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Posts posted by 13231

  1. Its's clear to me year in and year out that you need guys that can purely score goals to succeed in the playoffs. boeser, even while going through hell in his personal life, provides that for the team. and probably brings it better than anyone else in that attribute when he's on. this is a guy you don't trade away before he's even hit his peak. if jr and alvinn do what they are capable of and paid millions a year for, they'll find a way to keep all our important pieces. 

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  2. 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

    What worries me is that JR and PA’s track record for drafting hasn’t been great when they were in Pitts, right? And their drafting in later rounds is worse, from what I know. 


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    I'm not aware of details, but when I google "Jim Rutherford draft picks Pittsburgh", this is what shows up from an article written in 2021: 

     

    There are only five players that have been drafted in Jim Rutherford’s entire time as the Penguins GM that have played for the Penguins. Dominik Simon (173 games), Sam Lafferty (53 games), Daniel Sprong (42 games) and Anthony Angello (8 games). The outlier here is Kasperi Kapanen who was drafted by Rutherford, traded in the Kessel trade and then brought back at the expense of another". 

     

    Pretty damn brutal. Also cannot find any notable prospects JR and PA drafted in Pittsburgh, if someone can point out any late round picks highly coveted right now picked by this regime, I'd be happy to know. 

     

    These guys are also infamous for trading a first for Jason Zucker lol, and here people had meltdowns when we traded a first for JT Miller. Not to mention JR's signing of players like Jack Johnson and a number of others to pretty awful anchor contracts. But then again, can't argue with the cups right, so I'll give these two the benefit of the doubt for at least a year and see what kind of shape the team is in by December 2022. Since day 1 I've cautiously stayed off the hype train though because the last few years of JR's tenure in Pittsburgh had unanimous disapproval. 

  3. 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

    I’d be willing to give Dickinson another try next season, maybe he can regain form. This season, your right, is an odd one for the team. 

    I'm not aware of details, but when I google "Jim Rutherford draft picks Pittsburgh", this is what shows up from an article written in 2021: 

     

    There are only five players that have been drafted in Jim Rutherford’s entire time as the Penguins GM that have played for the Penguins. Dominik Simon (173 games), Sam Lafferty (53 games), Daniel Sprong (42 games) and Anthony Angello (8 games). The outlier here is Kasperi Kapanen who was drafted by Rutherford, traded in the Kessel trade and then brought back at the expense of another". 

     

    Pretty damn brutal. Also cannot find any notable prospects JR and PA drafted in Pittsburgh, if someone can point out any late round picks highly coveted right now picked by this regime, I'd be happy to know. 

     

    These guys are also infamous for trading a first for Jason Zucker lol, and here people had meltdowns when we traded a first for JT Miller. Not to mention JR's signing of players like Jack Johnson and a number of others to pretty awful anchor contracts. But then again, can't argue with the cups right, so I'll give these two the benefit of the doubt for at least a year and see what kind of shape the team is in by December 2022. Since day 1 I've cautiously stayed off the hype train though because the last few years of JR's tenure in Pittsburgh had unanimous disapproval. 

  4. 35 minutes ago, Baggins said:

    I didn't see moving Motte as hugely jeopardizing the playoff chances at all. The playoffs are still slim regardless. Motte is a relatively minor piece of the bigger picture. Particularly picking up Richardson to fill in. No, Richardson isn't as good. But he's not an earth shattering downgrade either. It's not like he's replacing Boeser or Miller. Even with Motte gone and Richardson in, we've picked up 5 of 6 points against some pretty good teams while on the road. The 4th holds more value than the slim difference between Motte and Richardson for the balance of the season. Richardson is still pretty fast, defensively responsible, a pk'er, excellent at faceoffs (59.8% on the season), and is actually higher than Motte in hits per 60 minutes played this season. So is he really the 50% downgrade you believe? The only real Motte advantage, and actual 50% of Motte equivelant, is Motte produces a little more offensively, He isn't exactly a high producer anyway though at .31 pts per game to Richardson's .15 per game. Does Richardson's faceoff ability make up for Motte's marginally higher production? I get Motte is well liked, but like I said, it's not an earth shattering downgrade. Overall this was a smart move.

