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oldnews

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Everything posted by oldnews

  1. They're absolutely not "just entering their prime." Get real. And they don't need to be 'defended' (or used as a springboard to sandbag the rest of their team-mates). Typical lottery-champion mindset. That's really premature and evidences that the OP doesn't really know what a 'prime' looks like. But at least it's not another one of the OP's numerous Leafs rebuild fluffing vs the Canucks suck threads.... (anyone in their right mind would realize it's beyond time/results to abandon that storyline). It's pared down - to 'don't blame two kids for not carrying the team!'....(which again, sounds a lot like a lottery championship 'build' expectations). Even at their best they are being given conditions highly conducive to their success - on very tilted ice (extremely high ozone starts) - and they struggle in the 'possession' game - at their best. In other words, their extremely high finishing ability, ability to generate very dangerous chances (and in Hughes case open the ice up), is what primarily defines their excelling in the short term. When they are not finishing/oroducing/ are struggling with their principal bread and butter, the fact that they aren't near their prime and can't really hold their own in the rest of the 200ft game, becomes amplified. There's a reason the team is built the way it is - with some useless veteran plug 'foundation' - and that period has not yet passed. Where I agree with the OP is that there is nothing to really worry about with them - they are still very young - these short term speed bumps are borderline inevitable growing pains that indicate nothing deficient in their abilities. They will be fine in due course - and when they truly enter their prime (closer to age 25) - they will be even more absolutely nightmarish players to try to deal with (assuming they remain themselves/and healthy).
  2. I think the irony about all the complaints about coaching - is that Green has not had enough time. What that indicates, imo, is how good a coach he is - as opposed to the general assumptions that this is his 'fault'. When he has time - ie a proper training camp and preseason - the team looked entirely different. And again, they don't have the 'normal' amount of time to practice in between games - they've been playing 3 in 4 nights kind of thing. It is what it is. They've had 13 players 25 and under in the lineup - and on their worst night - it was a dozen in a single game. Combine losses of veterans like Miller, Edler, Hamonic, Benn - with young 'stars' that are struggling to finish - and it's a recipe for flirting with a lottery pick. Healthy - and they're a reasonably competitive team that can beat anyone on any given night. Personally I haven't and still don't consider the core 'ready' to win. I think they have a good mix to be quite competitive under 'normal' and healthy circumstances.... But I would have probably opted to either go further "in" and moved veteran winger cap in order to either re-sign Tanev and maintain their trajectory as much as possible (Markstrom or Demko unfortunately was sealed by the e.d.) or do away with bonus cap up front this season. I think the real window for this team lies a couple seasons in the future - so I'm not anywhere near as concerned with short term results as most people in here. I still think the team has the pieces to be very competitive even in the short term, but they'll need to be relatively healthy at key positions (center and blueline) - they'll need the young core to sustain what they've been up to in recent years - and they'll need to tighten up without th puck and help their goaltending. Very little of those challenges do I expect Green to overcome by magic wand in the present circumstances. I'm not surprised to see things coming together slowly - and I think last night was a good sign - of a team starting to look like itself. They worked hard, they imo 'deserved' a better result - but that's sport - and the Habs are a very good team. I think Green has a good handle on it - and I absolutely love the amount of young talent they have - as well as the way that young talent is being developed to play the game. The two 'greenest' young players in the lineup - Hoglander and Juolevi - are not only very talented - but showing great signs of playing the game the right way without the puck.
  3. Stastny was what I meant but I called him Steen lol. Dubois may not be the sniper that Laine is, but he should bring that (hard to acquire) powerforward game (which can open up space and create problems in the hard areas...)
  4. I realize who the 2nd line is - but not sure what your point regarding them was. That they've been minus players 5on5? That tends to happen when your top 6 is struggling to finish - and guys like Horvat has on ice shooting percentages in the 5.7% range. It's an outlier that will return to the mean - and short term plus/minus is borderline meaningless, particularly with no context. What I was pointing out actually underlined your point about Sutter, Motte et al. Schmidt doesn't "suck at D" btw - he's a good two way defenseman - capable secondary penalty killer - able to handle various types of minutes - may not be a guy you'd have on your principal shutdown pairing (and wasn't brought in to be that) - but certainly doesn't "suck at D".
