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Everything posted by baumerman77
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Let's face it the Canucks got Brandon McMillan as a stopgap until Bonino and Richardson are healthy. After that he is off to Utica. He's a left winger. Gaunce, Shinkaruk, and Archibald are left wingers. Does anyone think this could possibly be a set-up move to trade either Gaunce or Shinkaruk. I know that Gaunce has also played center in Utica but it seems like they like him on the left wing more. He's been getting better playing time with better line mates lately as well. Not to mention his name was rumoured to be in the Evander Kane offer.
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I don't think you read and/or comprehended what I wrote.
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Yup. And I think it has went up lately because he seems more confident and doesn't rush off the ice right away like he did at the start of the year. It is one of those stats that needs a nice (preferably over 60 game) sample size.
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I know it's nice that Horvat's faceoff % is high but the importance of faceoffs is often over exaggerated; there are other components of the game that matter much more than faceoffs. His offensive zone starts are at 52.3% and his offensive finished are at 43.9%. His relCorsi is the worst on the canucks at -16.8 The quality of competition he faces has gone up which is good, whereas his quality of teams mates has stayed very low. He has performed better the last 10 or so games, probably because he has finally started to feel comfortable and thus has created some offense which was non-existent at the start of the season. So far he has played as expected - a fourth liner. However in context of him being a 19 year old that is very good. Just to be a 19 year old playing in the NHL is good.
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That's a tough call. I would have preferred for him to go to junior the entire year. Or at minimum I would have sent him to the WJC. If he would have went to the WJC we would have another 10 plus games to decided whether or not to send him back to junior. That would be very helpful because another 10 games could bring a lot of clarity to our playoff outlook. At this point I think the Canucks will keep him up for the rest of the season. I guess when he turns into a UFA we can comeback to this discussion.
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I hope he comes over next year. The AHL will be an easier league for him to play in and develop for the next couple of years.
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The fact that he is in the league as a 19 year old is a good sign even if he ends up being one of our worst forwards this season. Personally, I would like to see him go to the WJC. But that won't happen unless we are health at center and even then the Canucks may keep him. I do think that the Canucks are leaning towards sending him (if the team is healthy). Benning made some comments about it a few days ago (sorry I couldn't find them) that alluded to the WJC being a very important learning experience, especially this year in Canada and to a junior "veteran" player. That kind of language coupled with Desjardins comments at the beginning of the season about the importance of confidence in young players leads me to believe they are leaning towards sending him. But perhaps I am reading too much into that. Nevertheless we can still cheer for Virtanen at the WJC (hopefully...)
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I should have mentioned that it is early in the season (especially since Horvat has only played 16 games) and much can change. Because of the limited sample size (games played) Horvat is clumped around his linemates - Dorsett and Hansen. Vey is at the bottom with Horvat (Vey hasn't been given as easy zone starts, but he has face the easiest competition). I found a graphical display of that data for our forwards. It should make it easier to understand. Ideally a great player like Bergeron would be in the top left corner with a blue bubble, conversely a very bad (sheltered) player would be in the bottom right with a red bubble: http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f3=&f5=VAN&f4=C%2BLW%2BRW&f7=10-&bubbleType=corsiRel&yAxis=qoc&update-filters=Update+Results
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Unfortunately most advanced stats only go back to the 2007-2008 seasons so it would be difficult to compare his numbers to Bergeron or Richards. However comparing him to Toews (19) and O'Reilly (18) we can see that Horvat is being used in a much more sheltered (being given favourable zone starts and matched up against easier competition) way by the coach. Despite being used in more favourable match-ups and zone deployment Horvat has not been as successful as Toews or O'Reilly in possession numbers. In summation Horvat is one of the worst forwards on our team when looking at advanced stats so far. However that is likely to be expected by a 19 year old and he could easily improve.
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With one game in the next 7 days it seems as if both Kassian and Matthais will be healthy. If our forwards are healthy we should most definitely send Horvat to WJC. He hasn't been playing particularly well the last 5 games (not that it's a big deal he is only 19). But it is not likely the Canucks will be hurt by losing him for 6 or 7 games. It could boost his confidence and give him some big important minutes.