    Fair enough, where I saw Motte's utility the most was his effort in eating tough minutes and being really good at that. His chemistry with Highmore and Lummiko was also making that line very dangerous in many different situations, making not just Motte but his linemates very effective as well. Richardson on the other hand, while having good attributes, is still a question mark, as to what he will actually end up bringing to the team. Last game he hardly played the third period which was not such a great sign. I hope we see the better sides to his game in upcoming match ups, otherwise there will be a big hole in the bottom 6 that may end up affecting certain dynamics of the team in quite a negative way. But I hope I'm wrong and Richardson ends up becoming a more than capable replacement for Motte. 

  5. 3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

    It doesn't really matter if the 4th pans out at all. The team is still in the playoff hunt even if a longshot to make it. Moving Motte for an asset was the smart move. Picking up Richardson for free, who can play wing or C equally well, not only assists in maintaining the playoff hunt it also maintains our player depth. Moving Motte also saves the cap space his increased new deal would have cost for next year. A 1m replacement for next season, very possibly Lockwood, saves around 1.5 million on what Motte would have cost next season. In the end the teams chance at the playoffs isn't highly damaged, player depth was maintained, and an asset acquired. That's a win. The longshot draft pick is better than no shot at all when Motte walked away. The very worst case scenario is a status quo - the 4th turning out to be the nothing we would get when Motte walked. The flipside is that 4th can be used in a trade for an NHL player, or the draft pick is used and pans out to be an NHL player. Sure it would be 'nice' to have Motte for the few games remaining. Unfortunately 'nice' made no sense at all. Particularly when Richardson became available as a free as a replacement.

     

    Just as trading Hamonic for a third and then flipping the third for Dermott was a win. Dermott is younger, has the versatility to play either side, maintained D depth for a shot at the playoffs, and opened up an extra 1.5m cap space for next season. That's also a win.

     

    The bottom line: Our playoff chances haven't been seriously hampered, our D got younger, we added a draft pick, and saved cap for next year. I call that a trade deadline win.

    I definitely agree with the latter, trading Hamonic and acquiring Dermott was a solid move.

     

    As for Motte, I feel he's a much better player than Richardson, and not having him down the stretch, especially given our injury situation right now, does have the possibility of negatively impacting the team. Motte ate tough minutes against the opponent's toughest players, while providing reasonable offense. Richardson, although a decent player, is a waiver wire pick up and at best provides maybe 50% of what Motte did. Our shot at the playoffs, and shutting down opponents if and when we make it, improves substantially with Motte in the lineup than without. And given that we are right in the thick of contention for the playoffs, trading him for a 4th seems unnecessary and questionable. 

     

    As much as I liked Motte and dislike him being traded, he's gone now and I just hope that 4th rounder is worthwhile in whichever way. And hopefully, our management shows some more belief in our players and their ability to prevail as a group going forward. 

  6. 43 minutes ago, lmm said:

    I stopped reading about here

    your commitment to failure is reason enough for me to stop

    bye

    Lol great dodge there bud, and I'm sure that's not where you stopped reading. Funny how you can dish out whatever you want, but cannot take something as simple as me stating I won't be able to reason with you on a point because we have drastically different perspectives. Convenient cop out at this point from writing any factually valid rebuttal to my last post. Oh well, have a good one man and lay off the negativity a bit, especially when no numbers pertaining to the team back it up. 

  7. 8 hours ago, lmm said:

    Its OK that we fundamentally disagree

    You believe 17 games of Motte (even if he is not resigned, {from another post}) is worth more than the return

    you believe this group is "OWED" the chance to try and squeak into the playoffs

    You seem blind to the failures of this group, and blind to the number of times they come out cold or fail against bottom dwellers

    That is all fine, and I disagree with all those point

    but it is ironic that you have already thrown in the towel with regards to reasoning with me, because if you can't and won't even try to reason, way would anyone care to listen?

     

    Take canucklehead below

    that is a very reasoned response 

    makes me rethink my initial score of 2/10

    based on canuckle's post, I think I'll change my vote to 4/10

    I still think they should have done more, but what they did do was good 

    More for 132

    here are a couple of points that you might have missed

    1 If the Canucks are embarking on a culture change, that includes changes in the way the team is managed.

    It has been said that Motte and the management were not close to a deal

    if true, is management giving the team the right signal by retaining Motte for 17 games, and losing him for nothing, (old management style)

    or

    does management make a bigger statement by off loading Motte to message the other FAs that this management group is not afraid to cut loose players who over value their services?

