86Viking
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Everything posted by 86Viking
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Agreed, this TDL and upcoming draft and off season is going to be big for the Canucks. If they don't do much and lose some good assets for minimal to no return then the President and GM are going to start getting the majority of the blame. Then honeymoon 1st year is over for JR and PA now it is time to act and make moves to shake up this core and move this team forward...
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I never liked the JR hire, I wanted us to go in a different direction. JR brings a ton of experience and Canucks are stuck with Alvin and JR for at least another couple years. Major changes to the roster are more likely to happen before we see a President and GM get fired. Christ, we are already going to be hiring another coach...another mistake by us bringing in a coach unable to make a roster play a well rounded team game. Canucks have lots of offense but can't rely on a Bubble level of Demko to bail them out all year every year. Canucks need to get the next coaching staff to bring in a system the players will commit to or out the door they go. That for me is the only reason I am in favour of bringing in Tocchet now...is to let him have a month coaching our team with his system and if guys don't backcheck like JT or players who can't defend and cover their man like Myers, OEL, Stillman basically any D not named Hughes (untouchable & Bear ( worth retaining depending on term and $) then the GM is going to seriously try to TRADE those players like a recently signed Miller or Kuzmenko if no new deal is signed by the TDL for example. Then by moving out some players at the TDL and or at the draft it may give us an opportunity to better fill out some roles on our team in FA or via the trade market.
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Horvat has ever right to chase the $ and sign with a team who makes the playoffs if he so chooses. For me, he has played at a Selke level, or been a consistent enough scorer and point producer to warrant a long term deal near or over 8m per season. Long term I think it is right for the Canucks to trade Bo if he is wanting to get paid for what he is doing this season and not as a whole over his career to date. I remember far too often overpaying players never living up to their new contracts be it 4th liners or bottom pair D men the list is long for every team making those mistakes and the Canucks have done that enough already to get us in our current cap situation making it hard to pay Bo what his value is at right now...
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Your not wrong but saying it with an aging core like the Sedins, Luongo, Bieksa, Burrows is a lot different than now with a younger core of Demko, Pettersson, Hughes. 2 of those are both elite players that this franchise has rarely if ever had at their given positions... So to me retooling with the Sedins was a mistake where retooling with EP and Hughes is much easier to stomach as a Canuck fan
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Would CDC be still fully on board for a rebuild right now if EP has told management he would be unwilling to sign long term if they decide to tear it down...would you be okay possibly having to trade EP just so we can tear it down and do a FULL REBUILD? Lucky for us, EP, Hughes are both young and Demko isn't at his ultimate prime so IF a RETOOL was to occur and we were able to get good assets back by trading some of our core players now while gaining some cap space that might be what is best for the Canucks in say 2-3 years time. It is a RISK as young assets or draft picks are complete unknowns compared to retaining a player like Horvat, Miller, Boeser etc. Problem is our team has been together a while and this team has proven more often than not they are not good enough, can't play team defense or work together as a team to improve that, which is BOTH on the players and coaches...
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Giving up on management after 1 full year on the job...sounds a lot more like an NFL owner firing people after only 1 or 2 years on the job. This was never going to be fixed within a year. Now, with committing to JT we seem to be unable to pay our Captain to retain him largely due to his insanely high shooting percentage he is having during a contract year... I am just as upset as all other Canuck fans but we went way too long with Benning as GM and it screwed us...I wanted Benning gone at least 2 years prior to when he finally got canned. That OEL and Garland deal is hurting us the most and it is not even close! Over 12m in salaries combined to players with years on their contracts while giving up a top 10 draft pick and another pick just to clear 12m in dead salary that was ALL going to be coming OFF the payroll after 1 more year... OEL was on the decline before we traded for him and to trade for him in which we gave up some good assets while only getting Arizona to retain less than 1m was very bad on Benning's part. Arizona might actually have a decent GM now in Armstrong...
