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Toews

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Everything posted by Toews

  1. Nylander is also a better possession player than RNH. I think the injuries and developing on the Oilers really did a number on RNH. I think both Yakupov and Hall would also have been much better players had they played for different teams. Nylander and RNH were similar level prospects, one just developed much better than the other did because he was put in a position to succeed at every level while RNH went from junior straight to the frying pan. It didn't help that the Oilers swapped coaches every other year while Nylander gets to develop and learn under an elite coach.
  2. I have never called him a bust but good try. You took issue with someone calling him a disappointment and tried to frame it as a ridiculous opinion. It isn't, there are a lot of people that expected Jake to be a better player today than he is right now including me. In that sense his progression has been disappointing. That doesn't mean he will never amount to anything. The poster you took issue with never labeled him a bust either so this is a strawman. If you want to talk about insecurity, the surest sign of insecurity is when someone tries to tell others that their opinions are worth more or that they are experts who simply know more than anyone else. In my experience real experts let their opinions speak for themselves. I am not sure what "fanboi mentality from too much Playstation" means. The word "fanboy" represents individuals who cannot be objective about their fandom. Recognizing that a player has flaws to their game is the opposite of being a fanboy. My motive in coming to this forum is the same as it has always been, to have an honest discussion. If that offends you, then by all means feel free to put me on ignore.
  3. I disagree with the bolded portions. We are here to judge him on his skills and hockey IQ, that's the entire point of this thread. I also don't think Jake comes to this thread to see what is posted about him, so we don't have to sugar coat his performances.
  4. This is hilarious lol. How do you even come up with this stuff? Anyway thanks for the laugh, feel a bit better after that brutal shootout loss.
  5. I don't know about anyone else but I would absolutely not advocate trading our best defenseman for Jake no matter which team he played for. EDIT: Also IMO anyone who cites geography as a reason to acquire a player is someone that isn't worth taking seriously. EDIT2: I was totally thinking of Don Cherry with the comment on geography.
  6. No one really cares about your credentials on an anonymous online forum. Maybe if you could tell us which NHL team or even major junior team you are employed with, we will actually take your unqualified boasts seriously. Till then you are just a pleb like the rest of us giving your opinion on a player from the seat of your couch. Also I did find it funny that the demonstration of your superior hockey mind included the statement that McDavid could get injured and "crash and burn". Wow such a hot take, none of us had even considered the possibility that a player could get hurt playing one of the most physical sports in the world.
  7. One of them is Ben Eager. I forget who the other player was.
  8. Work ethic should not be an issue going forward IMO. I have been critical of him but he didn't just talk the talk last year. At the start of the year he could barely take a full shift before he had to go off. Now he can stay out there and remain engaged for a full shift. I think he has understood that if he wants a future in the NHL, he needs to take his training seriously. He is not going to come into camp out of shape. I still think he has a lot to learn if he is going to be a power forward and should be in the AHL to start the year.
  9. Not sure when I have played the victim. Honestly speaking I just post my opinion. I don't care too much if it will upset and annoy anyone, because that is out of my control. I can only post my thoughts on something, if someone can't handle it then they can choose to put me on their ignore list if they desire. Other than that I do not like nor dislike Jake Virtanen. I do not know him personally so the only opinion I have of him is about his on ice performance. I just like the many others who have been accused of "hating" on him have a vested interest in seeing him succeed because he is a Vancouver Canuck. I do not care to be proven right because I have made no grand proclamations like some in this thread. I have only commented on the player he is today. I have made predictions. I have posted my expectations but I am no clairvoyant, I have always made it clear that I possess no ability to look into the future to say with any certainty what Jake Virtanen's future looks like. If you want to read about my thoughts and hopes regarding him then refer to the following post. I have been told that my opinions in this thread would be more tolerable if I were to balance out the criticisms with "positivity". I just have no desire to do that. I am not going to water down my post and minimize my arguments just to gain acceptance and more +'s.
  10. Who wants him to fail? Unless you see criticism as a desire to see him fail.
  11. I hope at the very least reading this story makes you feel some guilt. http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/how-jaromir-jagr-may-have-manipulated-the-1990-nhl-draft-in-his-favor-090116 The Canucks knew Jagr was the better player. Nedved admitted in an interview at the draft itself that Jagr was the best player in the draft. Jagr wanted to play with his idol Mario, he planned it so that he would go to Pittsburgh. So your frustrations should have been directed at Jagr for not wanting to play for Vancouver than the guy that was actually excited to play for the Canucks.
  12. Production is always going to be an important factor when you judge a player. Someone on HF went through all the first round picks who made the NHL in recent years and there were only two players who made it with production similar to Virtanen, one of them is Ben Eager. Now some will say that it isn't fair to reduce the sample size to just first round picks because you ignore players like Burrows, who was in the ECHL and made his way up. But like someone else pointed out in this thread earlier Burrows improved by leaps and bounds every year. He was certainly not on anyone's radar as an 18 year old. Most first round picks are quite noticeably ahead of other players in their draft season, it is then up to them to continue improving. If you stagnate then other players will most certainly end up passing you. Ideally you want your prospects to be an upwards trajectory, improving every single year. This is the reason why if I had to choose between a guy like Adam Gaudette and Virtanen, I take Gaudette every single time. Regardless you ignored the rest of my post simply to focus on production. I certainly did not "make this all about PPG", but even if I had it is just an disingenuous to say that production is not even relevant when judging a player. I watched quite a few Utica games last year and made sure to focus on Virtanen so its not like I am going off of a stat sheet. There were so many instances where I saw Jake flying down the wing with a D maintaining gap control and keeping him to the outside and Jake would put a wrister on net with no one crashing the net, which the goalie would easily parry away. I question how many of his shot attempts came from legitimate scoring chances as to me the only time he really looked dangerous was when he got the jump on a defenseman and was able to then exploit the difference in speed. This is why I said most of his points came off of the rush. If Jake is going to be a power forward that needs to change, he needs to start crashing the net. He needs to use his size to carry the puck down low, protect it and use his cycling game. The bolded is meaningless to me. Virtanen could have an epiphany and become a star in the coming years and it still won't change the fact that in the first three years that he was drafted he was a disappointment due to his lack of progression. Unlike you I don't have a crystal ball that tells me that Jake will be a top 6 player a few years from now. Throughout this discussion I have commented on the player he is right now and not the player he will be in the future. I do not like to make definitive statements about prospects. I have been following amateur and pro hockey for long enough to know that such statements don't work out well in the long run.
  13. Virtanen has shown very little progress since being drafted. Just about everyone expected more from him than being in his draft + 3 year than putting up less than 0.3 ppg in the AHL. Every hockey player makes strides at that age. Cole Cassels made some strides this year as well, I don't expect him to be a NHLer despite that. Its quite telling that the best that people can say about Virtanen's season is that he lost a few pounds and began to take his training seriously. This is something that many of his peers figured out before they were even drafted. Right now the Canucks have stated that they want him to play the style of a power forward. He has also stated that he wants to be that player, but which elements of his game actually represent a power forward's game? Now the term "power forward" is subjective but to me power forwards drive to the net, they are able to use their larger frame to win puck battles and create space for their teammates. They are also able to use their physicality on the forecheck to cause turnovers and play a strong cycle game. How many of those qualities does Jake have? He scored the majority of his points on the rush. His cycle game is not up to the mark. His play along the boards is getting better but I still wouldn't call it a strength yet. He used to use his speed to close the gap quickly on defenders to try and create turnovers but he has curtailed that part of his game significantly. If management wants him to be a power forward then he shouldn't and won't be in the NHL next year because his game is not that of a traditional power forward.. Calling him a "disappointment" at this stage is like saying "Fire is hot". I see no issue with that, he is a disappointment thus far. Disappointment =/ Bust. There is still hope for Jake which is why he isn't referred to as "bust" by most people.
  14. I never said it was everyone doing it. I am just saying there were quite a few posters with the whole "I love the Sedins" but on the the next line, "I want Canadian heart". It was silly then and it is silly now, the Sedins dedicated themselves to this franchise and did everything they could to try and bring a Cup to this city. The last thing that should be questioned is the Sedins' passion for the game, they show it through their work ethic, their dedication. I find it sad that there are some in this city that celebrate lunch-pail type players while dumping on two of the greatest superstars this franchise will ever see.
  15. "European softies" If you go through this thread you will see the Sedins cited as reasons why we need to switch to drafting more Canadians boys. This is how most of those posts went, "I love the Sedins, but I am glad JB is building this team around big, tough Canadian talent". At least the one positive that has come out of this is that no one seems to be advocating that the Canucks should be focusing on BC born players at the draft.
  16. He wasn't sent to the AHL to score, he was sent to lose weight. Luckily for us he lost more pounds than he scored points. Its always a promising sign when a player's Pounds/60 stat is higher than his Points/60 stat.
  17. WTF France just beat Finland 5-1 :o