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I too am concerned Virtanen might not turn out that the way we hope. Full disclosure, I was a big fan of Virtanen going into the draft and wanted the Canucks to draft him. The one concern I had last year was his assist totals. He played with good linemates last year, mostly Brassart and Chase. The fact that he had relatively low assist totals led me to believe perhaps his linemates were driving his production not the other way around. I know it is early and he is recovering from surgery but it is relatively easy to be over a PPG player in the CHL, especially if you are a first round draft pick. His relatively poor start isn't the reason for my concern, it's more that his numbers last year may have been inflated by his linemates.
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So with Virtanen coming back on the 24th that means he will have missed the first 11 games of the season. Add in another 6 games missed for the world juniors (hopefully). That means he should play roughly 55 regular season WHL games. How does everyone think he will do this year? I am thinking/hoping: 55 Games, 40 Goals, 30 Assists, 70 Points
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Jensen sent down. Looks like Horvat will get at least a 9 games.
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Exactly. Just skip one year or rather held back one year. Have a regular draft lottery but just combine the previous 2 years standings to rank teams. There are so few 18 year olds that make the league it shouldn't justify drafting that them. The prospects would have another year to develop scouts would be more accurately able to project their potential.
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I can't be the only one here who doesn't want Horvat on the team this year? Are there any others that think he would develop best with another year of junior?
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I hope he stays in the KHL for the full two years. It is better for his development. Positioning and skating speed are his two biggest obstacles in developing into an NHL player. The KHL is a better and faster league than the AHL and it's played on big ice. If he can be a 20 minute D-man on big ice, he will be forced to learn excellent positioning. In turn, this will greatly help him transition to the north american game. That being said, I doubt we will every see him in the NHL. He will make more money in the KHL than he will in the NHL. Especially if he becomes a superstar in the KHL (they will overpay to keep a Russian in their league).
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Good article. I don't even think we should be drafting 18 year olds. I would rather if they pushed it back to 19. I know everyone is excited about our prospects but they are still a year away from being anything more than fringe players. The last thing we want to do is destroy their confidence. Send Horvat to junior and work on his offensive game. Send Shinkaruk to the AHL let him adjust to the pro game. Next year Horvat and Shinkaruk (maybe even Virtanen but I doubt it) will really push for significant roster spots. We need to be patient with these prospects.
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Going back to the OHL won't hurt his game. It might not help his defensive game as much as 10 minutes on the 3rd/4th line in the NHL. But it will certainly help out his offense and his confidence. Not too mention that it will save us a year on his entry level deal.
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Horvat is going back to junior and it is for the best.
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No need to put him on the team this year. I'd like to see him play 9 games just for the experience but he should go back to junior. Vey deserves a shot over Horvat at this point. Horvat can captain the WJC team and try for a memorial cup all while working on his offense.
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Even if he was completely healthy at the start of training camp he needs another year in junior. I wish the NHL would just push the draft back a year.
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From what I have seen of Horvat (7 or 8 Knights games, WJC games, Canucks Pre-season/Rookie Camp, highlights) he is not nearly as physical as people (scouts, fans) believe him to be. He is fairly strong for his size but he doesn't seem to use it to the extent one would expect. He needs another year in junior to be more comfortable in physical play. Maybe adding even more muscle will help his confidence who knows. The extra year of junior will also help his offense. I am not saying fighting is a great proxy for physicality but it does offer some insight. Here are some Canucks prospect junior career fight totals (according to hockeyfights.com) Virtanen 6 McCann 2 Cassels 7 Fox 14 Shinkaruk 1 Horvat 1 Gaunce 6 Jensen 1
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Watching Horvat at this summer camp it is evident that he needs another year in junior. Of course it will help develop his offense, but he also needs to learn to use his size and play more physical.
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He is ahead of schedule so there is an off chance he could be back for main camp/pre-season.
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That's a real stretch. We have good depth at forward but we still need to add elite talent. It's possible that one of our last 6 first rounders could become a first line and perhaps another could develop into a second line forward. Cassels and Fox would be considered success if they manage to play 100 games in the NHL each, I have no expectations for those two to make the top 6.