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Everything posted by Darius
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Ollie's odds are no different than Tkachuck's odds. In the end someone picked #15-20 could be the star of this whole draft. Who knows. There are some very knowledgeable hockey people that project this guy to be a #1 dman, ... #2 seems to be this guys projected floor. This was a wise move for the organisation. There were no elite young D men in the system. The bottom line is #1-#2 dmen are much harder to obtain via free ageny or trades than are 20-30 goal scoring wingers who arent particularly fast. Its not like Tkachuck is some elite scorer. If all things pan out he will probably play on calgary's second line. Guys like that come around more than top 2 dmen do.
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Was listening to 1040 where BMAC had Shane Malloy on. Malloy, a USHL scout, hosts a radio program regarding hockey prospects and he was highly complimentary of Juloevi and stated he has all the tools to be a number 1 dman. Also said he was highly intelligent and saw some Lidstrom-esque components in his game - the way he stays calm in all situations and makes the right play very consistently. Malloy said that the Canucks made the right pick for their organization. You just dont pass up on stud Centers and D men because they are o so hard to find.... Click the link and go to about 47:20 to hear the interview: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/bmac-donnie-the-moj-june-27-hour-3-1.516708
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Ive been all over the message boards and the only fans talking about the Canucks are the tools at calgaryschmuck . com. But thats not surprising, they dedicate half of their threads to everything Vancouver. They keep boasting about how their young players are so much better, but fail to recognize they have been sucking the bottom of the barrel for a lot longer than Vancouver has which has allowed them to draft in the top 6 a few times. Also, if I were them I wouldnt be mocking the Joulevi pick. Projected top 2 d men are a hell of a lot harder to come by than led footed projected 2nd line wingers. Also, they had to give up a first rounder and 2 second rounders for Dougie Hamilton - their young top 2 dman- and yup that worked out so great for them they were shopping him to move up to number 3 in the draft.
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A guy who can move the puck also makes the forwards so much better. Remember how a guy like Salo used to make the great first pass out of the D zone...when Salo was out of the lineup their record hovered around .500 when he was in the lineup they were racking up wins like crazy and making a march to the cup...this was a smart move even though it wasnt as 'sexy' as picking a forward.
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To add to this....I suspect Tkachuck will get into the league before Joulevi because D men take longer to develop. These boards will melt down when he racks up some points playing on the cgy second line...or if they put him on the PP in the preaseason with Bieber Monahan and the hockey gnome...
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A young matt cooke!
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Im giddy just thinking about having a guy on the blue line that might be able to knock other guys off of the puck and put them on their rear every now and then. Thats a big step up from the massage and wellness spa the current vancouver D is running in the D zone.
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Just read a stat in the province - Linden Vey has 4 times the ice time Jake has, yet Vey only has 2 goals to show for it. Is Vey that much better than Jake defensively? Or is willy just nuts?
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I think that coaching has something to do with how he toned down his hitting game. He came out hitting everything at the start of the year - there were about 3 or 4 games in a row where he became a target. That AHL plug fought him in New Jersey (farnham..was it...im too lazy to google it), he had a target on his back in Dallas after he nailed Nichuskin etc. I think coaching has something to do with his lack of hitting - they probably feel hes better off working on the weaker parts of his game than running around nailing guys and either ending up in the box for 2 or sitting out for 5 after he gets jumped into a fight. Just my opinion.
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I think my point was that you cant look at WJC stats as a predictor of NHL success (hodgson and his tournament leading 16 pts is a good example). I know it looks like I was comparing them and I should have been clearer. I still think that some people would have been shredding trev back in 88 for his 1 pt if boards like these existed!
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I think its ok to be disappointed in his performance, I certainly was. I was expecting him to be a stand out relative to his peers. Hes not dealing with NHL men here, it boys his age or younger. Im just scratching my head at so many people in these forums writing the guy off already. I bring up Linden as an example , 1 pt in 7 games a the WJC. Imagine if these hockey forums existing bad then - people would be shredding trev. And how about all those other players who were successful in the NHL who didnt even make the team. A more recent example is a guy like Sean Monahan who didnt make the cut the first time he was eligible. He didnt make the cut and he went on the next year to light it up with the Calgary Flames. This 4 game stretch is a blip. Lets make the assessment when Jake is 23 or 24. And as McCannon says above Jake is capable of bringing many intangibles to the table. He could deliver a hit that turns around a game or he can withstand playoff physicality better than a guy like Vrbata. Some people need to calm down!
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Before some you guys get too wound up about Jake's performance keep this in mind : Trevor Linden had 1 pt in 7 games in his WJC in 1988 and Cody Hodgson had 16 points in 6 games back in 2009. Who would you say has had a bigger impact in the NHL? Im going to panic if Jake is 23 or 24 and he is putting up 4th liner points. Thats like 4 or 5 years from now. Kid clearly needs some development, but lets not write him off please. Look at Baertschi, hes 23 and lots are still willing to give him a mile of rope.