     

    2 You bring up the last 3 games.

    the last 3 games show that this team does not need Motte as desperately as some might think, ( the whole is bigger than the one)

     

    3 Management needed to make some statement this deadline.

    They could not very well come in, retool the front office for 3 months then say "You know what, Ol Jimmer put together a pretty good squad"

    that would have been very bad for their credibility.

    Trading Motte was a bare minimum move

     

    canuckle

    nice post I upped my score based on this response

    Ok well first, I'll state again that I won't be able to reason with you on the one point in contention, which is our very different perspective on the character of this team. You've underscored the fact you think this team is overall incompetent and isn't owed any leverage with statements such as "They shart the bed every second game", "You're blind to the failures of this team", "You believe the team is OWED a chance to squeak into the playoffs" and a few more, while the facts point to a completely different reality. Truth is, the Canucks have been a top 10 team in the league in points percentage since BB took over, dug themselves out of a massive hole Green and Co. put them under, and have consistently beaten juggernaut teams to get to a point where they can realistically make the playoffs.

     

    Here are some numbers you can reflect on: 24-11-7 under BB and 7th in the league in standings since he took over. That's over half of a season of superb play (also covering a period of Covid related challenges). Follow this link to read further: https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/standings/standings.php?v=l&s=pts&so=d&ha=all&sd=2021-12-06&ed=2022-03-28

     

    You know what this information does? Unequivocally denounces your false takes quoted earlier. There's no bed sharting or failures happening here, this is a very solid team being underrated and overlooked by a huge section of its own fans for some really strange reason. Hard to understand the psychology of this fan base. 

     

    I like the Hamonic trade and the Dermott pick up, but I believe the team would hugely benefit from still having Motte around, especially given the injuries to the bottom 6 right now. Trading him was unnecessary and the return was negligible. You said this is a bare minimum move and something the regime did for their credibility, and although interpreted differently, I agree with you here, as it seems like this is something the regime did under pressure for itself and not for the team. 

     

    I really did not intend to spend so much time on this thread, but at the very least I hope this discourse gives you reason to reflect on numbers and objective information before reducing the team to bed sharters, failures and such. This team and city could do well by having a more well informed and positive fan base, especially when they have been battling and playing with the amount of heart that they have for the past 4 months. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  8. On 3/22/2022 at 9:05 AM, lmm said:

    whaat?

    where did you get that from? You do not shake up a locker room of a team that sharts the bed every second game?

    this is a locker room that got their last coach fired and is not responding consistently to the new coach

    If you don't trade guys off this roster why not sign them all to NM contracts?

    this roster has received more than they have earned

    I fundamentally disagree with you on everything you have said. These last three games, let alone how the team responded with BB as coach after Green's debacle, shows enough evidence of this team's character to me. If you call any of this sharting the bed every second game, I know for certain that I will not be able to reason with you in any way. And as for the trade, it would be really nice to still have Motte down this last 17 game stretch. This was an unnecessary trade, but I guess hopefully the 4th rounder works out in 4-5 years from now. 

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  9. 13 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

    You do realize that waiting till the end of the season would have resulted in him likely walking to free agency and getting nothing in return. His value to a contender goes to zero once the trade deadline has passed. Best to trade him now while they can still get something in return for him

     

    Lol dude read the 3 previous posts that I've written, including the one you quoted, where I've stated my complete opinion. Cheers. 

  10. 5 minutes ago, RWJC said:

    I totally understand and agree with the chemistry/character part. I do. I don’t like losing him.

     

    but this is business.

     

    if Motte walked in the offseason and signed a reasonable contract elsewhere, ppl would be saying it’s the same $hit JB allowed to happen with some of our core.

     

    you have to get value when there is uncertainty. Had the whole year to sign to a new deal but it didn’t happen. Congrats to him for upping his value and it’s a definite blow to the room for the short term, but this is also a signal to the rest of the roster that almost anyone is up for trade. That room does need a shake up. This was a start.

    Fair enough, you have a valid point as well. I overall saw more value in keeping Motte despite the likelihood of losing him in free agency, but so be it now. I hope this all leads to a more elaborately executed plan in the off season, that's going to be the management's real test. 

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  11. 7 minutes ago, RWJC said:

    Sorry, but are you Motte’s relative?

    how the hell do any of us know what his agent was commanding? Two sides to this equation. If he was going to be affordable - he’s already proven his value to EVERYONE including mgmt - he would have already been re-signed, no?


    again, have to wait and see what he commands as a UFA before ppl dismiss this as failure.

