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Its's clear to me year in and year out that you need guys that can purely score goals to succeed in the playoffs. boeser, even while going through hell in his personal life, provides that for the team. and probably brings it better than anyone else in that attribute when he's on. this is a guy you don't trade away before he's even hit his peak. if jr and alvinn do what they are capable of and paid millions a year for, they'll find a way to keep all our important pieces.

30-13-8 under Bruce and our brain dead media and half the fan base wants to blow this team up

I'm not aware of details, but when I google "Jim Rutherford draft picks Pittsburgh", this is what shows up from an article written in 2021: There are only five players that have been drafted in Jim Rutherford’s entire time as the Penguins GM that have played for the Penguins. Dominik Simon (173 games), Sam Lafferty (53 games), Daniel Sprong (42 games) and Anthony Angello (8 games). The outlier here is Kasperi Kapanen who was drafted by Rutherford, traded in the Kessel trade and then brought back at the expense of another". Pretty damn brutal. Also cannot find any notable prospects JR and PA drafted in Pittsburgh, if someone can point out any late round picks highly coveted right now picked by this regime, I'd be happy to know. These guys are also infamous for trading a first for Jason Zucker lol, and here people had meltdowns when we traded a first for JT Miller. Not to mention JR's signing of players like Jack Johnson and a number of others to pretty awful anchor contracts. But then again, can't argue with the cups right, so I'll give these two the benefit of the doubt for at least a year and see what kind of shape the team is in by December 2022. Since day 1 I've cautiously stayed off the hype train though because the last few years of JR's tenure in Pittsburgh had unanimous disapproval.

I'm not aware of details, but when I google "Jim Rutherford draft picks Pittsburgh", this is what shows up from an article written in 2021: There are only five players that have been drafted in Jim Rutherford’s entire time as the Penguins GM that have played for the Penguins. Dominik Simon (173 games), Sam Lafferty (53 games), Daniel Sprong (42 games) and Anthony Angello (8 games). The outlier here is Kasperi Kapanen who was drafted by Rutherford, traded in the Kessel trade and then brought back at the expense of another". Pretty damn brutal. Also cannot find any notable prospects JR and PA drafted in Pittsburgh, if someone can point out any late round picks highly coveted right now picked by this regime, I'd be happy to know. These guys are also infamous for trading a first for Jason Zucker lol, and here people had meltdowns when we traded a first for JT Miller. Not to mention JR's signing of players like Jack Johnson and a number of others to pretty awful anchor contracts. But then again, can't argue with the cups right, so I'll give these two the benefit of the doubt for at least a year and see what kind of shape the team is in by December 2022. Since day 1 I've cautiously stayed off the hype train though because the last few years of JR's tenure in Pittsburgh had unanimous disapproval.

Fair enough, where I saw Motte's utility the most was his effort in eating tough minutes and being really good at that. His chemistry with Highmore and Lummiko was also making that line very dangerous in many different situations, making not just Motte but his linemates very effective as well. Richardson on the other hand, while having good attributes, is still a question mark, as to what he will actually end up bringing to the team. Last game he hardly played the third period which was not such a great sign. I hope we see the better sides to his game in upcoming match ups, otherwise there will be a big hole in the bottom 6 that may end up affecting certain dynamics of the team in quite a negative way. But I hope I'm wrong and Richardson ends up becoming a more than capable replacement for Motte.

I definitely agree with the latter, trading Hamonic and acquiring Dermott was a solid move. As for Motte, I feel he's a much better player than Richardson, and not having him down the stretch, especially given our injury situation right now, does have the possibility of negatively impacting the team. Motte ate tough minutes against the opponent's toughest players, while providing reasonable offense. Richardson, although a decent player, is a waiver wire pick up and at best provides maybe 50% of what Motte did. Our shot at the playoffs, and shutting down opponents if and when we make it, improves substantially with Motte in the lineup than without. And given that we are right in the thick of contention for the playoffs, trading him for a 4th seems unnecessary and questionable. As much as I liked Motte and dislike him being traded, he's gone now and I just hope that 4th rounder is worthwhile in whichever way. And hopefully, our management shows some more belief in our players and their ability to prevail as a group going forward.

