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Everything posted by Rob_Zepp
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His point totals are also reflective of the style of game his coach dictated, the minutes he got and the linemates he had. Put him with better wingers and a more offense first system and those points inflate quickly. While not "real" hockey, he showed at ASG what sort of impact he can have if he doesn't feel he needs to do it all by himself. Points are used far to often to justify good or bad play. There are so many factors involved in point totals - put a fire hydrant as a winger with Gretzky in the day and they get 50 goals.
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wow - so much good stuff here I wish I could use a month of "positives" on this. You write this as a true fan - a fan cheers when their team wins but cheers harder when things are down as that when they need the lift the most. well done....
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2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
Fair enough - perhaps I am lumping him in incorrectly with the throng of fanbois who keep quoting some ranking or another about where the Canucks should pick or where Virtanen is now ranked or how Nylander or Ehlers are better etc. It is almost as if they believe this business to not have the competition of 30 other smart management teams and a number of other professional leagues to compete/track etc. Drafting, like trading, is about your own team's needs and that can come in a variety of forms and is team specific. If that is what he was saying and he isn't trolling with lists, then he is owed an apology by me for lumping him in with the trolls. -
I expect approximately 29 out of 31 will not have this situation - so about 95% of all NHL teams will not have one of those players as there number one center.
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2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
What Poile has done and what he is proposing are so entirely different but if you agree with him, that must make it fine. IF an organization makes no asset management decisions on each player consideration, that organization will cease to exist and/or the management team will be replaced over and over and over..... In your example, to humour you, that was an asset decision that then returned greater value to BOTH teams during the trade. When you are where the Vancouver organization is, you need to consider a number of things including the fact that you may or may not be able to choose by position or similar. The definition of BPA is UP TO EACH TEAM and not some ranking from PlayStation. It is like in another thread whereby using a predraft ranking, the choices made in previous drafts are panned. Insane. Those rankings are NOT BY THE TEAM that makes the choice. They have their OWN rankings and I doubt they are sharing it with you. Have you ever been prospect? A number? It is pretty dehumanizing but when you get your name called, you don't care if you are 7th overall or 177th, you are going to bust your assets to become a player at the NHL level and who knows if the 177 isn't a BP than the 7th - but both decisions are important to the team making them and it goes beyond a bunch of stats and rankings that you get from Hockey News. -
2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
If you are comparing what you are proposed to what Poile has done - wow, just wow. Have a great day wherever you are and whatever the colour of the sky is in that world. -
2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
There are a lot of people in NHL fanbases very happy that you are not their GM. -
2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
So, one team has that and the other doesn't. You can cherry pick all you like and further, I am certain your comparing the SC champs from last year and a return to the SCF should like have better overall statistics than the 29th place team. However, if it was all about points neither of these teams are in the final. -
2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017
Rob_Zepp replied to hyper00's topic in Prospects / Farm Team
The fixation with points on this board is bizarre. Look at one of the teams in the SCF this year - their leading scorers just barely got 60 points. Does Chicago have a "front line center"? Oh yeah, some guy named Toews who had 6 more points than Bo and couldn't crack 60 points. This pick by Vancouver should look at overall organizational depth which is currently weakest on the back end if you project out a few years. At the same time, if a player like Glass is available it is tough to pass. Again, using point and/or comparing another drafted player's statistics for their first couple of years to slag another player is simply nuts. Until a player has either been in the league five years or truly shown they will not make the leap to the NHL, comparisons are at best mildly amusing. Hockey is a team sport and the best teams win - not what looks best on a comparison of statistics. -
On one thing, we agree.
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Agreed on all points. I also don't mind constructive criticism but there are a handful of posters who seemingly are only on this board to bash him in particular and made ridiculous comparisons on progress to other players who are, themselves, still only 20-21 and could as easily regress as progress. This player's unique combination of size, strength and mean streak don't happen very often and time and time again these players show they don't "arrive" until 22-25 and reward those with patience.
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Precisely. There are a whack of trolls that won't let this go and it will be great to see them vanish when this kid proves them wrong. Look at the teams playing for the cup - their key pieces included a lot of "busts" in the eyes of the fanboi mentality ilk and not sure many of those who only look at points, development that happens until 20 (nothing past is possible...right Justin Schultz?) and their own insecurities about being the fan for a team not currently crushing it.
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I really don't care. I share my opinions for what they are. If anyone believes everything they read on the internet, they are morons. I am not acting nor have any motive to do other than state what I know from what background I have. How you choose to contribute is up to you. Criticism isn't trolling but fabricating issues about a player, writing off a player who is developing and consistently comparing non-like players on a different timeframe/development path is trolling when it is repeated ad nausea. Once again, this player will have a lot of people (fans?) eating crow. Start choosing the sauce you prefer.
