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Everything posted by ilduce39
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I think the thought is: who else could have returned multiple 1sts that would really kick-start a rebuild? The other big piece was Kesler and he returned what he did. Maybe “I won’t waive” Edler? He would, for sure, but I’ve never seen anyone less likely to waive. Man of Glass Tanev? The return on Tanev is super iffy. With 20/20 hindsight maybe you can cherry pick his max value.
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It absolutely is - and even when you’re a part of the process it’s a lot of speculation since we have no idea how things would have turned out otherwise. Everyone’s different. That’s why I also don’t take for granted when things DO turn out, though. At the very least, we didn’t break him. (Bo’s pretty sturdy though.) For Bo, though, it doesn’t surprise me he turned out. Guys a beauty. He probably didn’t like it at the time but seems like the type to thrive on being challenged. Starting the next year on the 4th was annoying. I’m sure I defended it at the time since I’m actually a bigger coach homer than management homer but Bo was obviously ready to take on more (and I think he did by the end of the season? Willie was sllloooow to change.)
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The example was for internal competition, not the value of a Linden Vey who I said was a failed acquisition. In any case, I’ve had this discussion too many times. JB’s early moving of picks didn’t set the franchise back enough (if at all) to whinge about 5 years later. Recently, his moves should be a lot more palatable on that front to even his harsher critics. I remain optimistic about about the direction of the franchise.
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Vey allowed Willie to deploy Bo down the lineup as a rookie. Bo outplayed Vey and is now fantastic. I didn’t say “crucial” I said he’d probably have turned out anyways, but you can’t say it didn’t work the way it played out. Its just an example, but it makes sense as to the value of the age-gap acquisitions beyond hoping they’d turn into stars IMO.
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Keeping those assets does little to move the needle away from mediocrity. See my last post about Vey.. even in a failed gamble he had value as a goal for Bo to overtake. Legitimately as well, not against a UFA on a 3 year multi million deal. I see value there. Not to say picks don’t have it, but those age gap guys had value as well.
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Yeah that part made no sense. Developing teams absolutely need competition to hold each other accountable. The last thing you want are a bunch of young entitled underachievers. Bo and Vey had almost identical stats in their first seasons with the Canucks. I’d bet anything Bo wanted to overtake Vey’s spot up the lineup. Would he have turned out anyways? Probably. But that internal competition is exactly what it’s all about. It wasn’t handed to him. He trained hard and outperformed Vey to move up the lineup. That’s important and all too easily dismissed by some.
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I could walk you through the minutia of why 20-something leadership is important over 30-something for connecting with young players but you’re just going to spin off in another myopic, binary direction. Some moves were for leadership, some were for competition, some were a swing for the fence, hoping they’d turn into a home run. Not all the moves panned out but the overall movement has been positive. and the point is, as far as development and team building: it’s working.
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We aren’t that far off up front. On the back end we have a ways to go, but with Hughes /Juolevi and a possible Tryamkin return we also have some “outs.” When you think about it, we were icing a defence with Biega, Schenn, Sautner and Brisebois on it and beat a playoff-hunt hawks team at home... that’s insane.
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I admitted it was a different situation, but you said no one wastes picks. Washington threw them around like candy years before winning a cup. We aren’t chasing a cup but our roster needed veteran leadership and NHL ready prospects to create internal competition for spots. When JB took over there was NOTHING to bring up to the NHL to replace the vets he shipped out. IMO it worked - most of our young guys have made gains and the team isn’t a sideshow despite some bad seasons. If anything, they overachieve. That’s worth some depth picks. As for the purpose of draft picks: JB still has top rookies and still has a deep prospect pool - there isn’t anything to complain about on that end. I think this is the crux of it. These guys aren’t going to let it go. Ever. That the rebuild didn’t go the way they wanted in the beginning. Even though it’s turned out just fine so far.
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Teams piss away “assets” all the time. Washington trades a 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2015 for Curtis Glencross. That lack of depth cost them a championship? They also moved out a 3rd for Mike Weber. A 2nd for Winnik. A 4th for Tim Gleason. A 6th and two 7ths for Eddie Pasquale. A first and conditional 2nd plus prospects for Shattenkirk. A 5th for Graovac. Is anyone whining about assets? I like what Joe did in the other thread and focused on the positives - really, that’s where the emphasis should be. Washington DID land Oshie and Eller. Those guys helped. Dont bother responding with the fact they’re in a different position than us. In this day and age every team needs young guys to constantly retool their roster. Moreover, the point is depth picks are often a lateral move at best. If you think you can add a slightly better player they’re hardly untouchable.
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What “success” would have happened otherwise? We can see the odds there, too. With the 2nds JB moved out we’d be lucky to land a (healthy) Baertschi. Let alone NHL’ers in Gudbranson and Sutter. Those 3 were all first rounders for a reason. The false narrative you're pushing is that a championship team has slipped through our fingers because JB failed to stockpile draft picks or moved some out. It’s a lie.
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I kind of agree that Sven should just shut it down for the season and come back next year. IMO he’s our best forward after Bo/Brock/Elias and we could really use him as healthy as can be next year. That said, it’s up to him and the medical staff. Would go a long way for him getting a few games before the offseason just for his confidence.
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...and the rest of the season just got a whole lot more interesting. Can't wait to watch this kid out there!!
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That's not what Joe is saying.. Biega has always been our professional "depth" d-man. Even when we're fully healthy he rarely gets sent to Utica. When injuries strike he slots in and usually does a decent job. In the past, though, he fades because of the amazing effort he puts in as a backup. This season he's been a bit more consistent... but I doubt we go with Tanev-Stecher-Biega on the right side next season. JB isn't secure enough in his job for that.
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They've faced similar criticisms from the peanut gallery but Sutter’s tenure has been way better than Gudbranson’s. He’s averaged about 16 goals over 82 plus 34 points or so a season. 64%dzone starts. Last season his even strength GF//GA per 60 was positive for goals against. He had the most average short handed time per game and had good GA/60 in that role. Honestly, the guy isnt a 2C, sure, and he’s been hurt more than you’d like.. but if you compare his contract to others he’s at least an average signing who brings some C depth and defensive acumen / depth scoring to the roster.
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What are you even on about... JB got a pick back from Del Zotto. Cullen from TSN has broken down draft pick values for years: extremely small advantage from the 6th round to the 7th. Especially if that’s a lower 6th pick vs a high 7th. Youre whining about JB not hanging on to DelZotto for about a 1% better chance at getting a 100 game NHL’r. If not understanding the gripe makes me a “Benning apologist” I’m curious to see how you’d define yourself.
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I trust where JB is going with this. Guddy was having a rough year but what he brought to the table toughness / leadership wise had a lot of value. With that said, Pearson’s a decent return and LW is another area of need on this team. Overall, McCann is a dud anyways so the biggest loss was a 2nd round pick that was used to select Rasmus Asplund who is still overseas. (Yes DeBrincat was taken a few slots later but that’s a fool’s errand playing with 20/20 hindsight.) We’re also now officially looking for a new heavyweight who can play more than 10 minutes. Hopefully we can come together as a team to avoid any shenanigans until UFA.
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I like Gaunce but if you’re eyeing Granlund’s spot he is on pace for about 28 points and 14 goals. That’s perfectly good bottom 6 production IMO. Gaunce would need to double his 15 points in 117 NHL games to match (production wise anyways). I’d be fine if they called him up but I can see why there’s no rush to do so.
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Working on his Kevin Beiksa stink face? A work in progress.