JiffyPB

Warhippy saw this coming and people were giving him s*** right until the day before this stuff leaked out lmao

Agreed then. We share common ground here. Because you don't have proof. The only thing you can cite is something imagined by a poster on CDC. He did and they finally did send him down. The coach doesn't owe a guy with a "last on, first off" mentality a "chance" to play 18 minutes a night. I blame this on management for gifting him a spot 2 years in a row. Heck, they send him down the AHL and announce to the world it's only 2 games. Then they made some poor chap change his number just so Jake can keep his in the AHL for those 2 freaking games. What kind of message does that send? What has Jake done to earn this privilege other than riding a sky high shooting percentage in juniors 3 years ago off into the sunset. It's not about the overall effectiveness, it's about if the player is trying enough. Jake's work ethic isn't good enough for this league. Not only has he struggled with his conditioning, many have already reported how he barely makes it to practice on time and is one of the first to get off. If his work ethic was like Hansen's, I wouldn't be complaining. I'd be screaming at the coach to play him more. All I'm saying is look at other young players comparable of his age and see what kind of work they put in to get in here. Then look at Jake. It's pretty clear which kinds of players were gifted an NHL roster spot and which ones weren't. The ones that made it out of merit are either all producing (Laine, Matthews, Werenski, Nylander, etc) or are providing enough effort in other aspects of the game that makes them worth keeping around (Tkachuk, Forsling, Tryamkin, etc). Jake doesn't do this. Even a guy like Gaunce who has flat-lined at this level provides something in the sense that he can play center and can win over 50% of his draws. Overall this isn't a chicken or the egg dichotomy. It's pretty damn simple. Jake needs to go to the AHL because (1) he isn't ready for the NHL, (2) he needs to work on stuff like positioning, effort level and cycling, and (3) he needs to build up his confidence. He won't fix these at the NHL level and he won't receive that kind of coaching at the NHL level either. The NHL is a results based league and Jake doesn't get results in any aspect of the game (even his physicality has disappeared). The AHL is a developmental league and as a player who needs development that is exactly where he needs to be.

You make it sound like the 5thline just sits on his computer all day and spams JV's twitter and instagram with hate messages. He is a god damn adult in a professional sports league. The problem isn't patience, it's the fact he flat out does not belong in this league and if he weren't a 20 year old 6th overall pick you would not praise him any more than a plug like Skille. People recognize this and is why they are saying to send him down and keep him there. Prove it. This myth was drummed up by rabid supporters on CDC who wanna pretend this is the same thing as Draisaitl and Prince Albert or the gongshow going on in Flint. It's fundamentally not true. Why didn't Philly demand Sanheim be moved? Why is Carolina not doing the same in the interest of their prized prospect Jake Bean? This team was a playoff team last year WITHOUT JV and had no problem developing those guys + others in the past like Victor Rask (also Carolina) and Martin Jones (SJ). It isn't the coach's job to reward a player playing no better than a plug who has a "last on, first off" mentality. Tryamkin sat in the pressbox for a month, worked his ass off in practice and got back in shape. He's now a regular. Jake goes to the media and whines about how he doesn't get to ride shotgun with Bo and Sven. Healthy scratch and AHL demotion. Jake's play in the defensive zone is Timbits hockey. The try isn't really there. It wasn't about Nylander and Marner being 2-way players or their overall effectiveness in their own zone, it's the fact even players like them put in more effort than Jake does overall. Funny how you don't talk about Tkachuk and Bennett. This kid's intensity isn't anywhere near theirs. It's why the coach makes him ride the pine and it's not because he can't score.

Benning logic.

