 'integrity' is pretty much a non-sequitur - something like a square circle.
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Yeah, last year McEneny and Sautner were both ahead of him too.
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Sautner and McEneny are both left hand shots that have spent lots of time on the right side. Oh, and I watched a lot of Utica games last year and Brisebois played on the left side in pretty much all of the games I saw.
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I think Beagle stays, because of the cap hit - not really tradeable, but Sutter is very tradeable, and if Gaudette pays out, in a year or too, Sutter could get traded. He is still a valuable piece for a contending team, but not so much for us if he is standing in the way of a rebuild. Sad, in a way, I like Sutter, he has great character and brings it every game. But also, he might be at the wrong stage for Vancouver - it might still be a few more years until we are a serious contender, and Sutter is 29 - he needs to be on a contender in the next year or two, and probably deserves that opportunity.
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I agree that some guys just play better in a more structured game. Like good quarterbacks in football, good defencemen make passes to where you are supposed to be - they anticipate what other players will do, just like good chess players.
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Well, the story is not yet complete on Jake Virtanen, either.
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Thinking Tyler Madden will not get you to Mike Peca. In junior, Mike Peca had 102 points in 55 games, and 113 pts in 55 games the next year. He had tremendous offensive talent early, but mostly, he was terrific defensively early, and his defensive play just got even better. Though I'd love to see Madden become the second coming of Mike Peca, I think the likelihood is very small. I hated to see Peca go, when Vancouver traded him, but it was pretty nice to see Mogilny arrive (never missed Mike Wilson, who went the other way, and the first round pick that become Jay McKee had a long career as a journeyman defenceman). Misfortune never really let us play Bure and Mogilny together much (Bure got injured), so overall the trade didn't do much for us except provide some entertainment value watching Mogilny (and I guess entertainment value is worth something). Of course, we did acquire Brenden Morrison (and Dennis Pederson) when we traded away Mogilny - so I guess that all worked out well when Morrison was put together with Naslund and Bertuzzi.
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So what if some seats are empty at this point. Management has to take a longer view than that. If you really want to kill support in Vancouver then just be mediocre over the long hall, that would do it. Another year of weaning out unproductive vets while our young guys learn to win in Utica is the right way forward if the aim is long-term contention. One more year of low in the standings could score us another key piece or two, and get us one year closer to Tryamkin coming back and Hughes coming. Another year of development and half the kids at the young stars tourney could be ready, and then we are likely to be a playoff team, and perhaps a young contending team the year after that. Having a team that looks like the great young Oilers teams sure wouldn’t hurt, or a team like the 2011 Canucks but younger and deeper, would be something a lot of Vancouver fans are dying to see. But do it half-assed, and you get half-assed.
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Gadjovich’s defensive game is very good for a junior hockey player - he was a regular PK guy in the OHL. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him in that role in Utica along with playing on one of the second or third lines - depending on who gets sent down.
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Two of those goals against were with Pettersson and Dahlen on the ice. They couldn’t get the puck out of our end, you can’t just blame the D for that, getting the puck out is a six man job. On one of those goals Pettersson turned over the puck at the blue line - how is that the D’s fault, the other was when Pettersson didn’t pick up his coverage - that is not the D’s fault either. Pettersson owned up to that, which means he is focussed on being a 200 foot player, and that is good, but it doesn’t look at this point that he is entirely ready for the show defensively. Gaudette, in contrast, does look ready in that regard, don’t be too surprised if Gaudette makes the team to start, and that Pettersson and Dahlen might need some work in Utica. I’m saying that will be the case, we’ll have to see - the coming pre-season games will tell a lot. i am really anxious to be moving forward with the young guys - but when they are well prepared. I would like to see their odds of early success maximized, and that might mean some games in Utica. Boeser and Gaudette both stayed an extra year in College, and it shows in the completeness of their games.
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Since I was not talking individual players, this whole paragraph is battling a straw man. In addition, you don’t refute a general principle by arguing marginal circumstances. We knew Tanev was a keeper in a dozen games, same with Boeser, same with many others. But that is unusual, with indivdual players it takes time to discover when they are ready, which is a good reason to develop them in the minors and bring them up as injury replacements or to sub for players underperforming. You are actually making my argument for me with the Virtanen example. Again, thanks for making my argument for me. Already answered this, but yes it is simpler at the team level and you mostly determine it based on performance as stated above. The only complication is teams involved in an extensive rebuild and cycling out has beens for young guys with perceived potential - here think marginal young players like Goldobin, Leipsic, Pouliot, Hutton - this is pretty much their year to make or break - these guys have pretty much used up their development time in the minors - for them it is time to do or die.
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“MDZ is another guy who plays either side equally.“. I notice you didn’t complete that thought. You didn’t say equally what. The Leafs have a couple of decent offensive defencemen, but they could sure use a Tanev and a couple more responsible types, but then we could use some O from the D, and a couple of guys not named Stetcher that could stay healthy on the right side. I wouldn’t mind seeing MDZ traded, but have to wonder what he could bring back.
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“Regardless of what the nucks do they can hardly be mentioned with the Oilers.” I would’t say that too loud, have looked at our results the past four years? But you are right, they have five Stanley’s and we have zero - we really can’t be mentioned in the same breath as the Oilers.
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The debris is there to gain the time to develop the young guys properly, not ruin the confidence of many of them by bringing them up to soon, each taking the blame for each others errors, instead of sharing each others successes. Ownership has to decide what they want, endless mediocrity, ruining the careers of countless young guys developed too hastily, or take the view that the top of the heap is the ultimate target. There are examples of this latter kind of development; earlier powerhouses such as Detroit, Chicago, and now Tampa Bay, Nashville, Toronto, and others. There are also examples of the other, short run, kind of management; previous generations of Leafs, Oilers. Flames, etc., come to mind. It depends on whether ownership considers themselves to be contenders or pretenders.