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Your are NOT wrong, but remember this JR is saying that in his 1st FULL year as President. Compared to Benning who said it on multiple occasions... So for Fans it is hard to here JR say the same thing but it is coming from a different management group. No more excuses for JR or GM Alvin though this TDL is big for the future of the Canucks, your trading your Captain that is going to be a BIG change and hopefully bring back some good pieces that will HELP the younger core grow and develop into a TEAM that plays well night in night out for each other sacrificing along the way. A RE tool with where our team is at now makes sense given we have Demko, EP and QH all great players in their early to mid 20s, a rebuild would have started las off season trading JT, Bo etc and tanking for Bedard as some put it. But the shortsightedness in some fans is to be expected and we see it in this very thread. Nobody has a crystal ball to know what it is we need to do now to get this team to one day be a Stanley Cup winner, if only it were that easy...
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Can a poll be added to this thread mods!?!? I would like it to be " Who on CDC listened to the full JR interview or who read just the tweets" After listening to him answer the questions it puts it in a different perspective for me vs just cherry picking words on posted in social media. He knows there is work, and it will mean losing good players like our Captain. But remember this...A player signs a contract and can be nearly buyout proof (Myers). Can we afford to pay Bo for what he is on PACE to do this year? Prior to this season a deal for Bo was in the 6's to 7m range for me. A recent 30g and 60pt C, who is great at faceoffs but much more of a shooter than a playmaker. Whereas with JT he has proven since joining the Canucks he is a PPG player and is a very good playmaker...you don't get 60a in a year by fluke when your team bad like we were. So it is tough to see Captain Bo be likely out the door but if Bo really wanted to stay he could...Bo is coming off a contract that has paid him $33,000,000! A great comparable to Bo is RNH, his new deal looks like a steal a 5.125m cap hit as a PPG player. But he is signed into his mid 30s with NMC. NO CHANCE we get Bo to sign for that contract. But Bo could pull a Landeskog or Stamkos and RE sign with the team that drafted him high in the 1st round and give him C. Stamkos could have left for more $ but he stayed in TB and then the team broke through and won a couple Cups with more opportunities to win again. Stamkos had multiple 90pt seasons under his belt, FOUR 40g plus seasons including 1 season over 50g and 1 season reaching 60g but he also had some injuries. But a much higher PPG rate and signed for a higher % of cap hit at his current 8yr 8m compared to say Bo signing an 8yr 8m deal with Vancouver. Stamkos was so much more proven than Horvat is currently imo to command a 8m cap hit contract long term. Landeskog stayed with Colorado and signed for less $ and has won a Stanley Cup. Landeskog plays such a hard game he has just been injured otherwise his point totals would be higher. RNH signed his 8yr 5.125m cap hit deal at same as as Bo basically I believe. Now RNH is above a PPG this season, he had a down year in his contract year but had previously had 2 straight 60pt plus seasons. So to me, I would have loved a 8yr Bo contract signed this past summer for something higher than RNH 5.125m but something less than Landeskog 7m (yes a W not C). Where I would be okay with going in regards to a Bo extension with his current play would be similar to but still less than Sean Couturier and his 7.75m cap hit. Couturier is much better defensively than Bo is, has had multiple 30g and 70pt plus seasons while being a Selke winner! So convincing me to pay Bo more than Couturier with his limit seasons of higher pt totals and a player who does NOT have the Selke for of say Couturier or R. O'Reilly and his Selke play and 7.5m cap hit. So for me Bo signing to a 8yr deal at 7.5m is a win for both Bo and his new 60m fortune he signed to go along with the last deal paying him 33m. Not too Shabby if you ask me! AND for the Canucks if he can play at a 40g and 70pt pace for 5-6 yrs of the above contract I mentioned. For me, if we keep Bo then we have to move out JT...the cap space would be need to keep Bo for obvious starters but we need to lessen the cap hit we have on our Wingers and hope assigning Podkolzin & Hoglander to the AHL might just be what is best for their long term development (that is my hope it will be good for them long term)
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How so.... 1. JT Miller averaged a ppg since becoming a Canuck. JT is more of a playmaker so he helps others around him production wise, Bo does NOT do that to the same level... 2. Horvat has played at maybe a 60pt in that same time? Horvat is a goal scorer and not much of a setup guy. Bump for being a true C who can win faceoffs, but in a contract year shooting at 24% which is NOT sustainable... So for Vancouver to offer a max term contract to Bo a 2 time 30g scorer and likely 2 time 60pt is a knee jerk reaction the team CAN'T afford to do because of poor cap management. Imagine not having OEL for over 7m...that is more than enough $ to give Bo a raise if we aren't stuck with OEL's boat anchor cap hit...Thank Benning for that one! I would have preferred us to have traded a 2nd round pick WITH Myers to anyone for cap relief, unfortunately moving cap with term for a overpaid player like Myers costs even more than that, we would have to offer up our 1st round pick or Podkolzin. Even today this year, I would put Myers on waivers for the should purpose of trying to shed his 6m cap hit to be able to try and sign Bo and or Kuzmenko.