    1. Alflives

      Alflives

      I guess that's good for hockey, but who the heck do the Finns have in net?  

  18. Edler seems to play with an edge when he plays for Sweden. Its something that Swedish fans have commented on as well. Maybe he can wear his Swedish jersey under his Canucks jersey next year.
  19. Apparently Edler may have killed a few Ruskies with some massive hits. I missed the first period, plan on watching the second before work.

    1. Show previous comments  2 more
    2. saucypass

      saucypass

      I don't even know who the real Edler is anymore :sadno:  He's even more unpredictable than Dr. Jeckyll and Hyde. 

    3. Toews

      Toews

      Actually its pretty simple, Edler on Canucks = Dr. Jeckylll. Edler on Sweden = Hyde. :lol:

    4. saucypass

      saucypass

      LOL. Good one. Actually made me chuckle out loud. Trade him while he's still Hyde? :lol: Or should I say, trade him while his trade value is still hyde? :bigblush: 

  20. Sometimes you can have real conversations with these players about matters other than just the game. In that case why would you want to blab about everything shared in that conversation. Its a good way to make sure that players never open up to fans because even their off-hand comments are being transcribed somewhere on the internet. These players are people and they deserve some privacy. Also there is a rule on here that forbids talking about the personal lives of players, so anything that isn't pertinent to his game is against the rules.
  21. Got this off of the HF Virtanen thread... http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=131557947&postcount=937 That's depressing but it shows how much work he needs to put in if he wants to carve out a successful career in the NHL. At the very least you need to be able to score at the AHL level if you want to make it, even as a 4th liner in today's game you need to be able to produce.
  22. You know what the odds are. You know to temper your expectations going into it but there is still that sliver of hope that keeps growing. You dare to dream that this might the day things go differently. Then comes the crushing disappointment.

    1. Qwags

      Qwags

      You also don't expect the Top 3 to comprised of teams nowhere near the bottom.

  23. I am part of the 1% that knows the truth. The reality is that this massive extinction that you speak of has been planned for a very long time by our overlords, aka laser cats. Laser cats are like the white walkers from GOT except they can shoot lasers out of every orifice. Even the ManBearPig is afraid of the laser cats.
  24. The TV show Mr. Robot explores this concept. You should check it out if you have some time to kill.
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