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I wouldn't be too anxious to get rid of Hutton or Pouliot yet, lots of young defenceman (say in Hutton's case) have strong first years and then have tough second seasons, only to rebound and have strong careers. Don't forget that Hutton had a very good first year... which shows that of which he is capable. As for Pouliot, I thought he looked the most comfortable of all the left shooting defenders at being able to play the right side when called on, and he was able to assume a more attacking role as he got more experienced. The vast majority of NHL defencemen aren't instant hits, they develop over a period of years. The guys that should be targets of movement are the one's who have been around for years and don't improve their games - i.e. Gudbranson, Del Zotto. Being around for a long time means that you have likely seen the best that you are ever going to get. Now, that might mean that their level is okay in the 5-8 slots, but you want the up-n-comers in those first four slots on a building team. Now that might mean that Juolevi starts with Cull, but from all appearances last night, that did not hurt Brisebois' game at all - he looks like a very confident defender now. It also didn't hurt the development of McEneny and Sautner. If virtually all of the young guys are sent down to develop, it could create a situation like the Leafs have (God, I hate using them as an example (Wullerton? spits)) where they have built a deep, young organization (that just won the Hardy Cup) and has already fed tremendous talent up to the big club.
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I'm not sure what LE is reliable at other than cashing his cheques... it certainly isn't finishing. Right now he looks like a 6 million dollar fourth line PKer. If Pettersson is going to play in the top six, he should have another playmaker/finisher with him and somebody who can skate and play the physical game on the other wing. If he struggles at draws, put him out there with Gaudette, who doesn't, and let Gaudette take the D zone draws. But he clearly has a connection with Dahlen. I'm not even averse to seeing Pettersson and Dahlen start the year together in Utica while some of the vets play themselves out of their spots in Vancouver. Once the debris is out of the way, bring them up. This might also be a great year to have Malhotra and/or Jarvis take turns working with the centres in Utica. Both were great face-off men.
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I love that the young guys picked by our scouting staff have character... and it's really nice that they can also skate, shoot, and handle the puck.
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Why on earth does there need to be a 'consensus' among fans? Is there a bonus for having an opinion that agrees with the consensus of the moment, can't figure out how we ever got past 'the earth is flat'... wasn't that the consensus? Hell, Aristotle believed the world was round, and had several proofs of it. The student of his student, knew the circumference of the earth within a 1000 miles, he calculated the the distance to the moon pretty accurately for his day, but he just couldn't get other people to form a consensus with him, so I guess his calculation was just BS.
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It's economics; everybody pretty much has at least one opinion, and lots of people have multiple, so there is lots of supply;, on the other hand the demand is not so high. That kind of sets the value of opinions - big supply, little demand, not worth much.
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How is it that you believe Schroeder to be a “...serviceable player having a nice career.”? Eighteen goals in ten NHL seasons, he had one goal and one assist in the NHL last season doesn’t look very serviceable to me - it looks like borderline career over to me.
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Yep, I like that possible line too, also the presence of Virtanen will help protect Pettersson because the other team will have to have their heads on swivels wondering if the tracks of that freight train are pointed at them. Could be even more interesting if the back end behind those guys consists of Tryamkin and Woo.
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Nhl network top 50 prospects includes 4 canucks
Ray_Cathode replied to cuporbust's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
Easily the best non-goalie player the Avs had on their cup runs???? Burnaby Joe says high. Go and check their numbers. Forsberg was a great player, no argument. So was Joe. -
Erickson has now been here for two years and even when spending time with the Sedins and on the power play, he was entirely ineffective near the net. Eleven goals the first year, ten in his second. Just because he is paid 6 mill a year doesn’t mean he is a six million a year player. Having Virtanen on the line with Pettersson and Baertsche makes up for Baertsche’s lack of muscle and provides a lot of drive to the net. Since whatever line Sutter is on will be our number one checking line, and since defence is something that Virtanen is mostly adequate at, putting Erickson and Granlund with Sutter makes defensive sense. It is also Ericksson’s best deployment since he is now more effective on offence rather than defence. Granlund is also sound defensively, but he and Sutter both being healthy may help him find his scoring touch.
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There is another factor that should have kept us away from Peterson anyway - he had a tumour on his arm the size of a fist, if I remember correctly.
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Goldobin Horvat Boeser Baertschi. Pettersson Virtanen Ericksson Sutter Granlund Roussel Beagle Schaller Leipsic Gaunce Put Baertschi with Pettersson to give him a veteran scorer, and Virtanen to give other teams something else to think about other than just running Pettersson - with Virtanen out there they will have to have their own heads on a swivel. Goldobin with Horvat because he looked good there at the end of last year. Took Erickson away from any offensive player because he’s a guy where offence goes to die. With the three new vets and Sutter we will have two lines we can give O zone starts to, and two lines we can give D zone starts to. If any of the above struggle or are injured - Leipsic/Gaunce. Waive Gagme down to Utica - he has done nothing to deserve to play in Vancouver, and if Erickson struggles, he can go down too and bring up the best of Dahlen, Jasek, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Palma, or McEwan. At this stage it is important to show that only performance keeps your job in Vancouver, not how much you are paid. On D: Edler Stetcher Del Zotto Tanev Hutton Gudbranson Pouliot When Tanev and Gudbranson inevitably get hurt and each miss half a season, it will create room for whoever is up to it - Juolevi, McEneny, or Sautner.