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I just had a look at all the number 6 picks since year 2000. For all the forwards I did a quick calculation of their points per game in the NHL and then i looked up to see what their point total was in their last year of the World Junior championship. pts/g last year of wjc 2013 Sean Monahan C .61 2012 Hampus Lindholm D 2011 Mika Zibanejad C .5 6gp 5pts 2010 Brett Connolly RW .244 6gp 6pts 2009 Oliver Ekman-Larsson D 2008 Nikita Filatov LW .266 6gp 6pts 2007 Sam Gagner RW .59 6gp 0pts 2006 Derick Brassard C .59 6gp 4pts 2005 Gilbert Brule C .31 2004 Al Montoya G 2003 Milan Michalek RW .61 2002 Scott Upshall RW .42 6gp 5pts 2001 Mikko Koivu C .73 7gp 6pts 2000 Scott Hartnell C .58 A few things to note: 1. Sean Monahan did not qualify for the Canadian National Junior team one year, the next year the Flames opted not to send him. To me this indicates how hard it is to make the team. The guys who make the roster beat out hundreds of their peers. 2. How many busts do you see in that list during the past 15 years? Id count Connolly, Brule, Filatov, and perhaps Montoya. 3. The bulk of the successful forwards are .6 pts per game players. I think if Jake falls in line we should expect him to be around a 50 point player at best(does this lower your expectation?) 4. For the players that I did find their WJC stats, most seem to hover around a point per game or less. Sam Gagner was the exception with 0 points in 6 games.
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If the Canucks were a good team this year and the sedins were a few years younger I wonder if we would be obsessing over the prospects like this. I think the fan base is a little scared that there is nobody to take over once our first line guys go...
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I know this is off topic a bit... Looking at Hodgson's performance in the world juniors and his relative draft position im left wondering how much responsibility does the organization have to bear for his "bust" status. If you look at the top 11 scorers in the junior championship that year i think 7 of them are pretty solid players. He was right up there with guys like Eberle, Tavares, and Tatar... Why did the Canucks get two guys in Hodgson and Schroeder who were stars in the tournament, first round picks, and ended up failing? Coincidence, or is there some kind of weakness in the organization? I think people get too worked up over these tournaments. The fact that these kids beat out thousands of their peers to make their junior team rosters indicates that they are stars, most of the time its how their pro organizations develop them that determines their long term success. Just my opinion!
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Top 5 scorers 2009 WJC 1. Cody Hodgson 16pts 2. John Tavares 15pts 3. Jordan Eberle 13pts 4. NIkita Filitov 11 pts 5. Thomas Tatar 11pts In 2008 Jordan Schroeder was tied for 4th in tournament points. How did those two guys work out? Conversely way back in 1988 Trevor Linden racked up ONE point in 7 games. ONE point. If these boards existed back then I suspect people would be shredding him too. Its all about player development and circumstances. Trev, with his one point, turned out just fine. Cody, with his 16 points is qualified to carry Shae Weber's luggage during road trips.
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Alright, Ill admit im old enough to have seen enough of these tournaments not to get too worked up about how a player performs (EITHER WAY) The biggest stand outs in my head are 1. Trevor LINDEN who in 1988 got ONE MEASLY point at the WJHC. Imagine if they had forums like this back then - some of you guys (or your equivalents back then) would be chewing him out day and night. 2. Jim SANDLAK who in the 1986 WJC finished with more points than guys like Gary Roberts and Luc Robataille. He was ranked right up there with Joe Nieuwendyk. Canucks drafted him 4th overall, and after his junior performance I thought he was going to dominate and I thought I was going to burn my paper bag of shame (a required accessory in the mid 80s if you were a fan of this team). How did he turn out despite this dominance at the WJC? 2. Cody HODGSON. 16 points in 6 games in 2009. How did he turn out? Yeah, hes carrying Shae Weber's luggage on road trips now. To me it is important to see how Jake performs in the knock out games. These candy ar$se games in the preliminary stage dont indicate much - these guys probably face stiffer competition playing against rival teams in their junior leagues. Look at how many points Mathews racked up today playing against a team that basically gave up after 5 minutes. Calm down and enjoy. Its all about player development. If Sandlak was drafted by a different team perhaps he would have been developed better and would have turned out better.
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Im a big fan of the kid, but to be honest I feel a little disappointed with his showing today. Over a dozen guys got points for Canada, and I dont think (havent studied the score sheet) he even got an assist. Not sure how effective he is in close proximity to the net. It seems like he is more effective scoring off of the rush or when he is charging at the net, which is hard to do when most of the game was a puck possession game in the O zone. He seems to be about 1 second behind with his thinking of the play. Hopefully he can pick it up.
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Yeah, he hasnt been playing well. He doesnt deserve to be there, and afte 2 EXHiBITION games we can call it a wash. Its good to know though, after 2 exhibition games, if a guy doesnt look good thats because hes no good. And what do those dummies that run team canada know. They just put him on the team because he doesnt deserve to be there, probably because his dad is from Finland and they wanted to fly him out there to see some relatives. Even McKenzie is a dummy, he was saying having him on the team would be a big boost to team canada, but hes probably in on it too. Maybe Jake's dad bought him off...with pizza...and stuff...that McKenzie, should have waited 2 exhibition games before he made any assessments. Bunch of turnip truck drivers.....those team canada manager guys....and McKenzie...they all need to consult with Guntrix next time. He can spot talent and can tell us who deserves what - he is not ignorant. Thanks Guntrix.
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only one guy scored today, i guess we can write off everyone else on that WJC team too...lol...
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How many here were hitting the panic button when Bo didnt do much in the wj championship? Lets wait for the tournament to unfold before we start writing the guy off.
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The guy is not ready. As much as I want him to succeed the last few games have shown us he is in over his head. As Canuck fans we havent had the chance to put many teenagers under the microscope. You can really see it in his game, he needs to be played lots at a lower level and he needs to have a coaching staff work with him. Unfortunately hes too young for the AHL. It kinda reminds me of Draisaitl in Edmonton. The guy really looked out of place last year. 9 points in 37 games and was -17. He gets sent back to Kelowna, did some time in the AHL, looks like a completely different player this year.