    I guess the part where I've said that Motte should've been kept until the end of the season flew right past your head, nowhere have I mentioned anything about resigning him at any amount. I'll reiterate that what bothers me about this trade is that Allvin chose a 4th rounder over team morale and chemistry. This is a close knit group, you don't have to be anyone's relative to figure that out; it's been said by the players and BB themselves. Taking a key member of that group out for a 4th rounder while they believe they can fight for the playoffs is not a good look. Everyone whined about the previous regime's supposed effect on team morale and now those same people seem to be justifying this move as something progressive. 

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  12. 26 minutes ago, RWJC said:

    Have one look at the Rags roster and then calculate their cap for next year. I would be very surprised if Motte is part of that team. If anything PA is giving him a better chance at a cup. Let’s just see where Motte ends up and for how much before lambasting the move.

     

    It absolutely sucks for us, I agree.

    But it may end up we got a 4th for free, we just don’t know yet 

    That's some really wishful thinking, unfortunately. Bottom line is that this Motte trade was completely unnecessary, you do not shake up the locker room and send a completely random signal to a close knit group for a 4th rounder. JR and Allvin better pull some magic in the off season because this TDL was pretty brutal.

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  13. Aside from the extremely underwhelming position the team is in post the TDL, it's also concerning that Allvin decided to f up team chemistry for a 4th round pick. Motte was an important part of a close knit group that was still fighting despite their challenges. Way to send a message to your group. I hope the summer turns out to be much better for this management team, and I will wait until then to fully assess them, but this TDL is a huge facepalm. 

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  14. 23 minutes ago, Devron said:

    I wasn’t I don’t know what was so exciting about new management before they even made a move. 

    Classic human behavior. Most people are wired to grow wary and tired of something old and then completely hype up the new shiny toy, regardless of what facts point out to. Happens all the time in politics, entertainment, and in this case, sports. There's tons of interesting literature on this if you're interested in the topic. And regarding our management, won't be long till these heroes are run out of town and a new regime is hyped up in a similar manner. 

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  15. This trade seems so pointless. Why not just keep Motte at this point when he has an important role on the team. What kind of message is this sending to the players? Before someone comes in with the aSsEt mAnaGeMenT argument, please tell me the last time a 4th rounder turned into anything worthwhile. Ideally we keep Motte till the end of the season and let the team battle it out, and let him walk at the end of it if the price of resigning him is too high. A 4th is negligible, this trade as a whole just seems so random and unnecessary. 

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  16. 9 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

    Are we still wondering if the 1st for Miller trade is still an overpayment? I thought fans here think that Benning sucks at trading/acquiring people? Benning left this team in a pretty good spot, but of course, the people who hated Benning will naturally praise JR for keeping the team intact. There's so much hypocrisy in the anti-Benning slant, that even someone who sees faults in both Benning/Green that we could be thought of as Benning bros. Truly dishonest takes from certain fans.

    The Benning hate gives a really shocking revelation into the psychology of most people. They have zero sense of objectivity and really take on the mob/sheeple form of spreading hate and negativity towards the guy. His strengths get ignored or credited to other people and he's perpetually crucified for his mistakes. I also find it appalling at the amount of hate that's built on just hearsay, and not actual researched facts or circumstances about the events that took place regarding certain trades, signings and draft picks.

     

    It's honestly embarrassing being a Canucks fan sometimes just on a human level. I'd hate to ever be employed by the team just based off of the toxicity the media and our own fans spread on a daily basis. No other fan base, besides maybe the Habs, comes close to this repulsive level. Anyways, cheers to the fans who look at the team and it's personnel through an unbiased, properly researched and humane lens, I hope along with the team our fan base also gets a rehabilitated look. 

  17. To be this offensively competent while missing Petey is a great insight into this team's strengths. We are also much better defensively than majority of people will ever give our team credit for, despite the apparent evidence.

     

    Proud of this team and their formidable character. To climb back 1 point away from a playoff spot is incredible, especially when the entire league, media and your own "fan" base has written you off (and is incessantly bickering about trading everyone away). Beyond applaudable stuff imo. Knew since day 1 this is what they were capable of under a professional coach, damn proud to be cheering for this group. 

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  18. 23 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

    Since the coaching change, the Canucks are up there with the cup contending teams for most wins/points.

     

    FMdDm2FVgAQc6Xg?format=jpg&name=medium

    But according to our media and fanbase, we're not a playoff team, Benning destroyed everything, and we need to trade our core for RHD and mid- late 1st round picks. Glad stats like this give some perspective to some of these preposterous takes & narratives we have to come across all day. 