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So after 1 year the President GM are suppose to fix things...How many years did Benning have? As hard as it is to hear or read this team was not going to be fixed in 1 year... Way too soon to judge new management, early on it doesn't look great but they are trading the team captain at the TDL... that is a major change to the team. New leader will emerge and some other quality players may be traded oh and another overhaul of the coaching staff is going to occur. Part of what I don't like about what Rutherford said today was the whole retool thing was hard for most to hear because that is what old management did their entire time here. So to hear that again is tough for most Canuck fans to hear. Or not having to change the core statement... its fixing the roster outside of the core. I take that as having the 13m plus tied up in 2 D like OEL and Myers but we are stuck with them and buyouts for them are not worth the cap hit pain. I am hoping we are in a situation like Colorado was when they trade O' Reilly and Duchene in their (retool/rebuild). So if JR is looking at doing that sort of retool by moving Horvat and JT for some good assets maybe add Kuzmenko and Schenn as 2 other roster players they could get a nice return this TDL. Keep EP, Hughes, Demko as the young core they keep while having Podkolzin and Hoglander with upside. Then hope for some draft and trade luck... I don't think we get as lucky as Colorado did with the trades but cap flexibility is key for us to try and do this ReTool JR talked about.
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Man this one is hitting me hard, loved how Gino Odjick played the game. He was so important to the Canucks and bonding with Pavel Bure and being one of his best friends was just icing on the cake. RIP Gino, your a legend in my eyes! Gone far too soon...
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(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
86Viking replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
JT "Should" have been traded, good player just doesn't fit our teams timeline... Millionaires should NOT get NTC's imo either, you may far too much money. I get you have a family and don't want to move them around but nobody is forcing you to play 10-15 years in the NHL either. Players should be smart enough to save up their $ and comfortably could retire after a 1 decent contract after their ELC. I also, would be happier with GM Alvin realizing a mistake with JT and trading him BEFORE he becomes a 8m cap hit with NTC protect for our team, compared to us keeping JT and him sulking or being too competitive of a guy for our team. A team that clearly is NOT close to being a competitive NHL playoff level team. Own the mistake now before it drags you down for years. Same goes for OEL, don't even fathom buying him out...get him to waive and sadly we would have to retain a decent chunk...something our CLUELESS old GM Benning thought getting Arizona to retain less than 1m was a good coupe on top of giving up a top 10 pick and multiple other picks! Can we traded OEL back to Arizona in a 3 way deal to get them to retain more % and the Canucks retain say 1m and Arizona bumps up their retainment to say 2m or whatever total % retention need to get rid of OEL. Then if OEL was moved, I would be okay with Girard coming back from Colorado. Ideally for JT but that is unlikely. Holding out hope an Eastern Conference team is willing to trade for JT at this TDL, less of a return for us but we should get something decent for him still just not the delusional type of return many thought JT would get us last TDL or last Draft...same people might be thinking the same return for Bo this TDL!? On Bo, if you chose to move him...for the love of god let his agent have contract talks with teams so if a deal could be agreed upon for a contract extension the RETURN coming back to Vancouver would be better...Get the best return you can if you decide to trade your 28yr old Captain! -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
86Viking replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I would be very disappointed for 2 reasons... 1. Hate the Laffs never would help them out in a trade 2. Canucks do NOT need a Winger prospect coming back, we need C/RHD. We have 2 wingers in Hoglander and Podkolzin marinating in the AHL already -
[Waivers] Alex Nedeljkovic, Nick Caamano
