Baggins

Ehrhoff with a little cap dump for peanuts was a mighty good trade.

Um, you seem to be forgetting the 20 pts in 33 games forward that also came in that trade... ....

What are the odds Arizona isn't on his 10 team no trade list? His cap hit, and only being one year left, would be attractive to several rebuilding teams.Offer Myers and Rathbone for a 3rd. They'd likely that or more back at the deadline moving Myers as a rental to a playoff team. Basically they get a bubble prospect for free to carry Myers until the deadline.

Even more unbelieveable is Bieksa was the last top 4 RHD we drafted. That was over 20 years ago.

I agree. I suspect even some contenders would agree. Gudbranson got $4M as a ufa last summer. Not with a very good team, but still it's an indicator of how valuable RHD are these days to teams lacking them. Edit: I'll add this as well. Whether kept or moved Myers will have real value at the next trade deadline. With 50% retained he'd only carry about a 750k cap hit to the playoff team trading for him. Retained cap always adds to the return. He has to submit his 10 team list July 1st so there will be plenty of trade options at the deadline. We could trade him after his bonus is paid for a 4th round pick and the team taking his 1m salary knowing they can get far more than that at the trade deadline re-selling him. Or if cap space is created eslewhere keep him to move at the deadline ourselves.

It wasn't an awful deal at all until hindsight kicked in. Like I said, Ballard was never the same after his hip surgery. No amount of pro scouting could tell you that as the surgery had just happened. Many players come back from hip surgery and continue to play well, Ballard just wasn't one them.

The same would likely to be true with that pick. He's only cheap until he becomes what you need. By the time he's what he needs to be Petey is 30 and that player isn't on his ELC. It's a rare d-man indeed that makes a team out of the draft and becomes what he needs to be within a year or two of NHL play. Those guys are very rare even with a top 3 pick. Over the 20+ years I've been on this board I've found fans only really truly love players while paid less than what they're worth. Here's a reality check: 4 seasons have gone by since Podkolzin and Hoglander were selected. Both still appear to be viewed as future core players by many Van fans and yet going into their fifth season neither has even secured a roster spot, never mind be what they need to be for a competitive team. I do believe both will have, at very least, decent NHL careers and be valuable to their team in time. But more often than not, as seen with these two, it takes time to get to that point.

Some, not all, likely would at 3-3.5m. It's not that Myers is that bad, it's more that he's overpaid for what he provides.

Will the 1st and 2nd traded for Hronek be ready to be truly competitive in a couple of years? The first is more likely to step on the ice in a couple of years and take another 2 or 3 to get where he needs to be for a competitive team. The second is in the same boat and likely longer. That's assuming they aren't busts, which is also possible. In 5 years when *crosses fingers* they are where they need to be Petey will be 30. Petey took five years to get to this past seasons level of play. This is why every method to improve is needed now. The faster you build around your stars the bigger the window they'll have to compete. Sitting back playing a waiting game, hoping entirely on draft picks, is just wasting several of their prime years. Weird that people who actually pay to go to games want to see the team improve and win games. Would you buy tickets if the team was set up to lose games from the start of the season? Or even better, would you even pay to go to individual games knowing the coach is limiting ice time for Petey, Kuz, Miller, Hughes, and Demko, the guys you're paying to see, to ensure losses? You know, that thing the tank squad wanted. Of course season ticket holders want to see the team improve sooner rather than later. And even when the team isn't that good fans are paying to, at very least, see the star players play.

Mine? I've said repeatedly "use all options available to improve". You're the one that seems to be stuck on one option - draft picks. So take your own advice - there are more viable options than just yours. There's actually more than two viable paths to improvement. Every option is risk/reward. The cap will work itself out through other moves. The chicken little routine around here is wearing mighty thin.

In hindsight terrible Ballard not working out here. But moving Grabner I fully expected. He ran out of chances and was waiver elligible. Better to move him than lose him for nothing. Rathbone and Hoglander are in that position this year. Too good to clear waivers, but are they good enough to make the team? Depending on offseason moves Hogs might have a chance at making the opening roster. Rathbone I believe will be moved. The way I looked at the Grabner trade is it was basically a 1st for Ballard and waiver elligible Grabner for taking a cap dump (Bernier). The first was the main part of the trade because if Grabner didn't show he could be lost to waivers. I didn't mind that trade at all. I really liked Ballard when with the Coyotes but didn't see much of him after going east. But as I said, Ballard just didn't seem the same after his offseason hip surgery. I didn't care at all what Grabner became after, and still don't, because it wasn't going to happen here. He would have been lost to waivers here just as he was in Florida. Because he showed up to camp in poor shape (yet again) and was outplayed by others (yet again) in preseason. In 10/11 Grabner had 52 pts in 76 games while Raymond had 53 pts in 82 games. He was really just another Mason Raymond. Who fans here included in every trade proposal. NHL career Raymond had 251 pts in 546 games (.46 ppg), Grabner 276 pts in 640 games (.43 ppg). Yet so many still moan about moving him like we lost some superstar. He spent his career playing for bad to mediocre teams for a reason.

Nope. But he's legit top 4 NHL RHD. Can you guarantee that a draft pick will be? In three years that 18th overall can be well on his way to being a bust like Juolevi. Life doesn't come with guarantees.

Cap space is pretty meaningless if you have a crap team. Cap can always be moved and will be.