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  19. 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

    Miller is 21st in scoring as a C/W in the league.  He has almost hit the 50 point mark.  VS Tofolli who hasnt sniffed the 30 point mark.

     

    Tofolli is older, Miller is cost controlled for his contract for another full season.  Tofolli does not play in an all situations type pace like Miller.  Nor is he a leader, he's a 2nd line winger trending towards middle 6.

     

    Regardless of the extra year on his contract Miller is missing I feel as though if the return is not a combination of multiple 1st round picks, an established young player worth the name + an A+ prospect JR and the new management team will have completely failed in regards to RoA regarding Miller.

     

    Like it or not, call it fantasy if you'd like.  The bar has just been set and established for trades this season.  The Schneider/Lafrenier, 1st + Baron/Chytill/Kravtov + comments and dreams are now not only in the realms of believability but I dare say almost an expectation 

    I understand where you're coming from, but there's more to the situation than what we see by the numbers. 

     

    Any team landing Miller has to look at the cost of resigning him. No one is giving up such a significant amount of their future for potentially just one playoff run. Can they fit him under the cap after one more year with his upgraded cap hit? That's a tough thing to gauge for any team. Whoever is trading for Miller is in a win now mode, and is probably already close to the cap. Which means they'll have to either trade him again very soon once his contract is running out, to keep their core together, or resign him while getting rid of a piece of their current core, which is probably not something that will be easy to do as those players are already most likely on big money contracts. Adding Miller will improve any team, but can also shake the balance of how it is built once his contract is up for renegotiation. 

     

    Any team trading for Miller right now would also have to have cap room to accommodate his current $5.5m in cap, which at the end of the day is a substantial number. With these factors considered, does any team depart with their A grade prospects ,1st round draft pick & roster players to land JT Miller? It is not as straight forward as it seems. 

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  20. 1 minute ago, Provost said:

    It is not a “conditional” 1st round pick.  That is the language you would use if they “might” get a 1st round pick in the deal if some condition was met (like making the finals)… so you are trying to make it sound worse than it is.

     

    It is a 1st round pick in either 2022 or 2023… they 100% are getting a 1st round pick.

    It is top 10 protected this year and if the pick is inside the top 10, Calgary can choose to instead give an unprotected 1st plus a 4th in 2023.

     

    Also, Toffoli is a 2nd line winger… so isn’t in the same stratosphere as Miller who can play centre and has been in the top 10-15 in scoring all season.  In order to make it worthwhile, the return would absolutely be a top prospect, a 1st rounder, and another piece.

    I simply quoted the information that was available at that time, I don't know why you're deciding on my behalf on what my intention was with that post. 

     

    I do agree though, the return you mentioned is what the Canucks need to ask for to make the trade talks worthwhile. But whether or not that happens is a big question mark. Miller is also at a cap hit $1m higher than Toffoli, and is due for a bigger contract soon. Is any potential trade partner willing to take on everything adding Miller to their team brings, while giving up enormous pieces of their future? A lot of nuanced variables are in place that will take serious contemplation before anyone pulls the trigger parting with a prospect like Laf, another A tier prospect, and a first, among other pieces. I could very well be wrong but I highly doubt a trade of that level happens. 

     

     

  21. Just now, rekker said:

    I for one have never expected that kind of return. For me, the keys to a Miller trade are quality and team needs. The Rangers top young wingers don't interest me. Schneider answers both team needs and quality. He's an A prospect. A deal centered around Schneider and the Rags first are the center pieces. I feel Schneider, first, and one of those wingers will never happen. It would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it. 

    Same here, 99% of the Miller trade proposals I see around here just sound like straight up fantasy to me. There is zero past precedent based in reality, where a team that is currently in need for a player like Miller gives up close to what the fan base is expecting. And I agree, it would be nice to be wrong, but I don't see it either. And furthermore, I see more use in keeping Miller overall. 

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  22. Although there are a lot of pieces, is the return for MTL really as great as people are making it sound?

     

    - a conditional 1st rounder

    - Pitlick (pending UFA)

    - Heineman (B prospect, traded twice since drafted in 2020)

    - 5 rounder (negligible) 

     

    Is this enough to warrant excitement to land Laf, an A prospect, 1st rounder, etc from NYR as some are suddenly expecting?

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