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you sure you're in the right thread? seems the OP was referring to the team's health. Folks here are interested in winning btw - going to the games isn't really the measurng stick.
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If you're going to go through consecutive seasons with injuries that run deep enough - principally to your 'foundation'/veterans - that it effectively handicaps your season - then you may as well do so in the midst of transition seasons when it actually enhances your draft position - honestly - and gives you chances to audition players that are legitimately near NHL ready. In the early stages - that homegrown prospect talent from within was not there. But last year, and this year, arguably, the counterpoints to the injuries are increasingly more positive, if that makes sense. The team is clearly deeper - with more young talent pushing for ice time. I think management may have conceded at the deadline that a cinderella playoff birth was probably not going to happen - however, those guys remaining standing evidently didn't get the memo and acquitted themselves awfully well down the stretch thus far. Hopefully the consistently excessive amount of injuries can come to an end however - because moving forward the team is 'transitioning' back to competitiveness imo - so ideally that M.A.S.H. reality can cease / coincide with when the results didn't necessarily matter as much. I do think the group can take some pride in never really resorting to a shameless, intentional tankshow - hopefully that honesty, work ethic, do-it-yourself thing can continue to translate. When you look at the character of players like Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Stecher, etc - it's a pretty promising core of character imo.
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I think if Baer gets healthy, the Pearson acquisition might spell the end of Goldobin's window. Probably won't know until the roster needs to be set for next season, but despite the addition of Pearson, it wouldn't surprise me if they go out and add another UFA winger. I really like the Leivo acquisition but he's also likely only placeholding this high up in the lineup and likely winds up a bottom 6 winger once the team is remotely healthy. Getting outproduced by Roussel also doesn't really bode well for Goldy.... It's lining up to be a very competitive camp next year for forwards....with the possiblity that they could also wind up with a reasonably high pick this year in a fairly forward weighted top end of the draft. Goldy probably needed to play his best hockey consistently this year - but tailed off and really didn't seize the opportunity (still a bit of a window for him, but not looking great for him here.
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Yes - Green's top forwards - the guys that eat the most minutes are typically 3 centers with a top line winger in the mix. Horvat, EP/ Boeser, Sutter....that's how a Green depth chart typically breaks down. Love all the solid two way wingers in the mix - but those guys play the biggest roles - and in spite of being 'only' a 4th line C, Beagle is arguably as important as most of the other wingers in the lineup as well imo - and certainly when any of those other 3 are out of the lineup (as in in the present, and unfortunately, all too regularly).
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And, realistically, if Baertsch were healthy, he's still easily worth a late 2nd round pick - ditto with Dorsett, who was easily worth a 3rd round pick when he retired (a healthy Dorsett may have actually returned an uptick on the pick spent for him) - and Sutter likewise - was acquired for another placeholder (from the Kesler deal), and no picks were actually 'spent' in that deal - what actually happened was a pick swap of a late 2nd for high 3rd - a relatively inconsequential one imo given Brisebois is a guy presently in the NHL, a pick they may have made late in the 2nd as opposed to 5 picks into the 3rd in any event (some good D in that draft, but we don't know if a marginal trade down effected their targets in any way).
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[Signing] Bruins re-sign Zdeno Chara
oldnews replied to -Vintage Canuck-'s topic in Trades, Rumours, Signings
He has some insane numbers for a 41/42 year old. 20:59 ice time / game 46.7% ozone starts (lowest on the B's blueline), 53.7% corsi 2.9 on ice goals for, 2.1 against per 60. Production may be down to 11 pts (55g), but remains a +16. Hard to beat that for a 1yr 3 million term.... That said, Edler plays more minutes, harder minutes, produces considerably more, hits more, blocks more shots....with a revolving door of injured partners..... Not really comparables at this point. -
I'd rather see Virtanen on that line - but regardless, they have been really good. The other night against Ottawa - an exception to the norm recently with Horvat's line handling huge amounts of hard minutes.... They got 57.1% ozone starts (Horvat - with a half dozen d-zone starts compared to his typical workload of 15-20 a night), 58.3% (Pearson) and 75% (LE - who is at 38.4% for the season).... That line broke out for 10 points and combined +7.....nice to see LE convert some. But looking forward - would love to see a Pearson Horvat Virtanen line....heavy, hard, two way line that is hard to handle and can handle pretty much any matchup.... If they have a relatively healthy bottom six in behind them - it sure bodes well for EP's line as well - if these guys are presenting another threat opponents need to matchup against, as opposed to seeing this line being the matchup line targetting the opponent's top 6 (a large part of the reason I like having the Sutter-Beagle 1-2 shutdown punch at center).
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your one line histories are, unfortunately as relatively shallow - by necessity - as they are short. your prerogative - if you prefer oversimplified twitter history. What 'everyone' knew is debatable. If you weren't as myopic about the context Benning inherited - or what preceded it - there might be some insight there, particularly with what happened with Gillis, and the hiring of Tortorella. I'd be interested to hear you explain that away as something 'everyone' knew.