Can you read? I never mentioned trading the 11th. I said use all avenues to improve. Draft, trade, and UFA. I even said you always need to have draft hits. All avenues. We had an extra 1st and an opportunity to acquire a 25 yr old top 4 RHD. That's a great add to Petey, Hughes, Miller, Kuz, and Demko and the right age. When opportunity knocks you answer. Nobody is holding the team hostage. But players have asked to be traded because they get tired of missing the playoffs or other for reasons. Petey said two years ago he was tired of missing the playoffs. How long do you think he is willing to wait before getting fed up?

Who said it's useless? Nobody. Can you guarantee it will turn out? No you can't. How say how quickly will he actually be effective if he turns out? No you can't. Picks are simply assets. You can use them, cross your fingers and wait. Or you can trade them for what you need now. Just as prospects are assets. You can cross your fingers and wait, or trade them for what you need now. Every team needs prospects and picks whether rebuilding, building, or contending. That doesn't mean you never ever trade them.

When you have high end talent you use all avenues to improve the team around. Drafting, trades, and UFA. The faster you build around rare talent the bigger window you will have. That doesn't mean trade away ALL your picks. You always need to score hits in the draft. Always. But you can't sit back and depend entirely on the draft. Petey will be 25 this fall. If we drafted a RHD with that 17th overall next month how old will Petey be when he makes the NHL and actually becomes effective? Say two years to make the team and 3 playing before becoming what he needs to be and Petey is 30. Bourque played 180 playoff games with the Bruins. Including the eastern finals losses and a pair of cup losses. He asked for a trade when his career was coming to an end and Bruins had decided to rebuild. The Bruins missed the playoffs twice during his time in Boston. He didn't sit there his career waiting and hoping to just make the playoffs.

Ballard had Hamhuis and Edler ahead of him. You can't ignore that Edler was better offensively and Hamhuis was better defensively when looking at Ballards ice time. But Ballard also wasn't the same after his hip surgery. He looked absolutely awful to start the season here. Even prospects were blowing past him in preseason. Were you coach V would you have given Ballard more ice time than either Hamhuis or Edler? I wouldn't. As to being a "one sided" trade, Florida lost Grabner to waivers without playing a game for them. The 1st was Howden who was a bust that played 94 games (17 pts) for them over three seasons and wasn't qualified leaving as a UFA. Plus Bernier who was a cap dump in the deal that played 68 games for them and walked as a UFA. Florida really got nothing for Ballard. The only winner in the deal was the Isles who picked up Grabner off waivers. Which would have happened had we kept him. Grabner was forgetable. But who blundered more us or Florida? Florida wasn't that good and Grabner was cut to be sent to the AHL but was claimed off waivers. We were a cup contender with our entire top 6 coming of career years. Grabner repeatedly failed fitness tests every camp here. Because of that, and being waiver elligible, he was trade bait. No contender is going to move a top 6 forward coming off a career year to roll the dice on an unkown that can't show up to camp in shape and ready to compete year after year. Even when you look at McCann did we truly blunder? How long are you supposed to wait before it's not a blunder? We traded McCann to Florida. They traded him to Pittsburgh. They traded him to Toronto. Toronto didn't protect him and he was claimed by the Kracken in the expansion draft. That's a whole lot of blunders before he finally established himself as a top line player. The simple truth is you have to trade something to get something. We traded a potential top 6 forward for a potential top 4 d-man. Both were young, and neither came with guarantees. Lacking a crystal ball you make trades based on what you know in the here and now.

2022: Nemec, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintukov, Mateychuk have a combined total of 4 NHL games. So, panned out where? 2021: Power was the first overall pick. Hughes, Edvinsson, Clarke, Cuelemens have a combined combined 20 NHL games. Again, panned out where? 2020: Sanderson, Drysdale, Guhle, Schneider, Mukhamidullin. This is better but there a 5th and 6th overall in this group. The 16th, 19th, and 25th are looking ok, but not exactly established top 4 quality d-men just yet. Talking drafting d-men with a 17th pick, using top 5, 10,and 15 picks as examples seems rather pointless. Using guys that haven't even established themselves in the NHL seems even more pointless. Foolish imo when talking against trading the 17th overall for a top 4 RHD that has no will he/won't he question mark, or development waiting period involved.

TSN has him 17th, Elite prospects 21, The Hockey Writers 17th, Sportsnet 14th, The Win Column 22nd, Bob Mackenzie 12th. Who has him as a sure fire top 10? I take it by "forums" you mean "fans". Personally I don't put much faith in that. Fans wanted Glass or Vilardi when we took Pettersson. Truthfully I don't really care who they pick. I'm not a scout, and as seen above, even those who create draft rankings don't exactly agree. But if given the choice with a high pick, I'd take a good skater that needs to fill out his frame over a mediocre skater with good size. My guess is they'll either pick a d-man or a good skating forward with solid two way play.

That's all well and good but those video highlights, pointing out his skating, are from this season. If that's his 'vastly improved' skating just how slow was he two - three years ago? The knock on Boeser was his skating. It has improved but nobody is calling Boeser fast. If you turn the draft rankings in that video into 'consensus' he ranks 19th. Trade down?

Risk/reward. Always try to improve your team by any method.

Well you do seem to be on a nonsensical never ending rant. I have my furry spots.

Well, he is what you want - big and physical. So you probably would Karen.

We still have an 11th overall next month.