He's an adult in a professional sports league, not your child in kindergarten and it's not like he's sifting through CDC getting the feels reading through this thread. He was gifted a spot last year despite being outplayed by numerous players. He didn't do a good job justifying it other than a span of 3 weeks when it was garbage time. He played an average camp this year and still made the team despite having no more NHL/CHL dilemma. Just because Benning shoved a kid who's not NHL ready down WD's throat doesn't mean WD has to make Benning look good by playing him a lot. He's painfully not NHL ready and the funny thing is that it's not his hockey IQ or defensive play that's the root cause of the problem, it's his surprising lack of intensity. He plays the game with a 6/10 intensity. The funny thing is everyone calls guys like Nylander or Marner girls and suggest they aren't any good because they think those players are above putting in the work because they'll chip a nail while not realizing JV puts in even less in both ends of the ice. You know why Tkachuk and Bennett are such good players. Those kids put in the work. Both are incredibly talented, but their motor is top notch and they play with the same kind of intensity grinders like Burrows and Hansen do. It's why they're gonna be successful in this league even if they don't end up reaching their full potentials.

He is not a 2-way player like those guys and this isn't a developmental league. If he honestly can't score better than he is now in the AHL then stick a fork in him.

He should be put at LW and go down to Utica once Rodin is healthy.

He was. People were saying if he was eligible for the 2015 draft there would be consideration of him being taken over Eichel.

I was speaking in general as you were referring originally to a post made by Gooseberries.

An older player on an even more spectacularly stacked team with OHL prodigy John Tavares, Kadri and Del Zotto. What D partner did Juolevi play that even closely compares to Del Zotto. London had 1 godsend line on the team Juolevi played on while Carlson had 2 lines to work with along with a very capable threat on the blueline who could carry the offense in Del Zotto. That year was an exception, not the rule. If anything, that proves my point shows Juolevi has even more to show in his draft +1 year just as Carlson did. When they had Schremp, Bolland, Hunter and Kostitsyn in 2006 their highest scoring D had 14 points When they had Gagner, Kostitsyn and Patrick freaking Kane in 2007 their highest scoring D had 24 points. The 2005 Memorial Cup winning team had a 19 year old and a 20 year old paired together putting up points. A team stacked with talent including Cory Perry, Hunter, Schemp, Bolland, Prust, Methot and Girardi. The 2016 London Knights barely qualify to shine that team's shoes. As demonstrated, just because you have good forwards doesn't equal defensemen loading up on points in London. The players who did were all at least a year older and/or were on more deeper teams and none of the London D that DID put up points were draft eligible 17 year old imports like Juolevi. Juolevi played on a very good team, but it wasn't as deep as the 2005 and 2010 London teams. He didn't he play with someone on the blue-line as good as some of those players had and it wasn't his role to purely produce offense like Jake Bean. He had to be used in every situation and thus his numbers are a bit more understated compared to other top ranked D. I agree with you that he's not a Karlsson or a future Lidstrom, but that doesn't mean his OHL number somehow signify that he doesn't have the chops to be a Suter or a T.J. Brodie (medium #1 or higher end #2).

London D don't typically score much. Look at Zadorov and Matta in their draft years (had Horvat, Tierney, Griffith, Namestnikov and Domi in those years). Matta (32 points in draft year, highest scoring D on London that year) walked in a year after being drafted and was practically a 30 point defenseman in the NHL and Zadorov (25 in 60) is also a highly regarded prospect. A stats comparison like that is very superficial. OJ is tied for 2nd highest scoring D-man in 6 years for London and did it as a 17 year old import. The only guy who beat him was a 20 year old 4th year player in 2010. Looks just fine to me.

Juolevi is on loan to the OHL. I think it may be possible to get him in Utica like Dallas did with Honka.

That's more of a factor if they wanted to send him down, not as much when it comes to keeping him here. Management admitted they penciled him in the roster because that's how much they wanted him, not because they wanted to get him out of a "bad situation." If they wanted for him to be moved, they would likely just ask for him to be moved or handle it more a la Minnesota and Matt Dumba. You wouldn't see them playing chicken with the 39 game mark if that was the case (I believe games on IR when you are on the roster count towards that limit). The reason he's coming back and going to play more is because the Canucks want him here and management would be okay with moving him 1 year closer to UFA status. If the Canucks were truly unhappy with the way Calgary was developing him, you would see far more friction than what you're seeing now. When the Canucks saw how Horvat was playing on a highly regarded organization like London, they made is known that they were not happy with how he started playing more passive and was pacing himself due to the sheer amount of minutes he was playing. You're not even seeing that level of friction.