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I think there is a draft thread - started by @Provost if I'm not mistaken? Strange that draft threads would fall down the cue for discussion - but we do tend to gravitate towards the more 'controversial' / loaded stuff.... Correction - that thread was a college FA thread. Looks like a draft thread is in order...
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I don't think a guy like MDZ was brought in as a powerplay expert - at all - but that's an aside for the most part. I think the better examples of expensive transition assets are LE and Vrbata. LE = obviously did not pan out as hoped. Vrbata - unfortunately played well for some time here but had very little value - or willingness to be rented - when it mattered. I think the MDZ, Gagme type signings are relatively inconsequential - mid to low range, mid to short term deals that don't really represent problems and don't overlap into important future windows. The spending to the cap phenomena might be seen as a contradiction in a transition - but I think there is context that makes it 'understandable'. First, being a 'rich' hockey market, it's hard to justify/rationalize otherwise when you're expecting people to fork out big sums of money for tickets, etc. I also think the relative lack of a prospect pool or youth made it relatively inevitable that they'd go to the UFA market for placeholders for at least a 3 - 4 year period....And I also think the significant lost value - of devalued veteran assets they were hoping to move as part of a transition - needed some rebuilding itself - rebuild before the rebuild in a sense - to make some of those transition assets regain some marketable value in the first place. Some of that worked out poorly - Vanek, Gagner, LE, etc - some of it turned out well - Vanek, Burrows, Hansen (and I'd argue Beagle, Dorsett, Roussel for other reasons).... But my take would be the signings like MDZ - who was serviceable enough here and returned a late pick (nothing special but better than nothing) - as did Nilsson - were relatively decent if unimpressive results. Was never a big fan of the LE signing - I'd have preferred a different type of player (Okposo = at the time) - and I didn't particularly like the Miller signing - but I'm more than prepared to acknowledge that Benning had a far better take on that situation than I did (I wanted a Thomas Greiss type signing - but Miller in the end is very difficult to argue with). I just thinkt the cap thing was more a matter of optics - and somewhat business necessity - than it was any kind of indication of the delusion that they were going to 'win' in the shorter term. When people are spending 200 or 300 on tickets - and an owner is hoping to remain relatively 'competitive' - it's pretty much unjustifiable to roll with a team that is 15 or 20 million under the cap. In the end, I'm guessing the revenues might have justified the cap expenditures - a reasonable enough business decision on the part of ownership who I doubt wanted to see a dramatic dropoff in engagement - because let's be real - Vancouver is as about as fair-weather as any other (Canadian) market.
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Maybe try easing up on the absolutes Guardian. This isn't about "hating" critical thinking or critical thinkers. And it's not about kneeling at the feet of idols and 'hating' anyone that disagrees with their ominipotent ideology or criticizes particular actions. Maybe we can leave this religious-like absolutism / mind-numbing stuff out of it - and attempt to have a conversation. Ironcially, that's what 'both sides' (I don't see it like that as there are countless individuals here and the idea of 'sides' fall apart with context and complexity) - purport to want, but I see very few examples of it. Instead there's a tendency to get caught up in relatively thoughtless binary nonsense. Everyone should know that every General Manager, every management group makes good moves and 'bad' moves - makes gains and mistakes.
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I can't agree with you - at all - regarding Rutherford - and could make a long list for you of counterpoints that do not fit this story....briefly and very recently - the cost of acquiring and then dumping Brassard, Reaves, Sheahan....but there are also the counterpoints - ie Bonino, Gud, Bjugstad, McCann. I think he was at considerable odds with Mike Johnston and pretty much by default/accident/perfect storm had Sullivan take over and refit what wasn't working in mid course. I think it's Sulllivan that deserves more of the credit - but way beyond that - when you inherit a core of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, DuMoulin, sprinkle in a Guentzel, Maata here and there...it gives you a lot to work with imo and a larger margin of error within which they can still be successful. With a guy like Kessel - another good example of an acquisition that was failing but.....it doesn't hurt when you can take an 8 million guy and throw him on your '3rd' line with a center like Bonino - and cause literal matchup nightmares for teams attempting to deal with the Crosby Malkin lines.....not sure that was Rutherford's intention - at all - when he acquired Kessel - I think it was more a perfect storm...but whatever mistakes Rutherford has made - and it's pretty easy to identify a fair number of them - the Pens are asset rich enough that they didn't really matter enough / did not outweigh their trajectory. Arguably the Brassards, Sheahans, Reaves types may be 'worth' it when they are balanced against the counterpoints like Schultz - if you don't take risks, make mistakes/failures, you're probably not going to hit the exceptions/home-runs either? And maybe Rutherford does deserve more credit - he did hire Sullivan - to coach their AHL club....I'm just not sure there are many GMs out there that could not have won with what he inherited - imo that club was at a point where it was close to winning virtualy on auto-pilot.
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C'mon ilduce. Everyone knows that any progress can and should be attributed to the myth that a high pick is all it takes to make a roster. Boeser, Gaudette, Demko....all just luck of the accidental tank lol. EP meanwhile - is carrying the team singlehandedly!! No need for depth, shutdown guys, etc.....all progress is owed to a high pick. It might be time for folks to pump the brakes on believing in saviours. EP is great - no question about that. But let's look at some realities around his rookie season. First - he's had 69.7% ozone starts. Those have been furnished by the likes of Sutter, Beagle and Horvat. When the team had a second scoring line - ie when Sutter was in the lineup and Horvat was not forced into shutdown duty - EP's line was as 'planned' = they had hard-minutes shutdown support from the 'bottom 6' - and they had a second threat for opponents to handle = Horvat's line, which was likewise producing very nicely in less d-weighted minutes. A healthier blueline did not hurt either. At this point - EP has been producing 9 pts in his last 14 games...very respectable - but not what he was capable of in more opportune circumstances. Lots of factors - including a young guy that has been keyed on, targetted and must be tired in his first NHL grind - as well as a team whose depth has been depleted, that doesn't really have a second scoring line or half it's shutdown veterans.... But the 'underlying' reality is that EP's success is within the context of a team - that provides him as optimal as possible conditions within which to produce. He's not 'carrying' any team - if anything this team has been far more on the back of Horvat than Pettersson. And as hard as EP plays - as much attention as he pays to playing a 200ft game / being responsible defensively - the reality is that his 'possession' numbers are barely above the watermark - with heavily o-weighted minutes. In other words - like the Sedins before him - he is largely a benefactor of a team built to complement him. EP's corsi is 52.1%. That is a fair margin of territory that his line surrenders..that is made up by his team-mates (as it should be). For that imo Benning, Green et al deserve a lot of credit. Despite the M.A.S.H. reality - the team remains relatively competitive. Last time I looked that was not on the backs of Hughes, Juolevi...and moreso on the backs of Boeser, Gaudette, Demko....none of whom were the 'high picks' that the obsessive narrative over-rides. Even at this stage, it's a well-built, well-coached team that is not simply a lottery champion....Benning deserves more credit than he gets among this crowd that wedded themselves to his failure years ago and are unable to look realistically at the progress at this point.
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Derp. Your concept of 'facts' is laughable. Look at the games that post - on the 16th - was referring to and you'll see why you earned a confused face - a derp would have been preferable but 'confused face' is the simpler option when a poster isn't worth the waste of words. But, but look at the 'latest game' where the facts are different lol (and Letang/Dumoulin are back to their top pairing....) Whatever soothes your wounded ego. What a sad lot - of posters stung by the fact Gudbranson is performing well in Pittsburgh - weakly seeking solace and corroboration for their obsession and contempt for the player - but ironically coming to the wrong place. Gudbranson in Pitts: 47.5% ozone starts 56.5% corsi 1.1 on ice goals against per 60 minutes 5 on 5. 2.3 on ice goals for. +5 30 hits 15 blocked shots. 19:34 ice-time/game. Painful 'facts' to the egos of people that so strangely (to put it nicely) bank on a player's failure.
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I've liked Pearson's game recently. Not looking at/worried about his production at this point - 2 goals, 3pts in 10 games isn't what some might hope, but at the same time he's playing with Horvat, who is drawn (once again) into shutdown duty in the absence of Sutter. Last night - Pearson at 30.8% ozone starts (53.3% corsi) - thought that line was really effective against the Hawks. Horvat with 15 dzone starts (after 20 the night before) = exposed Toews;) Overall Pearson at 39.8% ozone starts, with respectable 'possession' numbers (47.4% corsi) - but bringing a bit more heaviness to the forward group. Looking forward to what that line will look like when the team is healthy - with Sutter and Beagle lines intact, Horvat was up over 50% ozone starts (earlier in the season) - the team has that second scoring line, those guys production spike significantly (as does EP's....)
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Or that you keep until you become that team....? Anyhow - on another matter, I've liked Pearson's game lately - he's not producing a lot - but he's also in a Horvat type situation where that line is divided off to handle a lot of shutdown duty, so it's hard to judge them on production. As for this thread....well I like pie.
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i'll be surprised if Biega found the press box. He may have started as a #8 - but at this point he's 3 among those left standing - and played 25 minutes last night. Schenn might be the guy - to remain - in the press box. But Woo still has at least one playoff series to go (against the Blades).
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14 goals....not bad. It'll still be odd to see a Royals playoff game with no Hannoun in the lineup....
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that looks pretty good imo - even if one or two may not be ready - or Tryamkin doesn't return quite yet... Edler/Hutton in the meantime and maybe a placeholder for Woo's spot, but that's a pretty good homegrown blueline imo.
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LOL. No, you didn't.