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Everything posted by -AJ-
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I expect this one to be a closely fought battle between Kes and Burr. I myself am again voting for Kesler. For my next nomination I'm moving to the second Russian superstar we had, Alex Mogilny.
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Shortly after Edler gets in at #10, Ohlund at #12 is voted the second greatest Canuck defenseman of all-time. Boudrias won a closely fought nominations battle with Kearns in a return to the 70s, but edged him out by one nomination. Reminder to both vote and nominate another player to be added as a voting option! For those of you who haven't seen these kinds of polls before, the way they work is you vote for who you think is the greatest/top Canuck at the position. As for what is meant by "Greatest" or "Top", I will leave that to each individual. I have my own interpretations, but others may define it differently. Worth noting, that I do want to keep this to their tenures with Vancouver and as players, thus a player like Neely would only be considered for his Vancouver time and guys like Quinn and Crawford would only be considered for their playing careers, not their coaching careers. The List: #1 - H. Sedin #2 - D. Sedin #3 - T. Linden #4 - P. Bure #5 - M. Naslund #6 - S. Smyl #7 - R. Luongo #8 - K. McLean #9 - T. Gradin #10 - A. Edler ------------------- #11 - T. Bertuzzi #12 - M. Ohlund
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Lever is already on the list of options, so he doesn't need to be nominated. Do you have another nomination?
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I close the threads to keep it clean, but I do hope that conversations will still continue as the series goes on.
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The only concern I have is that Boeser might still have some untapped potential. Toffoli isn't particularly old, but he's turning 28 in about a month and is probably at his peak right now and will soon begin declining (even if only a bit). Boeser is 23 and could easily still have another 5 years close to a point-per-game and still may become the 40-goal scorer or 80-point forward we all want.
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Voting for Selke winner and 41-goal scorer Ryan Kesler, Canuck for 10 years. Nominating Andre Boudrias once again. Interesting to note that the top 11 players are still the same as on my list--just with a slightly different order.
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Todd Bertuzzi is the first player outside of our top 10 with a pretty solid victory. Snepsts took the nominations by storm with 10 of them last round and was added as a voting option to the poll. Reminder to both vote and nominate another player to be added as a voting option! For those of you who haven't seen these kinds of polls before, the way they work is you vote for who you think is the greatest/top Canuck at the position. As for what is meant by "Greatest" or "Top", I will leave that to each individual. I have my own interpretations, but others may define it differently. Worth noting, that I do want to keep this to their tenures with Vancouver and as players, thus a player like Neely would only be considered for his Vancouver time and guys like Quinn and Crawford would only be considered for their playing careers, not their coaching careers. The List: #1 - H. Sedin #2 - D. Sedin #3 - T. Linden #4 - P. Bure #5 - M. Naslund #6 - S. Smyl #7 - R. Luongo #8 - K. McLean #9 - T. Gradin #10 - A. Edler ------------------- #11 - T. Bertuzzi
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[Signing] Kings sign Tyler Madden
-AJ- replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
Hope he does well--just not against us. Whoops! He's not a Canuck anymore. What a waste of oxygen! Skinny boy won't get anywhere! -
[Signing] Coyotes re-sign Michael Chaput
-AJ- replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
I always felt like he was unfairly lumped with Megna, but he was the better of the two IMO. -
One of the trickiest things I've found to weight is the "fan favourite factor". There are a bunch of players that often weren't incredible, but fans loved them, so they often get ranked way higher by some people. Some cases are guys like Burrows, Snepsts, Mitchell, Fraser, Williams, and Odjick. The question is, do I factor that into the "greatest Canucks"? Heck, even Linden could be added to that category and I sure as heck factored that in for him, so maybe I do. The follow-up question is how much to factor it in, which can heavily change up one's list.
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Losing top job performers to promotions from other teams isn't new. As @Coconuts mentioned, it's exactly what happened with Benning. I'd love to keep Brackett, but it would be kind of horrible for the Canucks to prevent him from the opportunity to try his hand at being a full GM if that's what he wanted.
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Throwback to the first NHL video game I ever played:
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I found that I had a lot of guys sitting around 40 that felt so wrong, but the top 30 just seems so hard to break into.
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Funny that you mention Tallon. I have Tallon at 63 on my list and Hughes at 64 right behind him. If Hughes has another year like the one he just had, I'd suspect he'll jump up to around 50 or so. I prepared a top 70 list for this so I know where I have every player in advance.
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Cheers. I do think that a lot of people forget the newer players, but it often happens that once they remember, they get a lot of favouritism. I remember doing this list way back in 2011 and guys like Kesler and Burrows were getting in as soon as they were nominated, probably because a lot of newer fans saw the name and went "Oh I know that guy!". I'm actually pleased we have so many apologists for the older players because the last time this list was done, I felt like the 80s and 70s guys got left behind a bit too much. I do think there is a place for some of even our current stars, but Hughes has just one season, so I don't even have him in my Top 50 as of now. I do have our other young guns at some place in the Top 50, but not for a while yet, as their careers have just started.