  5. I didn't see/read the Saad chain - but I also don't consider that a particularly relevent example of 'loss' in terms of assets. Columbus no longer has Panarin. It happens. If they still had Saad - what's the boon? He's not 'all that' - a middle six winger - 40-50 pt winger - the equivalent if this team 'lost' Pearson... Veterans move on all the time in free agency. That was a great deal for Columbus. Columbus got what they paid for - and arguably a lot more. They got two x ppg+ seasons out of Panarin (169 pts in two seasons) - that their coach underachieved the group in a real window of opportunity isn't really on the chain, it's on the coach imo. They also got Motte out of that deal - who they rented for Vanek - who gave them 15 pts in 19 games in what I'd say was a legit window. The problem - their coach got 1 playoff series win out of them over a number of season with what I consider a contending quality roster. For teams in a window - they're not necessarily going to turn these assets into long term 'chains' of profit. They blew that window. But the Saad deal was a steal for the CBJ imo.
  6. Schmidt was also a plus. The entire bottom six were even 0. Motte 100% dzone starts Beagle 100% Roussel 100% Sutter 13% , 13 dzone starts lead the team. MacEwen 20% 8dzone Virtanen 38% 8dzone They gave up nothing 5on5. Can't really ask for more from the shutdown guys imo.
  7. A good game. Good hocke to watch. The first period - they must have had a half dozen grade A chances where they scarcely came away with a sog. Still snake bitten obviously - and in spite of EP's tip in, he was out of sorts - ripped another one off the crossbar and had a hard time settling the puck down (for a guy with his hands, short term symptoms like this are no concern at all). Was concerned to see MacEwen taking draws early, with Sutter on his wing on that line. An ongoing concern - has been Sutter playing a lot of wing (when imo the team is better/stronger with him centering a line). I have to wonder if it's a sign that he's just not healthy - obviously has had a lot of injury problems here - was unable to really take draws as the playoffs progressed last year....when Miller was out - and Gaudette centering a line, they were simply overmatched. Sutter has been playing well imo - but it's starting to look like his shoulder (or w.h.y.) might not be enabling him to handle the more demanding center duties. I liked the team's effort and execution last night - short of the finishing (which is always an 'x' factor). They will tend to finish with fairly high efficiency with this group imo (over large samples) - so otherwise I found their game promising. I thought the Beagle penalty was about as absurd as they come - a zebra looking for something to whistle - and I thought the Gallagher gwg came when the Habs clearly should have been in the box. Horrible zebra performance last night - had an impact on the game imo. Beagle and Motte - once again - were outstanding imo. I thought Juolevi looked good in spite of a few 'mistakes' - handled very hard minutes (11% ozone starts 5on5) including some critical penalty killing minutes. Liked MacEwen's energy - and the bottom 6 in general (Roussel was notably more aggressive and needs to continue to be). Schmidt is looking like he's starting to get a bit more comfortable (although it's been a chaotic start here).... All in all a promising game despite the loss imo. If they approach every game like that, they'll win more than they lose, particularly once their young core gets more productive.