Lol great dodge there bud, and I'm sure that's not where you stopped reading. Funny how you can dish out whatever you want, but cannot take something as simple as me stating I won't be able to reason with you on a point because we have drastically different perspectives. Convenient cop out at this point from writing any factually valid rebuttal to my last post. Oh well, have a good one man and lay off the negativity a bit, especially when no numbers pertaining to the team back it up.

Ok well first, I'll state again that I won't be able to reason with you on the one point in contention, which is our very different perspective on the character of this team. You've underscored the fact you think this team is overall incompetent and isn't owed any leverage with statements such as "They shart the bed every second game", "You're blind to the failures of this team", "You believe the team is OWED a chance to squeak into the playoffs" and a few more, while the facts point to a completely different reality. Truth is, the Canucks have been a top 10 team in the league in points percentage since BB took over, dug themselves out of a massive hole Green and Co. put them under, and have consistently beaten juggernaut teams to get to a point where they can realistically make the playoffs. Here are some numbers you can reflect on: 24-11-7 under BB and 7th in the league in standings since he took over. That's over half of a season of superb play (also covering a period of Covid related challenges). Follow this link to read further: https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/standings/standings.php?v=l&s=pts&so=d&ha=all&sd=2021-12-06&ed=2022-03-28 You know what this information does? Unequivocally denounces your false takes quoted earlier. There's no bed sharting or failures happening here, this is a very solid team being underrated and overlooked by a huge section of its own fans for some really strange reason. Hard to understand the psychology of this fan base. I like the Hamonic trade and the Dermott pick up, but I believe the team would hugely benefit from still having Motte around, especially given the injuries to the bottom 6 right now. Trading him was unnecessary and the return was negligible. You said this is a bare minimum move and something the regime did for their credibility, and although interpreted differently, I agree with you here, as it seems like this is something the regime did under pressure for itself and not for the team. I really did not intend to spend so much time on this thread, but at the very least I hope this discourse gives you reason to reflect on numbers and objective information before reducing the team to bed sharters, failures and such. This team and city could do well by having a more well informed and positive fan base, especially when they have been battling and playing with the amount of heart that they have for the past 4 months.

The "let's trade Miller and rebuild for another 5-6 years" brigade is awfully quiet these days lol. Guys like Miller don't come around often, we're lucky to have him. His leadership and mindset have permeated throughout the team, and become even more prevalent as the season goes along and the team piles up wins. Will be cheering for him to at least tie my all time favorite Canuck's 97 points.

I fundamentally disagree with you on everything you have said. These last three games, let alone how the team responded with BB as coach after Green's debacle, shows enough evidence of this team's character to me. If you call any of this sharting the bed every second game, I know for certain that I will not be able to reason with you in any way. And as for the trade, it would be really nice to still have Motte down this last 17 game stretch. This was an unnecessary trade, but I guess hopefully the 4th rounder works out in 4-5 years from now.

Lol dude read the 3 previous posts that I've written, including the one you quoted, where I've stated my complete opinion. Cheers.

Fair enough, you have a valid point as well. I overall saw more value in keeping Motte despite the likelihood of losing him in free agency, but so be it now. I hope this all leads to a more elaborately executed plan in the off season, that's going to be the management's real test.

I guess the part where I've said that Motte should've been kept until the end of the season flew right past your head, nowhere have I mentioned anything about resigning him at any amount. I'll reiterate that what bothers me about this trade is that Allvin chose a 4th rounder over team morale and chemistry. This is a close knit group, you don't have to be anyone's relative to figure that out; it's been said by the players and BB themselves. Taking a key member of that group out for a 4th rounder while they believe they can fight for the playoffs is not a good look. Everyone whined about the previous regime's supposed effect on team morale and now those same people seem to be justifying this move as something progressive.

That's some really wishful thinking, unfortunately. Bottom line is that this Motte trade was completely unnecessary, you do not shake up the locker room and send a completely random signal to a close knit group for a 4th rounder. JR and Allvin better pull some magic in the off season because this TDL was pretty brutal.

Aside from the extremely underwhelming position the team is in post the TDL, it's also concerning that Allvin decided to f up team chemistry for a 4th round pick. Motte was an important part of a close knit group that was still fighting despite their challenges. Way to send a message to your group. I hope the summer turns out to be much better for this management team, and I will wait until then to fully assess them, but this TDL is a huge facepalm.

