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Kevin Biestra

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Everything posted by Kevin Biestra

  1. Yeah those were the days. I think the 21 team league was the sweet spot for me. All of the WHA teams absorbed, still had Winnipeg and Quebec, hadn't gone expansion crazy to all kinds of kooky places. Nobody ever had to go like 8 years in a row missing the playoffs...the two crappy teams in the division would just take turns squeezing into 4th (e.g. Vancouver and LA). And it was a real anomaly if a truly great player went his whole career without winning a Cup like Dionne or Perreault or Hawerchuk.
  2. Glad you enjoy reading it. The Canucks have been so lousy for so long now that it's more fun for me to talk about the old stuff anyway. There was a sort of shocked disappointment after 1982 when the Canucks went right back to first round exits or missing the playoffs...but it was still more fun to follow for sure than most of the last decade. Those teams went out on their shield every night. As Woody Harrelson would have said in North Country, "red ice" players.
  3. It seemed like there were only about 10 Canucks games on TV back in the old days. You mostly had to wait for when they were Hockey Night in Canada. They would get bumped for Leafs games by CBC even for Vancouver audiences sometimes. There were only a handful of local network Canuck game TV broadcasts per season. Everybody just got used to listening to most of the games on the radio and didn't question it. It didn't seem like they were missing anything...and they weren't really, we are just spoiled now. It was just a bonus if a game was on TV. Jim Robson and Tom Larscheid really brought the games to life. I still don't really care today if a game is HD or not. For stats, the Sun or the Province would run the full league team by team scoring once per week, on Saturday or something. Other than that, it was just check the newspaper and they would list the current top ten scorers in the league as of that day. In the early 90s there was a local sports recap show every night called Sports Page. It's where all of Don Taylor, Dave Randorf, John Shorthouse and several others got their start. They were really young guys back then and it's a show model that doesn't really exist anymore, where some local upstarts become the premier source for a big city's sports audience. The hosts all grew playoff beards for the 94 run...they also had the best music for their sports highlights. I don't know how they even afforded the licensing for the music...or if they even bothered asking. There was Sports Talk or whatever the show was with Dan Russell on the radio that ran for almost 30 years. It was the call in show before there ever were dedicated sports stations like Team 1040 and 1410, a model which itself has now been moved past or failed / become obsolete. The stations that played sports and music back in the day all don't exist anymore. 1040 actually used to be the #1 music station in the city. 650 used to be the oldies music station. Now 1040 has since been reincarnated and failed as a sports station, and 650 is the sports station...for now anyway, as this seems to go through upheaval as often as NHL labor disputes. Edit: I just noticed that you also asked how fans connected back then... They didn't really. You just had people that you already knew who were into hockey and you followed the game with them. There wasn't really any sort of meeting other fans by virtue of being fans. You would just talk hockey with the people you played hockey with, worked with or went to school with...at least those who cared about hockey. But that was most people.
  4. A few more trades from the olden days that came to mind... Ron Sedlbauer for Dave Logan and Harold Philippoff. Sedlbauer was 25 and partway through the season after becoming the first 40 goal scorer in Canucks history. The thing is, he was done a year later, got sent to the minors and never came back, but that was still immediately after a 20 goal season. A trade that just didn't seem to be good for any of the teams or players. The Canucks traded 25 year old Curt Fraser in his prime and shortly after the 1982 run for 19 year old prospect Tony Tanti, who promptly joined the Canucks and became one of very few players in NHL history to have five straight seasons with 39 goals or more. Petri Skriko was 28 when the Canucks moved on from him after being a top scorer for the team throughout the 80s. They got back a 2nd round pick that was used to select Mike Peca. Barry Pederson was also 28 when the Canucks traded him away after a similar run to Skriko. He was a very good player for the Canucks, just maligned for not being Cam Neely. Tony Tanti was also given away in this trade (age 26). The Canucks got back Andrew McBain and Dan Quinn, two good players on the back nine of their careers. Dan Quinn was a notable piece in the trade to then acquire Ronning, Courtnall and Momesso. All in all that's two top scorers to give away in Tanti and Pederson and doesn't seem like a very good deal...but both were done in the league within a couple years and it ended up indirectly providing half of the forward core for the 94 run. I think the team was just trying to change for the sake of change and start a new thing under Linden. Kind of like when the Canucks didn't re-sign Markus Naslund at the end even though he was willing to play good hockey for a moderately low salary. Glen Hanlon was a 23 year old very good goalie for the Canucks, had started 57 games the previous year, been 10th in All Star voting, when he lost the battle for starter with Richard Brodeur in 1981. It was kind of like Luongo / Schneider or Markstrom / Demko where there was a starter more than good enough that replacement wasn't necessary...yet something better had emerged. Hanlon was traded for Tony Currie (solid 20 goal scorer), Rick Heinz (a functional backup), Jim Nill and a 4th round pick. Currie and Nill were both part of the 1982 Cup