  8. I think because it gets repeated all the time - without much basis (perhaps that was his scouting report out of junior) - Scott whatshisface repeated this last night in the CBC intermission when they reviewed the deal. That said - I don't think it's integral to Winnipeg winning the deal. Regardless of whether Dubois develops into that player (he's prematurely characterized as) - I still think the conditions for his success will be very good in Winnipeg - and the Jets don't need him to come in and be that player - at least not short term. They have: Scheifele = a clear 1C. Lowry - a very solid 3C that can handle hard minutes/good faceoff guy and hard to play against. Steen - a very good defensive forward / natural center. Copp - a good depth center (and another good faceoff guy) - and another principal penalty killing center (Lowry the other). Nate Thompson - a very good hard minutes depth center - great faceoff guy and hard to play against (on IR presently). Wheeler is also capable of stepping into center minutes and himself a respectable faceoff guy. Little also has utility as a two way forward (and they have Jansen Harkins in the system). Roslovic in a sense was probably about as tradeable as assets get. Chevy tends to build his teams this way (ie last year they have Eakin and Letestu in the mix as well) - I couldn't agree with the approach more - you can never have too many natural centers, two way forwards, or guys that can handle hard minutes imo. So the Jets are a group that doesn't necessarily need Dubois to handle 'two way' minutes - they can feed him opportunities - or they can utilize him as a winger - and in either event, it would appear like pretty good conditions for him to be successful (what they'll probably want/need from him is to be a productive powerforward at this point (and arguably could/should be a comparable to Laine in that sense).
  9. That stuff may be entertaining to speculate about - but in the end there's no real substance to it aside from trying to crystal ball really complicated situations. I tend to prefer to look at their outcomes/performance to date - in as much context as I can glean (which is always still very limited) - which at least bases any assessment on what they've actually done to date. I don't see either of them as 'diminishing returns' in spite of the present drama. I suppose it's fair to project more drama based on what's been seen to date - but particularly in Dubois' case, the Torts-effect is so repetitive - we've seen it countless times - so it's hard to pin the result on Dubois (part of me respects that he drew the line). If I were 'betting' on those two players, I'll take Dubois - for a range of reasons. 1) Perhaps Laine learns to tolerate Tortorella - or perhaps Tortorella tolerates Laine and refrains from busting his balls - (there are certain types of players that thrive under Tortorella - I don't know if Laine is one of those) however, I'd be betting on that relationship deteriorating over Dubois in Winnipeg. I'm not a big fan of Maurice either, but that has more to do with tactical reasons and the inconsistency of the Jets with such a great group over the past number of years. Tortorella ditto in a tactical sense - but to another level, and add his dysfunctional approach to the liabilities. The Jets challenges of recent imo are not as reducible to Maurice. 2) Laine expires at the end of this season. He has about a half season to integrate into a Columbus roster that is a question mark at the critical center position (lots of young talent there - a group I really like - but again, Tortorella's effect is a wildcard. Columbus will be negotiating with him to re-up in short order. They do have some cap clearing but I'd probably be more uncomfortable with the terms Laine might command - whereas with Dubois they have more time, and imo, I'd also bet on Dubois upticking more than Laine - where if Laine sustains what he's done, I'd call that a win - I think there's far less chance of him improving upon outcomes to date. 3) Dubois imo steps into more opportune circumstances than the ones he's leaving. He won't be the principal forward dealing with constant top shutdown matchups - he'll be stepping into a deep, talented forward group that is very solid down the middle. He also has a couple years term - will remain an RFA after expiring (as will Laine)... Both very talented players - that I would not assume will 'decline'/bust anytime soon. On the point of their value (or possibility of it diminishing) - I think of Tortorella's drama about having spent all this time on Dubois - as if he/they would would be losing on that investment in dealing him. I thought that was bullcrap - and it turned out to be exactly that - as Columbus in fact regained comparable assets in this deal. If I'm betting on diminishing value - I look at the trail of career worst seasons left in the wake of Tortorella - a lot of players whose production took a tailspin playing Tortorella systems (with few exceptions) - and Laine is a player who is about production first and foremost. I like the 'risk' the Jets took here - and I would bet on Dubois upticking. Roslovic has shown nothing to indicate that he'll be the best asset in the deal - and I think for that to be the case would require a phenomenal breakout from him - and/or some real bust from Dubois and Laine - that's a bit too longshot for me (but as with these kinds of 'predictions'/speculation - you never really know)
  10. https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/ Here's the breakdown of teams' projected top 20 players (ie the guys that would ostensibly actually be on the ice). The Canucks are the 4th youngest - and that's with Pettersson projected as their youngest player(at 22.2) - with Eriksson in the lineup. It projected 3 players in the 20-24 age range. Last game Boeser Chatfield Gaudette Hoglander Hughes Juolevi Pettersson Virtanen That's 8. And it doesn't factor in 4 x 25 year olds - one a goaltender (Demko), another their captain (Bo), and another that was playing their 3rd NHL game (Rafferty)....the 4th is Motte, who is as 'veteran' as a 25yr old gets - but still = young. 12 out of 20 = 25 yrs and under.