Classic human behavior. Most people are wired to grow wary and tired of something old and then completely hype up the new shiny toy, regardless of what facts point out to. Happens all the time in politics, entertainment, and in this case, sports. There's tons of interesting literature on this if you're interested in the topic. And regarding our management, won't be long till these heroes are run out of town and a new regime is hyped up in a similar manner.

This trade seems so pointless. Why not just keep Motte at this point when he has an important role on the team. What kind of message is this sending to the players? Before someone comes in with the aSsEt mAnaGeMenT argument, please tell me the last time a 4th rounder turned into anything worthwhile. Ideally we keep Motte till the end of the season and let the team battle it out, and let him walk at the end of it if the price of resigning him is too high. A 4th is negligible, this trade as a whole just seems so random and unnecessary.

Pathetic lol. Not surprising though based on the kinds of trade this group made back in Pittsburgh. And this entire board was literally bowing down to the feet of JR and Allvin before they'd done a single thing.

The Benning hate gives a really shocking revelation into the psychology of most people. They have zero sense of objectivity and really take on the mob/sheeple form of spreading hate and negativity towards the guy. His strengths get ignored or credited to other people and he's perpetually crucified for his mistakes. I also find it appalling at the amount of hate that's built on just hearsay, and not actual researched facts or circumstances about the events that took place regarding certain trades, signings and draft picks. It's honestly embarrassing being a Canucks fan sometimes just on a human level. I'd hate to ever be employed by the team just based off of the toxicity the media and our own fans spread on a daily basis. No other fan base, besides maybe the Habs, comes close to this repulsive level. Anyways, cheers to the fans who look at the team and it's personnel through an unbiased, properly researched and humane lens, I hope along with the team our fan base also gets a rehabilitated look.

To be this offensively competent while missing Petey is a great insight into this team's strengths. We are also much better defensively than majority of people will ever give our team credit for, despite the apparent evidence. Proud of this team and their formidable character. To climb back 1 point away from a playoff spot is incredible, especially when the entire league, media and your own "fan" base has written you off (and is incessantly bickering about trading everyone away). Beyond applaudable stuff imo. Knew since day 1 this is what they were capable of under a professional coach, damn proud to be cheering for this group.

But according to our media and fanbase, we're not a playoff team, Benning destroyed everything, and we need to trade our core for RHD and mid- late 1st round picks. Glad stats like this give some perspective to some of these preposterous takes & narratives we have to come across all day.

I understand where you're coming from, but there's more to the situation than what we see by the numbers. Any team landing Miller has to look at the cost of resigning him. No one is giving up such a significant amount of their future for potentially just one playoff run. Can they fit him under the cap after one more year with his upgraded cap hit? That's a tough thing to gauge for any team. Whoever is trading for Miller is in a win now mode, and is probably already close to the cap. Which means they'll have to either trade him again very soon once his contract is running out, to keep their core together, or resign him while getting rid of a piece of their current core, which is probably not something that will be easy to do as those players are already most likely on big money contracts. Adding Miller will improve any team, but can also shake the balance of how it is built once his contract is up for renegotiation. Any team trading for Miller right now would also have to have cap room to accommodate his current $5.5m in cap, which at the end of the day is a substantial number. With these factors considered, does any team depart with their A grade prospects ,1st round draft pick & roster players to land JT Miller? It is not as straight forward as it seems.

I simply quoted the information that was available at that time, I don't know why you're deciding on my behalf on what my intention was with that post. I do agree though, the return you mentioned is what the Canucks need to ask for to make the trade talks worthwhile. But whether or not that happens is a big question mark. Miller is also at a cap hit $1m higher than Toffoli, and is due for a bigger contract soon. Is any potential trade partner willing to take on everything adding Miller to their team brings, while giving up enormous pieces of their future? A lot of nuanced variables are in place that will take serious contemplation before anyone pulls the trigger parting with a prospect like Laf, another A tier prospect, and a first, among other pieces. I could very well be wrong but I highly doubt a trade of that level happens.

Same here, 99% of the Miller trade proposals I see around here just sound like straight up fantasy to me. There is zero past precedent based in reality, where a team that is currently in need for a player like Miller gives up close to what the fan base is expecting. And I agree, it would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it either. And furthermore, I see more use in keeping Miller overall.

Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound? - a conditional 1st rounder - Pitlick (pending UFA) - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020) - 5 rounder (negligible) Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting?