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iinatcc

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Everything posted by iinatcc

  1. Benning would have been a 3/10 w/o the OEL trade with the OEL trade Benning is still a 3/10 + one Dr. Strangelove
  2. I want to ask first ... Seriously take a chill pill. You sound like you are going to explode. Or at least tone down the profanity. Chil.pill. It's only hockey, this is all for fun. There's also that 2 to 3 month in that inaugural season where Vegas was on their 3rd string goalie (Malcolm Subban). Question is if they couldn't outscore their problems or if they were playing a style of hockey that was so wreckless that it would lead to individual efforts and high scoring but poor defesive play? This was a talking point by people int the media. But you are right goaltending is important, Demko was elite last season and it's not like the Canucks made the playoffs either. Benning overhauled the scouting department and what did that result? 4 players currently in the main roster. Good drafting usually means you are able draft (and develop) players in the later rounds too (look how the Red Wings built their last cup winning core, or Tampa with Point, Kucherov, and Palat. Benning is a better drafting record than Gillis but what is amounted to? A core that hasn't won anything. Plus Judd Brackett walking out of the organization isn't really a good sign. Gillis had his problems, and he admitted as much, sure but at least he took the team 1 game from winning the cup. His efforts as a front office manager also made him GM of the Year. He also was smarter in structuring contracts to players w/o overpaying most of them (except maybe Luongo). As for short sightedness Benning gave away so many draft picks and prospects for short term gain so I don't see how he's less short sighted than Gillis. But none of these really matter big picture. The Big Picture is results. You can list all the mistakes and errs Gillis did but he was one win from winning the cup and, during his time, a 2nd round playoff exit would be considered a failure. Benning, the bubble aside, has never reached the playoffs with he core he built and there was no upward trajectory from where he started the rebuild to when he left. Even now the team is trying to figure things out. Drafting, trading, and signing is only secondary in how to gauge a GM. And it's results or the tragectory of the team that matters. Look at Yzerman he flopped so many times in the 1st round picks but made up for it in other areas and basically built a powerhouse elite team. Rangers didn't exactly do well in the draft either but target key players to retool quickly and be an elite team again. Funny thing is, in terms, of metrics Benning actually did set himself a 2 year timeline for this team to be ready to contend. And right now I don't think they will reach that target next season. I think I admitted that the current cap problems is also due to this management's decisions. But OEL and Garland has not panned out for this team. Even if you argue they are good Players that's $12 million in the cap and still no playoff appearances since bringing them. So there was no net positive the team had by acquiring them and adding $12 million and giving up a 1st and 2nd round pick. But again I don't know why are you dragging this current management team down, I don't recall praising Rutherford and Allvin either. Wait you said the Sedins pressured ( or heavily influenced) Benning are you saying those two are the only resources Benning had? I would think making decision likes this requires the advice of more experienced people in the hockey management field. Let's use real life as an example, if you had 25 or so years in your profession would you ask people w/o any prior experience making a critical decision. Because this is what Benning did if he indeed was pushed by the Sedins. There was an article in the Athletic that values OEL's and Myers' current contract value with heir actual value (actual performance). I think Myers actual cap value is 2 million. I forgot OEL's. anyways 13 Million is probably to steep for a non-elite shutdown pairing especially when the average is probably much lower than that.
  3. There was a criticism about Benning in Sportsnet some years back and it's similar to the idea you mentioned. That Benning seems to hope for "best case scenario" when he makes his decisions. The problem here is that if you are optimistic everything will work out and make decisions purely on that, when something goes wrong there's very little wiggle room in correcting the issue.
  4. I think you could make a Haiku about Benning.
  5. I can see Chicago doing this. They have the Draft Picks and if Winnipeg is looking to rebuild. It might be a good fit. Imagine Dubois and Berdard as your Top 2 centers. Of course my understanding is that Winnipeg won't rebuild but they could always flip those picks they get from Chicago for a player. Seattle might be a good partner too Berniers + Dubois would be good.
  6. I think people missed the point completely in evaluating if Benning is a good GM or not. Most arguments here are not quantifiable metrics in assessing a GM. Drafting a core, how many NHL players you draft, or even making dumb trades like the OEL one aren't ways a GM's performance should be measured, especially when that person has been the GM for 8 years. The only important metrics (in a Hockey Product point of view) are: How many Stanley Cups won How many Playoff Appearances were there How many Playoff Rounds did the team win How many Regular Season wins the team had Where were the team in the Regular Season standings Those are the real metrics and with Benning's record they don't look good. So Drafting, Trading, etc. those are secondary and insignificant to the big picture and that's winning.
  7. Well with that argument what has Petey, Hughes, and Demko as a core done? Give or take the core is at its 5th or 4th year and is in their 3rd head coach (if this happened to the Oilers we'd all be laughing at the team right now) Edit .. I guess my point is there is really nothing that sets this core apart from any other team. And I imagine if you ask other fanbases not many will set the Canucks core apart from any other average team
  8. Well 32 of them. Point is saying a GM can draft players is a low hanging fruit Not saying anyone could do it but it's not the deciding factor of what makes a good GM. As the guys in Sportsnet say drafting is a very small part of a GMs duties and most of it lies in the Scouting department anyways
  9. Oh the flip side the core is the driving force of the team. The Pens won one of their recent cup with a pretty average defense lineup if I recall
  10. So you have two guys who were basically glorified interns (no disrespect to the Sedins but they had no management experience prior to this) pushing the General Manager, who has years of experience working in management, to make this decision? If the Sedins made a mistake they made a mistake. But if I had 20+ years experience in the programming field but I made a decision on an important component because an Intern forced me to develop it this way and the program causes a crash. I probably can't go and say the intern told me to do it. Heck I'd probably be fired
  11. It's not just OEL is it ? OEL is bad enough since it adds 7 million not just in the cap but how much you would allocate for new defensemen. But besides OEL it's Garland and his near 5 million dollar cap hit. It's also giving up a 9th overall and 2nd round pick with it. So it's a combination of inefficient cap problems and sacrificing your future. Add to the ripple effects of this move Let's not forget this management group had to give a 2nd to offload Dickinson. Something needed due to these cap issues (which I admit was also this managements doing as well) and now we are talking about giving up more assets just to get out of Garlands contract.
  12. You realize a GMs job isn't just to draft and trade right ? In fact it's a miniscule part of a GMs day to day activities. The fact there were stories about the front office being in shambles and key people in the Scouting department leaving the organization indicates something was wrong in the office. Gillis was anything but short sighted. He tried to find ways in findings new innovations and advancements to manage the team and for players to perform at a high level. The things he did like in analytics and hiring sleep doctors to help players with the travel and timezone shifts likely attributed to the teams performance.
  13. Podkolzin was demoted back to the AHL though. So we don't even know how he will turn out. I don't know building a good core argument isn't a good one if the core hasn't done anything yet. You have to have done something to be considered good. Assembling talent players in a roster doesn't make a good core, otherwise could argue that Oilers had a good core with Eberle, Hall, and RNH.
  14. Basically the team sunk when Demko was either hurt or not playing at a elite level to bail the team out. If a team can't withstand a period w/o their top goalie playing in top form then the team isn't very good. I mean look who Vegas has in net in the playoffs (or for the entire season for that matter) and the Vegas hasn't missed a beat
  15. Being able to draft players (especially in the 1st round) is the minimum requirement of a GMs responsibility. And I'm pretty sure the other 31 other General Managers were able to draft their franchise players in the 1st round. If this is reason enough to make someone a good general manager then we set the bar really low for general managers. As for the players in the AHL they have yet to actually be NHL regulars. And currently nobody in the farm system (aside from Demko) actually became regular NHL players. So, so far development via the AHL has also been kind of bad.
  16. If the Sedins, who were like entering their first year as entry level management position, can greatly inflence the GM and President of Hockey Operations then you are not a very good GM Benning 25+ years scouting/executive/management experience ... let me ask the guys who just started in a decision that could potentially cripple the franchise and base my decision mostly on that. Also if you need goaltending to bail you out then the team isn't any good. OEL is good his first year and got worse the next year. It's not a good sign if your 7 million Dman is already starting to noticably decline after one year with the team and for 4 more seaons
  17. This is good point (although I think he was way below average ) the though I say the problem isn't so much inexperience the problem is that he's a Hockey Guy first but not really a person who can run an NHL organizaiton. Funny is people actually thought this was a good quality in him. Take this post for example ... The problem is the most important quality of being a GM is being a business man or someone more in the business and operations side of things. I am not saying having a good hockey mind is not important but there's a reason why Wayne Gretzky isn't running things at the NHL level. Benning ran a team like somoene who didn't understand the organizational side of things. He ran things as a hockey coach or scout which means he could identify some good players but is totally clueless in managing them or not overpaying to acquire them. To me Benning ran the Canucks how Coach Gordon Bombay ran the Ducks. A complete mess but, unlike the movies, Benning was running a world class professional Organisation and this is real life.
  18. This is sarcasm right ? I counted 3
  19. Do you think he still walks around the Canucks office thinking he's still part of the organization? Like the Canucks set up a fake office for him
  20. Funny thing is I didn't vote ( I think I might have been on vacation in Estonia) ... but if I did I would also have said yes at the time Though if people want to come after me ... just look for the Petterson draft thread
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