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He's looking like he might be, but he's not even sniffing the top 40 yet IMO. One season won't get it done over guys who've played 500 games for this franchise. If we do this list again in 10 years though, Hughes could feasibly be top 10.
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I'm voting for Big Bert again and nominating Andre Boudrias, the first consistent star of the Canucks.
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The top 10 is complete! Edler rounds out the top 10 as the only currently active Canuck to make the list so far. @Kevin Biestra, the ultimate Brodeur fan will be happy to hear that Richard Brodeur finally won the nomination game and was added to the voting options. Reminder to both vote and nominate another player to be added as a voting option! For those of you who haven't seen these kinds of polls before, the way they work is you vote for who you think is the greatest/top Canuck at the position. As for what is meant by "Greatest" or "Top", I will leave that to each individual. I have my own interpretations, but others may define it differently. Worth noting, that I do want to keep this to their tenures with Vancouver and as players, thus a player like Neely would only be considered for his Vancouver time and guys like Quinn and Crawford would only be considered for their playing careers, not their coaching careers. The List: #1 - H. Sedin #2 - D. Sedin #3 - T. Linden #4 - P. Bure #5 - M. Naslund #6 - S. Smyl #7 - R. Luongo #8 - K. McLean #9 - T. Gradin #10 - A. Edler
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@IBatch In 1998-99 with VAN, Aucoin scored 18 PPG, which at the time tied Denis Potvin for the record among defensemen. In 2006-07, Sheldon Souray beat them both with 19 PPG. Aucoin, of course, still has that as a record for the Canucks--the next closest to him was Rick Lanz with 14 PPG in 1983-84. Aucoin is also the only Canuck defenseman to ever have 20 or more goals in a season (23 goals in 1998-99), though Doug Halward came close with 19 in 1982-83. If you count weird records, Aucoin does have the NHL record for the largest positive difference between goals and assists for a defenseman at 12 more goals than assists in 1998-99 (23 goals, 11 assists, 34 points).
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I feel like Stone should have won it last year, but the bias towards centres hurt him.
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Free credit for TIcketmaster.
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I think way back in the day, it often went more often to the hard-nosed bottom six centres who were purely shutdown guys like Gainey and Carbonneau. Once Datsyuk came on the scene, people took notice of how he consistently led forwards in takeaways and the takeaways stat gained a lot more interest. After Datsyuk, I think face-off percentage became Selke voters' favourite stat as almost every recent Selke winner has had a face-off percentage of at least the high 50s if not into the low 60s. Of course it makes sense that a combination of many metrics would be the best overall judge. +/- has value, just does CORSI, blocked shots, takeaways, and face-off percentage do.
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+/- is a potentially very misleading stat without context. That said, I do actually agree with you. Bo has improved his face-off game and has become amazing at face-offs, but there's more to being a Selke-calibre player than winning face-offs. Bo does have reasonably strong possession metrics (49.0% CORSI For) despite having a lot of defensive zone starts (43.4% oZS). Eriksson is probably the only defensive forward who has a stronger possession metric (48.3% CORSI For with 35.5% oZS). I did a look at 11 of our better defensive forwards as though I was looking at a Selke winner (so points count) and Bo came out at 3rd on the team behind Pearson and Miller. +/- is definitely his weak spot, but his brightest spot was blocked shots per game, where he was 2nd behind only Motte. I think Horvat is slowly but surely progressing his defensive game to the point where he can get legitimate consideration for the Selke, but he's not there yet.
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I don't have Edler yet, but I do have him at 11. I don't know the reasons of others, but I assume longevity has a lot to do with it. Edler at this point has beaten every Canucks defenseman record and is starting to push further and further ahead of them all. He's over 100 games more than Ohlund at this point and over 200 games more than Kesler. For what it's worth, I have Kesler right after Edler though at 12, so they're very close IMO. In the spirit of being honest and unbiased though, I'll admit I looked up some trophy stats to see how Edler compared to Ohlund and Ohlund actually comes out on top. Edler finished 16th in Calder voting while Ohlund famously finished 2nd. Edler has only received Norris votes once, in 2011-12 when he finished 13th in voting. Ohlund has had Norris votes in two different seasons, finishing 14th in 2003-04 and as high as 10th in 2001-02, when he scored his career high of 36 points. (Another thought here is that 36 points as a career high is quite low compared to Edler). When it comes to the Babe Pratt Trophy (for the best Canucks d-man), Edler is up to three now with his win last year, tying Jovanovski--Ohlund is part of a four-way tie for first with four. It's not too often this happens, but I've actually made slight changes to my list as a result of this research bumping Ohlund up a bit.
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You are correct--we've never had a defenseman win the Cyclone Taylor. I'm not sure on the specifics of the Cyclone Taylor voting, but as far as Norris voting, Jovanovski was the closest we've ever had, finishing 6th in two consecutive years--though of course he didn't play nearly as many games as some others like Lumme, Lidster, Kearns, Ohlund, or Edler. As you say, it's also pretty obvious by voting that many fans agree that we've never had a star defenseman. I don't have Edler until #11 myself and he's the highest defenseman on my list. I think that's why we're so excited about Hughes potentially being the first superstar defenseman we've ever had.