run. It was a case where the Canucks just had two starter level goalies and at least got some decent stuff for one of them while downgrading to a good enough backup. Hanlon was probably worth more when it's all looked at it in retrospect...he had a very good career, played about 10 more years and got Vezina votes in two of them. Hanlon was also a very good playoff goalie, just stuck on the Rangers and Red Wings every time he was in them so they never got past round two. And I mean he was very good. Despite being on bad teams and never once winning more series than he lost, he twice led the entire NHL in playoff save percentage. The Canucks also later traded Jim Nill for an aging but still decent Peter McNab, which was a pretty good deal. Brian Bradley (represented the Canucks at the all star game) was 26 when he was traded for Tom Kurvers. Tom Kurvers was one of the respectable B-tier offensive defensemen of the time like Doug Crossman or Reed Larson. Kurvers was almost immediately traded to acquire Dave Babych. I guess what's worth noting is that the Canucks managed to recoup notable assets for at least half of their entire 1980s core. Richard Brodeur, Petri Skriko, Barry Pederson, Garth Butcher, Curt Fraser. The only ones that retired or whose contracts ended and went elsewhere or were traded for peanuts that I can think of offhand are Stan Smyl (age), Darcy Rota (injuries), Harold Snepsts (free agent), Thomas Gradin (free agent), Tiger Williams and Doug Lidster (not really a justifiable throw in for a trade and then beat the Canucks as a Ranger in the 94 final). With Tiger Williams, we traded him for a guy that never played a game for us. But I guess it could have been worse. The next two times he was traded before he retired it was once for cash and once literally for "unknown compensation." Richard Brodeur was traded near the end of his final season for Steve Weeks. Worked out pretty well for both teams I guess. Brodeur suited up in the playoffs that year for the Whalers and had one last underdog hurrah stealing them a win against the Montreal Canadiens (when he was supposed to just be the backup and ride off into the sunset). Meanwhile Steve Weeks (also a seasoned veteran though not as old) suited up for the Canucks for a bit of the 1989 series against Calgary and played well (won a game), and that was after probably having the greatest season ever by a Canucks backup right up until Corey Schneider's Jennings Trophy year. Weeks actually got votes for the post-season All Star team as the Canucks backup that season.
  5. I never said that. I don't know. But that's more or less what we did in the off season. And then we did it again for Garland and OEL.
  6. Phil and Tony Esposito were way better than the Sedins in my opinion. Yeah Henri got into the Hall so I forget sometimes about how he got overshadowed. If not for Maurice, Henri would be widely celebrated for all of his Cups as his own individually great player. Keith and Brent Gretzky. I mean...good players for sure in the sense that anyone who gets to that level at all is a good player. But kind of crazy that Rich Sutter was the 6th best Sutter brother and still head and shoulders above the 2nd best Gretzky.
  7. Dave was actually quite good. He didn't really belong with those other brothers. He just never really got a shot as a starter in the NHL but was legitimately great in the WHA, especially in the 78-79 season. Dennis Hull says when he goes to his hometown there's a sign that says Home of Bobby and Dennis Hull. He writes "and Dennis" back onto the sign every time he drives by.
  8. Pete Mahovlich and Dennis Hull are the two guys who really suffered by just having a super awesome brother. They were great players, as opposed to serviceable NHLers like Brett Lindros, Sean Pronger, Scott Thornton, Dave Dryden, etc...
  9. There was good reason to be wowed. I have Pete as one of the guys really overlooked by the Hall of Fame committee. Four Cups, two 100 point seasons (topped out at 117), +72 one season, 82 assists one season. Really was just lacking in total career numbers but also not out of place with guys like Gillies in that regard.
  10. The Canucks have either acquired or traded away the 9th overall pick twice in less than a decade. Once for Schneider, once for OEL / Garland.
  11. What's up playboy, I saw the bat signal. Man the trade of Vaive and Derlago for Tiger Williams (and Jerry Butler) was a big one, but Vaive and Derlago were one year from hitting their prime and their stride. Got us to the 1982 final but Vaive soon had three 50 goal seasons in a row for Toronto and we still never had one in our history until Bure. Derlago had 30-40 goals in four out of five straight years in Toronto. Good example of a trade working out for both sides, but we really gave up some quality... Patrik Sundstrom for Kirk McLean and Greg Adams was a big one. Sundstrom was still a great player and shortly thereafter had probably the best playoff performance in Devils history until Martin Brodeur came along. Don Lever for Ivan Boldirev and Darcy Rota. Lever would be like trading Horvat now, maybe a bigger loss, but the two guys we got were huge in 82 and Rota for the whole first half of the 80s. Dale Tallon for Gary Smith... Tallon wasn't far removed from setting the NHL record for points by a rookie defenseman. Gary Smith almost won the Hart Trophy for us. Dennis Ververgaert for Kevin McCarthy. One of our top scorers for a future captain and one of the team's best defensemen ever. We traded a 25 year old 50 point scoring d-man in Rick Lanz for Jim Benning. I guess it seems kind of like a lateral move because I forget Benning was about the same thing before he came to the Canucks and stopped scoring, but Benning did win Canucks d-man of the year once and Lanz was pretty much finished at 27. Jocelyn Guevremont for Gerry Meehan and Mike Robitaille. Gave up a 23 year old 50 point scoring defenseman...no idea why. Guevremont scored 50 points for Buffalo as well and helped them to the cup final.
