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Everything posted by Kevin Biestra
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Victor Salva (the director of Jeepers Creepers) raped a kid actor and filmed it while making a movie years beforehand. Didn't stop him from making Jeepers Creepers and when everything was public knowledge...he took a handful of years off and then made more movies. Heh, like I said...I don't look to corporations or any segment of the entertainment industry for moral guidance. As we speak, people are watching movies filled with people who had similar knowledge and culpability to the Hawks staff when it came to Harvey Weinstein. Not only does everyone continue to watch their movies, but they listen to them about political and medical and other issues that have nothing to do with filmmaking. Anyway, I don't know what's appropriate for Quenneville. I haven't settled on a position on that particular issue yet.
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As to the first bolded portion...let's not be silly. He is getting a big payout either awarded by the courts or if he chooses to settle beforehand. On top of that, a reputable firm just did a substantial portion of his evidence collection and authentication pro bono in the report for the Hawks. On top of that, reputable firms would likely take on Beach's case on contingency or perhaps even for free altogether due to the profile and human interest involved. I think the Hawks can and should face NHL consequences but my point is that I don't really care a great deal how Gary Bettman opts to administer the type of justice that courts administer...for several reasons. One, Bettman is an amoral jerk. Two, he has little to no expertise in justice and restitution aside from matters particular to intra-NHL competition issues. Three, I don't look to entertainment corporations and their executives as leaders in the area. And perhaps most importantly, FOUR, any money that Beach gets from any NHL awards could theoretically reduce his award in his court case by a corresponding amount. As to the second bolded portion, I do understand the gravity, but I also understand how little it helps Beach for me to simply join a social media chorus and contest where every person says "I think it's more horrible" and then the next person says "no I think it's more horrible." One person says fine the Hawks two million, the next says no a hundred million, the next says no rescind the franchise altogether, the next says no execute Joel Quenneville and hang his body parts in the four corners of the country and then the angriest (and thus most moral of us all on social media) says no we must fashion a rocket that will blow up the sun and if you don't agree then you don't care about sexual assault. So instead I say no I would rather think about it for more than one day and find pertinent solutions and place most of my focus on things that will either provide restitution to Kyle Beach or prevent / avoid future situations like this in a practical manner. I am not as interested as you are in "big opportunities" to step up and proclaim to the world how much I'm super duper on the right side of the issue, even more than everyone else is. It's really easy to get on social media or a message board and say we're the most against sexual assault, way more than everyone else. It's also pretty darn easy to fine somebody else's money and then give their money away to show that we're the most against sexual assault. Okay fine, make the proclamations and transfer the money. I haven't argued against either of those. But as I have said before, neither does a lot in the real world to make a difference for Kyle Beach so I'm less interested in the moral grandstanding, and the patting each other on the back for all agreeing that this is awful, and I would like to see solutions that are practical and reasonable and pertinent to the issue and also which won't be struck down in court somewhere down the road (which you may well be looking at if the NHL fines the Hawks a hundred million dollars).
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It is relevant to show that who is taking it seriously? Whether Quenneville gets paid is a matter of contract law between Quenneville and the Panthers. As to your next sentence, 90% of what you are witnessing right now is a PR exercise. I wouldn't recommend looking toward entertainment corporations for moral guidance and the execution of principled justice unbiased by revenue and customer backlash and so on. As to abusers coming out with everything intact. Yeah it happens. Similar claims exist against Biden, against Clinton. But what I have been saying in these threads is that the important justice is going to be administered by the civil and criminal courts, not by Gary Bettman. So far all I have seen on here is people wanting more intra-NHL transfers of money and draft picks. For all the back and forth about how a $2M fine by the NHL isn't enough, and how they need to take away X draft picks instead of Y draft picks, nobody has asked whether Aldrich has been or can be arrested for the assault against Beach.
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As to the first sentence, by what mechanism do you think that would prevent a law suit? As to the second question...what you call the real one...does it really matter that much? Does it substantially affect Kyle Beach whether the Florida Panthers' money goes to themselves or Quenneville? I would imagine that whether Quenneville etc. get paid under their contracts would likely come down to the language and termination clauses, but that matter is pretty low on my list of concerns about the whole thing. To be honest, it's probably better for Beach that Quenneville gets paid anyway. He has grounds for a lawsuit against Quenneville. He has no cause of action against the Florida Panthers.
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Maybe. But people forget that there are civil and criminal courts that specialize in justice...and I'm more interested in seeing things play out there, where I think it likely Beach will get a large sum from the Hawks and perhaps also some individuals, and at least one person is likely to face criminal consequences. I'm honestly not all that fussed about what the NHL does or doesn't do in addition to that. The courts will handle the financial penalties. I don't look to Gary Bettman as a figure to administer justice in our society. As to the draft picks...foregoing a year of drafting. Sure, I'm not opposed. I'd have to think about what is appropriate in terms of imposing any competitive disadvantages going forward, and probably after more than one night's sleep on the matter. But as to financial transfers from the Hawks to the NHL, to be honest I don't really care. It basically boils down to Gary Bettman and some fairly amoral CEOs saying "I'm going to take or spend somebody else's money to show you how moral I am." If he takes less of it we boo, if he takes more of it we cheer, and meanwhile it has no bearing on whether Aldrich goes to prison or whether Beach can pay his mortgage. The courts are specialists in justice and I trust their ability to administer it more than I trust Gary Bettman. I'm actually opposed to removing people from the record book, if by that you mean something like erasing Toews' points or Quenneville's wins from the official record. I don't think that's the way to go in most matters like this. What happened on the ice or the field happened, and whether it was accomplished by Joel Quenneville, Pete Rose, OJ Simpson or whomever, I'm generally not for pretending it didn't happen because it was later found to be distasteful.