86Viking replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Yzerman took a chance on Nedeljkovic on a short term contract to see if he could be a capable G to get them through the rest of their rebuild. They have since signed Husso and he has done a decent job for Detroit -
[Waivers] Alex Nedeljkovic, Nick Caamano
86Viking replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
With Pearson's cap hit cleared for the rest of the year it wouldn't be the worst idea. Let Demko sit out the entire year if need be and send Delia back to Abbotsford and hope that team can do something in the AHL playoffs. No goalie can fix our team currently though...Management got blinded by the stellar play of Demko bailing last years team out all the time. For a former NHL G like Rutherford to see that and recognize it like he did BUT then do nothing to address the dismal D core all off season...well, that was all I had to see from this new regime to see that clearly don't get it. Still time, and could save face with some bold trades this TDL but could go a long way to adding prospects to the organization and free up some cap space along the way -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
86Viking replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
It is for sure, Peeke and Kuraly or Roslovic would be an okay return for JT if we could recoup a 2nd in 2024 that would be a bonus. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
86Viking replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
We just didn't need to spend that kind of $ on another winger who was a UFA, would have been nice to use that cap space and have traded for Marino instead, but we have been down that road already...So bizarre to see a young top 4 RHD available for trade and your new President and GM signed him when in Pittsburgh but then we see Marino go to a division rival instead of the Canucks making that trade happen...Sigh! -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
86Viking replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I may be wrong but I think the Canucks "could" have added a NTC to the last year of his current deal if they wanted too...I could be wrong about that though -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
86Viking replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
his new deal kicks in next year for a cap hit of 2.75m per I think? -
Easy answer for me...trade EP40 with the pick NOT Hughes, when have we ever had that dynamic of a D man...NEVER is the answer. If we can trade JT before the TDL, maybe we can sign Horvat? The return would be less and we would be taking a contract back of some kind but if we are getting #1 overall and Bedard we are hoping he can be a C at the NHL level, something I think he is determined enough to get better at once he arrives in the NHL next fall. We can then build around Bedard, Hughes and Demko-if he regains his form and we make sure he is healthy before he returns. Problem is we still need to fix the D...a proper coaching staff with D structure would help. Could we convince Colorado to take JT and them send us Girard back? Then, hope that if Tocchet is hired as the new coach it will motivate OEL to waive his NTC....Canucks would need to retain on OEL but that is better than remotely considering a buyout! Trade Kuzmenko for a good prospect or maybe a late 1st round pick, could we add Stillman to Kuz to clear just over another 1m in cap space or the LTIR of Pearson? Allow Garland to see if he can thrive under former coach Tocchet in a top 6 role? Be a BOLD move, but offering our 2023 1st round pick AND Elias Pettersson for the 1st overall pick would bring excitement around our team like never before. Would suck to lose EP, but no way we get Bedard in a trade without offering him imo. Sadly, a team might even ask for more even with EP having a career year. Or let's get CRAZY and trade Bo, JT, Kuz, Schenn for as many picks and prospects as possible. Bundle the Canucks 1st with anything else we have NOT named QH or EP and see if that could get us the 1st overall...I doubt it would but ya never know!
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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Florida Panthers | Jan. 14, 2023
86Viking replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Canucks Talk
The guy the Canucks passed on in the 2022 draft so we could take Swedish LetterKenny??