  12. Hughes is on pace to have trouble scoring 100 career goals. Dave Babych had 85 after six seasons, 107 after eight. Was looking at his stats... Years 2 through 6 he had 68, 74, 57, 62 and 69 points. And the 57 point season he missed 14 games. Three of those seasons would be the Canucks record.
  13. Quinn was a legend. I already listed all the quality pieces that had to be given up painfully between 1989 and 1994 to get to that game 7. People forget he also did that with an expansion draft and losing Larionov to bad luck / outside policies. Imagine if Krutov had come over and played like Makarov instead of like...I dunno, Jake Virtanen.
  14. Paul Coffey Dino Ciccarelli Mike Gartner Larry Murphy Doug Gilmour Joe Mullen Pat LaFontaine Bernie Nicholls Pierre Turgeon Chris Chelios Patrick Roy Dave Babych Jimmy Carson Phil Housley Dale Hawerchuk Trevor Linden Kirk Muller Stephane Richer Tom Barrasso Gary Suter Roberto Luongo Dave Andreychuk Marcel Dionne Denis Savard
  15. Yeah we had Carson when he was 25 but he was completely finished by that age...watched the 94 run from the press box. At age 25 Gary Leeman went from 51 goals and 95 points to 29 points the next year...completely finished by the time we had him at 30.
  16. Yeah people forget that from 1989 (Linden's first game 7) to 1994, the team lost or traded all of Nedved, Janney, Larionov, Krutov, Snepsts, Reinhart, Butcher, Quinn, Smyl, Tanti, Skriko, Lidster, Barry Pederson, Bradley, Sandlak, etc. They didn't just play fantasy hockey and keep adding piece after piece at no cost. Also flirted with Gamble as the starter and may well have taken a decent trade offer for McLean around 1991.
  17. Yeah but Calder aside, Myers' rookie year was his best by >10 points and his second year still remains his second best. As to Raycroft, yeah I just figured you wouldn't want to hear about goalies. Jim Carey comes to mind. Jordan Binnington, Daren Puppa. Rozer Crozier if you want to go way way back. Ed Belfour too... I guess Corey Hirsch and Troy Gamble as well...
  18. Rob Brown's another one. Had 115 points or something in his second or third year, then never came close again and was a career minor leaguer until a little comeback at the end. Tyler Myers...
  19. I was stunned at how things turned out for Hodge. He flamed out of the NHL in three years, with a top line NHL pedigree in his bloodline to boot. I would have probably traded some good stuff for him if I were a GM in 1991.
  20. Darryl Sutter, Joe Juneau, Jimmy Carson, Ken Hodge Jr. come to mind. But there aren't a ton of them by any stretch.
  21. Pretty rough on ol' Jim but that last sentence is one of the best zingers I've seen on here. Maybe it can hang next to the bra from Cowan's lady friend.
  22. Well I didn't say he lost either. I would just call the whole thing a Mulligan. If you make two winning trades I kind of think you come ahead better than your starting position twice over, not tread water. He's either better than a 3rd rounder or he's not. He's not better than one and then worse than one. And how it looks on paper is kind of the opposite of what judging the trade results in the real world as per the thread is about.
  23. I don't know...if you're counting Schmidt as a win twice I think you're probably leaning a bit toward favoring Benning.
  24. Trottier's probably the all time great in that regard. Two more Cups at the end as a defensive character guy. Corey Perry the new Marian Hossa for making it to the final with a different team every year but as an old role player who can still do a late career Linden and chip in a goal when it matters. Watched a lot of the greats do what it took to stay in the game. Smyl, including giving up his C to nobody at all when he wasn't an every day player anymore. Paul Coffey took just about every indignity to stay in the league...he was getting healthy scratched when he was still NHL worthy. And the goalies...Beaupre, Barrasso, Joseph, McLean, King Richard (snuck in some last playoff heroics his final bit of a season with the Whalers).
  25. That team would have been unbreakable. They were both there for the 1989 playoffs where they took the Cup champs to game 7 OT but Trevor was at about 85 or 90% on the way up and Stan had dropped to about 40% with age.
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