  11. this is some of your worst, pseudo 'analytical' stuff yet. you can do better than this.
  12. I agree. He's also had his moments where he's looking like he's skating well. He' s a good mid range NHL D - he's just struggled considerably early and had a lot of notable instances where he was really rusty / and a few questionable decisions... I think he'll be fine as the 3RD in due course (assuming he returns to health).
  13. "The best part of the trade part" also has a huge hill to climb wadr. But if you're suggesting he'll be the only piece remaining on either team in the distant future...well....maybe - but that's not saying much if you're assuming parralel situations to those other CBJ asset chains. Roslovic through age 23 67 pts (.37 ppg) 180 games (12:13 ice time) 56.2% ozone starts 50.2% corsi 110 hits, 52 blocks 63 takeaways, 68 giveaways, -5 Virtanen 96 pts (.34 ppg) 285 games (12:48 ice time). 48.4% ozone starts 48.8% corsi 566 hits, 120 blocks 164 takeaways, 102 giveaways, +62 A bunch of people thinking Winnipeg 'overpaid' - seemingly implying that Roslovic was worth more than the 3rd round pick thrown in beyond the Dubois/Laine hockey trade.... I'm not so sure (ie. many people around here would have walked away from Virtanen's rights for nothing in return...)
  14. wat? sorry, but wat does any of that have to do with your claim that Roslovic will be the future captain?
  15. ftfy. He had one minor penalty heading into that gong-show last game (where he picked up 16 of his 18 pm this season). A few ticky tack ('too much man' penalties) - and a couple well worth it. [I'll be happy with every 2 minutes he takes for punching Tkachuk in the face, particularly if he picks his spots]. And only had 49 pm all of last season so I do believe you embellish.
  16. In the past 4 years, there have been 5 x 60+ pt seasons - combined. Panarin 2x, Atkinson 2x, Dubois 1. The Jets have had 15. The Tortorella effect. As it was when he was here. Top to bottom, virtually everyone on the roster had career worst seasons. 1 x 50 pt player (Henrik) in Torturefella's season here. I mean people hated WD - but he took that group and got 101 pts out of it (and 2 x 70+, plus 1 x 60+ pt season). Tortorella has had lineups like this: Panarin Dubois Atkinson Duchene Anderson Jenner Bjorkstrand Foligno Wennberg Dubinsky Dzingel Nash Milano Texier Jones Werenski Murray Savard Nutivaara Harrington Kukan Carlsson Bobrovsky Korpisalo He's won one round of playoffs with them.... Any coach could/would/should be 'competitive' with groups like that. They've underachievd under him.
  17. A "3rd" pairing D that averaged 21:40 of ice time in 5 seasons in Winnipeg And 35 pts per 82 games. 2-3 minutes / game of penalty killing every season (primary pk minutes), including leading the team in pk ice time in one of those seasons. Cool story though.
  18. ? Bjorkstrand's .74 ppg = 60pts per 82 - as I pointed out - as large a gap between Laine's linemates and Dubois' than Laine and Dubois themselves. Atkinson's .6 ppg = 49 pts per 82 - a gap of 23 pts between him and Scheifele, Connor. So the point of what you think helps your point - is only underlined by what was 'failed' to be mentioned - and additionally the point remains that Dubois only had the advantage of those linemates for 44 and 49 games while otherwise playing with replacement top 6 (as opposed to Laine (Scheifele and Connor played all 71 games last year). Winnipeg has had 3 X 60+, 70+, 80+, 90+ pt players - not named Laine - in each of the past four seasons.
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