The reason Jake is on the team is because frankly, the Canucks just wanted him on the team. It's honestly that simple. They believed he was ready and wanted to manage him day-to-day while he acclimates to the NHL rather than send him to juniors in general regardless of what team. It really had nothing to do with the HItmen as an organization (unless you want to believe some secret conspiracy that the Calgary-based Hitmen want to ruin their own draft pick because he was taken by the Canucks). Calgary is a winning team and would be a contender if they had Jake. There is zero reason to trade him. As for the idea that Calgary is somehow in the same boat as Prince Albert was last season is malarky. Prince Albert was a losing team that had already traded away stud defenseman Josh Morrissey and looked to re-build, Calgary is not trading anyone away and is winning. Jake would walk into a situation where he would clearly be the go-to winger on a good team and get tons of PP time in a winning environment. In Vancouver they would have more day-to-day control over him and allow him to get used to playing at this level, but he's playing on a bad team that is top-10 pick bound while averaging 10 minutes a game and not really producing. Like I've said before, Jake is a WHL 1st overall pick and a 6th overall NHL draft pick. It would reflect very poorly on the organization if they didn't use him in favorable of a position as they can. If Calgary was actually as bad as people are inventing in their minds, why isn't Philly panicking over Fazleev and Sanheim? Should any team drafting projected 1st rounder Jake Bean be panicking about his situation? They seem to be doing just fine and the reality is that it's really up to Jake to put it together. The idea that Calgary is a bad developmental organization has been debunked before and is an invented idea.

After seeing the sheer amount of hate on HF, I feel really sad for the kid.

Bergeron only went to the AHL because of a lockout. He was already a proven NHLer with 39 points in 71 games.

The post had nothing to do with positive or negative view on him, it had to do with the endless excuses being made for him. In the same post I said he still can develop into a 30+ goal scorer but the reality is he just isn't developed enough to be in the NHL right now. That's it. In the same post you are criticizing I said basically what you're telling me here.

It's crap because you couldn't think of anything else to say, nor were you able to counter any of the points again. The fact you get so butt-hurt over criticism of another man who will probably never read this post is amusing. Whether he was the best player or not is water under the bridge. 210 players get drafted, there's ALWAYS a chance at least 1 of the 204 after 6th overall is gonna be better as I've said in this thread before. Many people think the same about McCann, Larkin and Pastrnak right now.

Keep wearing the rose colored glasses and not even read the whole post. I never said he was a bust gone beyond the point of no return, I pointed out all of the excuses people are making for him and how they are false. It's better to acknowledge the problem so you can fix it rather than ignore it and pretend the bad things don't exist. He HASN'T developed much since being drafted. If you want to blindly support players, go ahead but this kid isn't gonna be the player you think he will be if he isn't developed correctly. Calling me a mouth breather when you couldn't even make 1 logical counterargument is laughable.