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Yup. Trolls will go into hiding or find another project to whine about.
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Take what you want from who you want, I don't care. I remain amazed at how easily young talent is written off by this team's fanbase. Not sure if a sign of extreme insecurity or a fanboi mentality from too much Playstation. These are young men, human beings, and they all progress differently. To call any one of them a "bust" when just barely legal to vote/drink in your country is beyond nuts. My opinion. How you base yours if up to you. As you and others seem incapable of letting a non-bust opinion stand, I wonder aloud as to your motive. Why is it so important to you to beat up on your young prospects?
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"People like you". You know nothing about me. You clearly know less about developing young hockey players. Having been in his shoes in my own life and been surrounded by many others, I have somewhat of a clue who is likely to make it and who isn't. NOTHING is a lock and even McDavid could still crash and burn ala some injury issue and someone like Rodin becomes a 30 goal NHL scorer - both unlikely but both can happen. With the player of topic for this thread, he simply had no idea how to play as a professional as it was so easy for him against teenagers. He got a wake up call, got the step in the right direction he needed under Green and now the rest is patience by team and hard work by him. He could easily fail, sure, but his combination of size, speed and overall "edge" are unique combinations that don't show up more than once every five to ten years for any team and I contend with the strides he made this year, he is going to have an awful lot of those burying him already eating a lot of crow.
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On that bolded above, we can both agree. On the rest, I doubt it so let it go.
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Only those who don't understand process. That's ok though, some follow hockey because they know and appreciate the game and others follow as they know stats and PlayStation. Both can have fun and it is a hoot to listen to the latter go on about things.
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I don't have a problem at all. I don't think his season was a disappointment as the goal once in AHL was to learn how to play as a professional and I believe Green when he says he made huge strides. If Green had said he regressed, I would have been disappointed. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word?
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You, like many, is making this all about PPG. He was NOT put to AHL to put up points but to learn how to play hockey at a professional level and for him it was the 100' of rink he wasn't used to seeing. His shots on goal and shot attempts were very high on a per minute basis but he was there to learn other things. Reading things into points at AHL level would mean that so many players currently in NHL should not be there and so many in AHL should be. I am very much looking forward to a time about three or four years from now when he is a solid top 6 in the NHL and I can mine these posts as a way to teach patience to those expecting very 18 to 20 year old to be McDavid or equivalent.
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I don't agree actually. I don't compare him to anyone but himself. He came out of junior without a clue how to be challenged or how to play professional hockey. His man-boy body, speed and general physical presence landed him a job out of training camp he never should have been given in hindsight but even then given the low minutes he gave strong hints in the offensive zone of his good hands and smart decisions - but in other end of the rink was out of his depth. He is much closer to the NHL as far as sticking after having had a year in AHL under Green - much closer. So, no, I don't agree. Oh, and he has no "peers" until they all have had sufficient seasons to compare. Nick Lidstrom, three years after being drafted was still not in NHL so were his peers that far ahead of who is now in top three all time discussion? Patience. This place does not know of this word.
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Because they are impatient and don't understand the process of developing power forwards and that not every player has the same development path....well, all that for starters plus much more. Those who are "disappointed" are probably the same who like to do forensic drafting to point out what players were missed - this looks bad for EVERY team in the NHL over time as no one has a crystal ball. Here is the list of the teams that have gone to a Cup final in the past ten years: - Ottawa - Anaheim - Detroit - Pittsburgh - Philadelphia - Chicago - Vancouver - Boston - Los Angeles - New Jersey - New York Rangers - Tampa Bay - San Jose So, 13 total teams in the past 10 years. This year, potentially one more name if Nashville prevails. Point is, not many over an entire decade and how each reloaded after their run has varied and/or what part of their key player cycle they were on during their initial run (e.g. years of suckage led to Chicago having plethora of high end picks prior to being good - kind of the Edmonton model but actually drafting well which the Oilers have only done more recently). Calling a 20 year old power forward a disappointment is a strange thing when he made strides. I assume any team not listed above or any team above that didn't win a cup also "disappointed" with all their players too.
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Good troll attempt. He didn't "work his way out of NHL". He is developing as a professional hockey player and the best environment for him this past season was AHL and not NHL where the latter team was a rudderless ship and he would have had limited minutes and confidence crushing experiences. Learning how to play like a professional versus a man among boys per WHL was the challenge and Green, who appears to be nothing of a spin doctor at all, sounds very happy with the progress Jake made. Anyway, good trolling attempt!
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It's not professional. That is enough for concern.
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Agreed. One reason many of us who played at any level let alone in NHL never go into beer league etc. Look what happened to Ryan Smith. People forget that there is a difference between doing something as recreation and something you do for your living - when you threaten someone in the latter category, not cool at all.