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Everything posted by Coconuts
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I mean, that one would actually be accurate this season.. Management needs to figure out what kind of roster they want to build, what they want the identity of their team to be and they need to do it before the start pulling the trigger on trades. What kind of game do we want to play? The coaching staff can implement a system but ultimately it's management who makes the big decisions regarding identity when it comes to constructing their roster. Or deconstructing it. Having goals like making the playoffs and all that is great, but what do we want to be? Do we want to be a high octane club that rolls over teams? A chippy blue collar team like the one the Blues or Boston have often trotted out? Are we a team that focuses more on playing structured defense who prefers to counterpunch than run and gun? And which players on the roster actually fit that identity? It's probably gonna be a lengthy process sorting that bit out.
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"Country club" has gotta be my favourite Canucks related buzzword. What this team lacks more than any particular coach is an identity. We were a highly skilled team with depth when we made our run, then we pivoted and tried to be more like Boston. Now we're a team who's got some skill, that lacks depth, but that also lacks a clear identity. We're not tough, we aren't tenacious, we aren't gonna roll over teams with our overall skill. We're a glass cannon, a team that'll cheat to try and outscore it's problems. Playing a more defensive structure may help stop the bleeding a bit but it doesn't change the fact that roster construction in itself is a mess, I don't expect the results to change much over the remainder of the season. You know, outside of beating other tank teams who are lower in the standings than we are. We don't know what kind of game we want to play, there's no clear direction, and our horses are a mishmash. The cap headaches, weaker prospect pool, lack of a next wave of impact players, and our tendency to move out picks don't help either. But it's not just the roster that lacks a clear direction, it's the franchise in general. The goal under Benning was always working towards the playoffs and we tried taking shortcut after shortcut. Rutherford came in and starting spouting something similar but took it one step further, it was all about how we'd be contenders within two years. GM's in Vancouver have historically 4-6 years if they're lucky. Quinn was longest with 10 years, Benning is second with what.. seven? But there's no continuity. You know what you're getting when you play Boston regardless of who the coach is, you know what you're getting from Pittsburgh, or the Islanders, or Tampa. Hell, even an expansion team in Vegas has more of an identity than we do, you know the kind of game they're going to bring at you. Even Arizona, despite being a bottom feeder has an identity and has for years. Yes, they're absolutely a less talented team but they play plucky blue collar hockey and come at you in waves. Jersey and Minnesota had identities as defense first teams for years, Carolina has that now. You know Winnipeg is going to be big and skilled and that they'll try and grind you down. You never know what you're getting from a Canucks team, the only consistent thing about them over the past decade is that they've been mediocre.
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(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
That wasn't my point, my point was that Montreal was willing to pivot and make the most of their current scenario. Admitting that they're further away than closer, selling off veterans, and trying to dump larger cap deals would be our equivalent. Rutherford was operating under the assumption we were closer than we were, things have changed and our approach will likely have to change as well. They can give the coaching staff a go and we'll see what happens but if this roster doesn't appear to be more competitive sooner than later they'll need to at least consider pulling the plug on some of the guys in the room. Miller could be one of them if they conclude we're further away than closer. February doesn't look much easier than January so I don't expect the results to shift all that much. But hey, maybe Miller stays and he's simply a highly paid veteran on a team that flounders between the bottom of the standings and no man's land for the foreseeable future. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Rutherford doesn't need to worry about that, he's got three cups and he's in the hockey hall of fame, his legacy is cemented The NHL likes to recycle its executives, Allvin would find work again and the others likely would too Management miscalculated, JR's said as much in his admission that this roster needs larger surgery Sometimes its better to recognize that you need to pivot instead of trying to bang your head against a wall Rutherford thought we were further ahead competitively than we are, it is what it is, you have to roll with things For example, the Habs made the final and then ran into Weber's career ending status and Price's injury stuff, they pivoted and sold hard and look to have an extremely bright future ahead of them as a result Sometimes you've gotta set your ego aside and call a spade a spade -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
Coconuts replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I'm not sure, I must have missed the update I could see them being in a position where they're still re-evaluating, losing Pacioretty again is big as he was showing that he's still an effective player Maybe he's back closer to playoff time, maybe he comes back for the playoffs, maybe he doesn't come back at all Carolina is one of the best defensive teams in the league and that'll serve them well come playoff time, that being said they're only a middle of the road team offensively as they're 14th in goals and their powerplay is 25th, that's with them leading the league in shots on goal Kotkaniemi is young enough that he could still be something but he's not looking like a 2C right now and they could absolutely use a more effective offensive player in that spot -
[GDT] Around the NHL | January (22-28) 2023
Coconuts replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
Guess we'll see, I'm hoping they don't get a coaching bump. I'm hoping we lose to at least one of Chicago and Columbus, I'm pretty confident Seattle will finally beat us. Thankfully February also looks pretty rough. March and April are where things get dicey, lots of head to head tank battles. https://www.nhl.com/canucks/schedule/2023-03-01/PT -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
Coconuts replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I do believe Carolina could possibly sign him for 7-8 years. Sooner or later they're going to have to get off the fence and go for it or risk being a team who's arguably good enough to contend that never amounts to anything. They absolutely have a hole at 2C and Pacioretty's expiring 7M would pay for most of Horvat. Yes, it's in the best interest of most teams to not sign players to deals that take players later into their 30's, it's part of why I'm chapped about Miller, but it's a bit different when you're arguably on the cusp of a championship like Carolina is. Horvat will be 28 in April, you should be able to get at least four or five seasons of top six level production from him yet, and as his production falls off he'll still have intangibles to mitigate some of whatever production is lost. He's not a one dimensional player and that should bode well for a team that brings him on board. A seven year deal would take him to 35, better that than 37. If Bo could help the Canes win a championship the fanbase, management, and ownership would happily eat his contract. -