Biggest lies/myths supporters use for Virtanen: 1. Forgive his piss poor play because he was 1 month away from being eligible for the 2015 draft. This means absolutely nothing. It would be as utterly stupid as suggesting it is more spectacular for a November born 4th grader to get a B+ than a March born 4th grader to get an A. They're still 4th graders. He is developmentally no different than his other 96 born peers like McCann. The only place this argument was relevant is in comparison to Nick Ritchie, who was ACTUALLY a year older than him and was being drafted in what was his 3rd CHL season. The reason people preferred Virtanen over Ritchie was that Jake scored more goals than him and had 2 more years to show growth, where Ritchie only had 1 more and pretty much you were gonna get what you were seeing from him then. 2. The Hitmen are a bad developmental organization. The Hitmen are a very good organization and had no problems developing Sanheim (a PPG defenseman), Chase, Tambellini, Fazleev and upcoming projected 1st rounder Jake Bean, but somehow because Virtanen was struggling the Hitmen must be very bad. Other notable alumini off the top of my head include Martin Jones, Ryan Getzlaf and Andrew Ladd. But yeah, he Hitmen just suck at developing players. Maybe it's just Jake, not the organization. While the coach did juggle his line (even in ways that puzzled me at times) look at the other side of the equation. Much like Baertschi with WD, Virtanen just doesn't do some of the things the coach wants him to do and thus would continue to lose his trust. Jake is a 1st overall pick. Do you not think it would reflect very poorly on the organization if they didn't use their OWN damn 1st overall crown jewel in as favorable of a position as they could have. The reason his line would get juggled and he would get bounced around because his game at certain times would be THAT poor and frustrating to watch. 3. He should stay up here because he already dominated the WHL. Being a measly PPG player when your own team has a PPG defenseman is laughable. He even had 1st unit PP duties in his draft+1 season that he didn't have before and only managed 21 goals, which leads to the next excuse... 4. He struggled because he was injured. Most people already expected him not to be some 100 point player or a 1.5 PPG player because of injury. I think Nino Niederreiter was the expected production for him (70 points in 55 games, 30ish goals) and even then he failed. But the reason he failed wasn't because his start was that poor. Here is is game log (http://whl.ca/roster/gamebygame/id/26161/ls_season/249). By the end of January he had 37 points in 29 games, which is what was expected from him and there was very little whining about his play at that point. He managed 15 points in the next 21 games to END the season. In February he went on a cold streak and managed only 1 point in 7 games to start the month before recovering with a serious of multi point games the rest of the month. Then in March his game fell off a cliff and he went cold again managing only 4 points in 9 games. Do you honestly believe injury he recovered from 5 MONTHS prior to his poor play down the stretch is even close to being a valid, logical excuse for him? If you do, I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. 5. It's not about the points, you need guys that can hit because those guys win you playoff games. Nonsense. If all you wanted were guys that just hit and grind, draft them in the middle rounds or acquire them via free agency. Dorsett was acquired and was a former 7th round pick. Hansen was a 9th rounder and Prust was a 3rd rounder. That is where you should find guys like those. A player is drafted that high to score, not to be Dorsett 2.0 with a whopping 2 points in 43 playoff games. Jake to me isn't a failure if all he ends up being is a 20+ goal scorer and a consistent 40+ point player, but that would still disappoint others for a player drafted that high. As for playoffs and key games, he has never been anything more than a passenger in the playoffs (and even here in World Juniors, where he is a returning 19 year old playing in a 19 year old's tournament). Horvat was an established OHL playoff MVP, played in the memorial cup 3 times and even was a key player for us as a ROOKIE against Calgary. Jake has a paltry 23 points in 40 games in Juniors. If that's gonna be your playoff hero, you're not going anywhere. The Bruins and Kings didn't just win because they had a couple big guys, they had big guys who could score key goals. 6. Horvat came around, so will Jake. Horvat does all of the little things right, could play effectively away from the puck and filled a NEED. Over time the little things led to bigger things and his confidence also grew over the course of the season. Jake is extraneous and does not do the little things right at this level. Kenins could do the same without killing the play. Jake clearly needs development. This may seem very harsh but I've seen this movie before. Keeping him here is the same mistake the Islanders made with Niederreiter (a player like Jake who was physically ready for the NHL but not ready in any other facet). The good thing is that Jake is young and with proper development he can live up to his potential and be a solid 30+ goal scorer consistently for us. However, if the Canucks just keep him here as some pathetic crass play to the fans to be like "Look here season ticket holders, you got a local boy 6th overall playing in the NHL at 19. Plz renew" then ultimately it could be a self-fulfilling prophesy for him to become a Raffi Torres type player, which would be a damn shame and a damning indictment roster-wise on what you don't have rather than what you do have. Send him home.

Loaned to WJC.

FTFY.

Well, with this game he's making a case for his 9 games. Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata Burrows - Sutter - Hansen Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen Prust - McCann - Dorsett Vey, Kenins extras

Once his shot accuracy is normal again he should dominate.

Once his shot accuracy is back to normal he should be a dominating offensive force. Kinda wish the kid could stay and develop in Utica rather than go back to Calgary.