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How much additional punishment do you expect the NHL to exact on the Blackhawks in addition to the theoretically complete justice the courts are expected to exact for Beach? Everybody is claiming how insufficient the penalties are when the truth is the justice process between Beach and the team and/or offenders has barely even commenced. I mean, there will probably be some draft picks taken as well and I'm not opposed to that, but as to financial matters. I really don't care a great deal how much money gets transferred from the Hawks to the league. I am interested in what gets transferred by a judge or jury from the Hawks and/or responsible personnel to Beach, and any relevant criminal penalties. The NHL is essentially an entertainment corporation. I don't look to them as a primary source for justice in the world.
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He is going to be answering questions in a civil trial / depositions and possibly even criminal ones based on his letter of recommendation. To be honest it would be foolish for him to be holding press conferences and spilling his guts about every particular. He is out of the game and the more important procedures for justice are on the way down the road. People - fans and media - are focusing a little too much on instant gratification right now. His answers are owed to Kyle Beach in court, not to us in the media.
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Antitrust exemptions or no, they are still subject to contract law, labor law, and a swath of other aspects where a reasonable standard is implied, and where lawsuits or arbitration will take place when it isn't met or that matter is in question. Your last post here does seem to actually narrow the net you were originally casting, so that it is now more limited to people who actually would arguably have some sort of duty to act. Even still, Beach himself wonders what the duty of the NHLPA would be to him when he never played an NHL game and he is correct to wonder. It is a point that would and probably will be argued by both sides. Again, my point is that you have to be thoughtful when actually imposing a duty on people to do something (e.g. report a story to an outside party, take a stand against your superiors) or else be punished, as opposed to simply punishing them for demonstrable positive acts of wrongdoing. In the real world I don't really think it is just to ban some AHL tweener or equipment manager because they heard this story and thought it to be true, and didn't do whatever might seem at the moment to be the heroic thing that everybody is now saying they would have done as a Monday morning quarterback.
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Again, I have to say no. If some low level hockey player or equipment manager actually knew this happened, what is his duty then in order to avoid this ban? Aside from your now demanding that they become a self sacrificial hero that throws his own career in jeopardy against the overpowering machinery of the corporation that scared Beach himself, you are also requiring them to go public with the story without Beach's own consent. You seem to be requiring a violation of Beach's privacy and decision making autonomy about how to proceed. I get that you and I and others are angry, but the remedies need to be reasonable in practice.
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I think the bolded part of your first paragraph is going too far, certainly with respect to the current scenario. It is one thing to punish morally culpable people, it is another to force a duty upon them to be heroes or detectives. I don't think some player on the Hawks who did nothing more than hear a rumor should be punished, banned, etc. If you were actually involved in enabling sexual assault or further traumatizing a victim, then yes, off with your head. If you're some guy trying to make the 4th line and maybe you heard some story that might or might not be true about some other guy maybe doing something or maybe not...what does your proposed punishment now expect of this random hockey player in order to not be banned for life?
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That's not impossible, but what makes you so certain? So Boynton and Sopel go spill the beans about Kyle Beach's homosexual assault story...now what. Maybe Beach clams up, denies it, never pursues it at all. Maybe he's mad as hell, saying he wanted to deal with it in house and now instead Sopel and Boynton have his personal life in the news. Who knows how it plays out, but however it plays out, it's not on Beach's chosen timeline. Boynton and Sopel waited for Beach to go as public as he wanted and then supported him when he did. As for your predicted guarantee that Aldrich ends up in jail... No, far from certain. You are making several assumptions.
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Would Aldrich have been out of the hockey world? What jurisdiction does the NHLPA have over the other leagues where Aldrich went on to coach and offend? Would it have prevented those crimes? On top of which, apparently Fehr did know and knowledge of the NHLPA didn't hinge at all on other Hawks players speaking up. Also...isn't it paramount whether Kyle Beach wanted them to speak up to outside parties? Is it automatically the best for Kyle Beach to go around telling a story that ends with him ejaculating in another man's mouth to any of reporters, players' union, other players, etc.? Would or should they do so before the day that Beach himself decides to go public with the matter, which is the point at which they then spoke up. And even when Beach went public, he did it anonymously until today. It seems like what you are suggesting doesn't really account for what Beach wants at the time. Hey sit back Kyle, we got this, we know what's best for you...
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I think the optics are not only fine but actually positive. I think it's good to honor players and teams that would otherwise be forgotten by today's fans. The superstitious argument is actually slightly more persuasive for me.