[GDT] Around the NHL | January (22-28) 2023
Coconuts replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in General Hockey Discussion
Not a great day for the tank. Philly lost, Chicago lost, and San Jose lost. Looks like Arizona should win but it's unlikely we catch them. But hey, if they do I'll absolutely take it. We really need San Jose to start stringing together wins again, Philly too. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Not the end of the world, no. But a piece I hope we move, absolutely. There's absolutely a strong chance we end up having to ride out most of JT's contract, there's also a chance we may end up buying him out. I don't think he's going to age well, some folks argued that they think he'll be an outlier. I personally doubt it. High end D typically hold up longer than high end forwards, I don't think he'll be worth his money for the duration of his contract. I think that would matter a bit less to a team that's primed to compete sooner than later, which lines up with what remains of Miller's prime, I think a team that'll be either rebuilding or retooling could have allocated that cap more effectively. We'll see what happens under Tocchet, I expect he's just another filler coach but we'll see. From what I've gathered he's on a shorter term deal anyway, wouldn't be hard to walk away from. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
It's not done yet, his NTC hasn't kicked in yet. He could absolutely still be traded, hence my advocacy. He could hold value to a team like the Islanders for an example, a veteran laden team that should probably be going for it sooner or later given the age of their core not named Barzal and Dobson. Taking back Josh Bailey's 5M that expires after next season would make this season's cap hit roughly a wash for example. There absolutely are trade possibilities and I do believe teams would have interest if we'd be willing to take cap back. The word retool has been thrown around lately, I attribute that to the stigma that comes with the word rebuild. I was arguing last season that this team needs major surgery, JR's finally acknowledged as much. They've got quite the puzzle to figure out. Questionable prospect depth and a lack of blue chip prospects, they're currently capped out alongside much of the league, the contracts they'd probably like to move would probably involve cap coming back, defense is a tough thing to build and address and it's our biggest weakness. We don't have much in the way of a next wave right now, Pettersson and Hughes are approaching their mid 20's. If you're more optimistic than me about our competitive chances than I am by all means, but I don't see our timeline as being two years. I argued all summer that I thought we were at least four years out from contention and things look worse now than they did then. I think a rebuild could be forced upon management whether they like it or not, what they decide to call it is semantics. That being said, I don't think we need a scorched earth rebuild, but yes I'd absolutely be shipping out vets like Horvat and Miller. As for JR, this teams headaches will likely outlast his being in his current role. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
You are more than welcome to believe whatever you like but we won't agree on this matter. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Has nothing to do with my day, I've simply long held the stance that Miller does not fit the competitive timeline of this roster and should have been traded at the deadline, or at least year's draft, or during the summer. It was an overpayment by Dallas then, it's an overpayment now. And that's the key word, now. He's on the hook for another seven seasons, plenty of us have concerns about how he'll age. He's already defensively questionable player, that won't get any better as he ages and slows down. He's a one dimensional scoring winger who can take draws and who likely peaked last season. He's not worthless, he's a capable offensive player, but he doesn't fit on a roster that'll likely be undergoing what management have been calling a retool. More than likely it'll look more like a rebuild. He should have been moved for picks, prospects, or to help address our defense. We'd be better off having 8M in cap flex or having reallocated that cap space to our defense. He'd be a better fit on a team closer to contention, or at least a team regularly in the playoff mix. -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
Coconuts replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Yup, all three are absolutely viable options. Could possibly throw the Rangers in there too, or maybe the Islanders. Or possibly Jersey. If he makes it to UFA and can be had for nothing but term and money he'll have no shortage of landing spots where he could chase a cup. Teams would make room. -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
Coconuts replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I have been paying attention, I just don't take PA at his word. He's got a track record of opening his mouth, talking, and saying absolutely nothing of any real significance. Speaks like a politician. Maybe, I doubt it. This is the fourth coach Bo's seen arrive during his time here, I'll be very surprised if he elects to stick around on what'll likely continue to be a loser. All Bo's done as a Canuck is lose, careers are fleeting and if really wants to chase a cup he'll have a better chance at doing that elsewhere. Alvin said it himself, this isn't going to be a quick fix. Might be the only real information he gave us and it's nothing we didn't already know. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I don't need to show you a Stanley cup team, we won't be there any time soon. Getting from where we are to a place where we're a consistent playoff team will likely take a while, at which point Miller probably won't be worth 8M. He doesn't fit with the age bracket of the young core we should be building around. Plus, if it's vets we want there are cheaper and shorter-term ways of going about that. -
[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks
Coconuts replied to HOFsedins's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
What else is his agent going to say publicly? Dude is almost certainly gone, particularly if he has cup dreams. He ain't doing that here any time soon. -
(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller
Coconuts replied to combover's topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Miller doesn't fit the timeline of a rebuild plain and simple, we're unlikely to be a surefire playoff team over the remainder of his prime let alone a cup contender. He's a piece we should be moving if we can find a taker. -
But yeah, the last season and a half is definitely the lowest point for the organization over the course of my fandom. The past decade has been lousy but they've continued to find new lows over the past season and a half.
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I was thinking this earlier. We mocked Edmonton a fair bit post-cup run because of their coaching carousal, lack of quality rosters, their whiffing on picks and their lack of prospects, their incompetent management, their consistently missing the playoffs. Sounds a lot like where we've been at, there's probably more of it on the way.
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I always enjoyed his interviews, if the boys weren't good he'd be straight about it but he didn't throw them under the bus the way Green would