Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Provost

Members
  • Posts

    11,729
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    3

Everything posted by Provost

  1. You can yell, stamp your feet, hold your breath... whatever floats your boat. Still makes you wrong. No matter how many times you show that he was #6 on a list of just North American skaters.... that will never mean that they ranked him to be taken 6th in the draft. That is what you keep conflating and trying to argue. Those aren’t the same thing. Central Scoring also didn’t rank Dubois to be taken 1st in the draft in 2016 over Matthews, Laine, and Puljujarvi like your logic suggests. You are simply lying. The statement that you were, and continue to be trying to argue against (feel free to read the thread) is that none of the lists had Jake being taken as high as we took him. That is still true and you are still wrong. Central Scouting did not have Jake ranked as going 6th overall. 6th out of North American skaters does not equal ranking 6th overall in the draft. Same as 6th on Central Scouting’s European Skaters list does not equal ranking 6th overall in the draft Same as 6th on Central Scouting’s North American Goalie list does not equal ranking 6th overall in the draft. Same as 6th on Central Scouting’s European Goalie list does not equal ranking 6th overall in the draft They have four individual lists... being 6 on any of the four doesn’t mean they rank you as being 6th in the draft. You did miss the one list that can be found if you scour the internet that has Jake at #6 overall. A bunch of Eklund style hockey bloggers from The Hockey Writers had him at #6 overall. They got dropped from the list aggregators for being terrible. We would have Virtanen, Konecny, Tkachuk, Vilardi, Bouchard as our 1st rounders. The only one they got right was the one that all the big lists had as well over Juolevi, and another one Jim got wrong.
  2. Didn’t change a single goalpost. Central Scouting never had him ranked 6th overall pick where we took him. Exactly as I said... Not my fault you don’t understand how their lists work and think that 6th out of just North Americans is the same as 6th overall... or that you finally do understand, but think going into histrionics to hide your mistake is the best path to save face. Hey, let’s check out the 2016 Central Scouting List for North American Skaters! Wow Juolevi jumps to #5... right where we took him! Great job by our scouts! Well, I mean “great” if you ignore the European Skaters Matthews, Laine and Puujujarvi who were all ignored off this draft ranking entirely for some weird reason but picked really high out of the blue. I guess they must be lower down somewhere, or the scouts missed them... odd.
  3. You could read the article you quoted... Makes it super clear he is only ranked that high out of “North American skaters” and not overall says it right there in your own article. Go find a list of how how he is ranked of WHL prospects only... I bet he will be even higher!
  4. Nope... that isn’t a draft list... that is half a draft list... You can yell and pout all you want, but in your zeal to be smarmy, you showed you don’t even know how draft lists work. If you weren’t aware... we do a combined draft nowadays in the NHL where we pick Europeans in a different draft. You are going to feel silly when you get some sleep and realize how this all works.
  5. Ummm... you might want to go back and read what you cut and pasted into your post. None of them had him at #6. Well, one did... but maybe look at that list’s title a little closer. Central Scouting does segregated lists of prospects between North Americans and Europeans (well 4 segregated lists to be exact). Virtanen was #6 for JUST the North American skaters, excluding all the Europeans.... not #6 overall. I guess I could make him #1 on a draft list I made a list with just skaters named Jake...and excluded everyone else. Keep trying... one day you will end up being right.
  6. So... literally none of them had him at 6 where we took him, exactly like I said. None of them.... or a single one. You finally did a little research, but proved my point was 100% correct with what you quoted and listed. Thanks for that. Doesn’t make you look very good to be snarky and lying about me being “full of crap” though.
  7. Do you have some sort of metric for that? We have one forward over 20 minutes a game (Miller at 20:30), and the rest of the top 6 is 17-19 minutes. Those minutes are right in line with most of the other top 6 around the league that I have seen. The top players like Matthews, Marner, McDavid, Draisaitl, etc play a lot more than Miller.
  8. Basically none of the pundit/prospect lists had Virtanen that high. Most had Nylander or Ehlers. I did an in-depth on the various lists in another thread and compared them to Benning. Button and Pronman did better than Benning overall. Most were worse just on the basis of not picking Petterson where he was picked. I remember thinking Virtanen was a stretch and we could have traded down to get him if he is who we wanted. My pick that year wasn’t as good as Nylander/Ehlers... but I had Ritchie as the BPA when we drafted, and I take him over Jake any day now too.
  9. We absolutely want Connolly if it means we can send 3 cap dumps the other way and get a cheap, tough 3rd pairing D coming our way too. That was the trade joke.
  10. Yep... the team has suffered by the death by a thousand cuts disease. Each contracts, decision isn’t record breaking awful... but most of them have been the wrong choice resulting in a large chunk of our rosters being players who wouldn’t be picked up if they were waived.
  11. Ummm... because he was signed to that as part of a bad decision to qualify him by our management? Virtanen being badly overpaid doesn’t have any impact on what a UFAs value will be this summer. Heinen also doesn’t particularly have more potential than Jake either, not sure where you got that part. I said I would only take him if we could dump cap along with him. I also doubt we can really get a 3rd for Jake right now with his contract, at least without taking bad money back in the bargain ... but I remain hopeful.
  12. You are still super sour about losing Grabner still as “one of the worst trades in team history” that you are losing your crap over it more than a decade later. This is very funny to me. Your entire argument supporting how bad a trade it was for us was that the player we sent the other way was immediately waived by the worst team in the league because he couldn’t crack their roster? You actually typed that as your big “gotcha!” ??? hahahahahahahaha... you are going nuts about a 3rd line player who we sent out in a trade we won! We won, Florida lost... by a wide margin. The fact Grabner managed to be a 3rd liner in a later stop has nothing to do with the trade. The two “roster” players we sent to Florida were both WAIVED by them shortly after... the player we got played an important part for us.
  13. Don’t worry... if we trade Jake for a 3rd, we can pick up Heinen in the summer as a UFA when he isn’t qualified by Anaheim (if we want him). His salary is probably going to be $1.25 million then in another tight UFA market. I like the idea of packaging Virtanen plus some cap dumps for Connolly to drop some cap space and upgrade a roster player at the same time.
  14. Cap space. ... and no one suggests moving them bumps us from being mediocre (I guess being a bottom 3 team in the league is mediocre?) to contender, that is just a false premise. There hasn't been a trade in league history that, on its own has taken a team from the bottom of the standings to the top without a bunch of other moves along the way as well. Most of the time it is just a few dozen little incremental improvements that add up over time. That is the reverse of what has been happening with our team lately, which is a series of dozens of "slightly" bad moves that have made us worse over time. Each of those 2nd/3rd round picks we gave away when we weren't in a winning window, each $1 million a year extra we paid a player more than they were worth on the market, each extra year we gave those UFAs that other teams weren't willing to and have come back to bite us on the butt, etc. No GM is perfect, but you can't make a bunch of those mistakes without them adding up badly. In the case of these rentals, the return just has to be better than what you lose to make it an incremental improvement. What we lose by moving on from them... 20-30 meaningless games in a season where we are sitting at a 97.5% chance of missing the playoffs. What we gain: 1. Cap space for the rest of this year. Even if we could waive those rentals and get nothing in return... we win those moves because the cap space makes a huge difference this year. If we shed enough cap, we can pay the $4.7 million in ELC bonuses that are currently going to be pushed into next year. What we can get with an extra $4.7 million next year (or maybe more importantly.. what extra depth we won't have to lose) will be more valuable than having those players for a few more games. 2. Mid round picks. A 3rd round pick has a 25-33% chance of playing 100 games in the NHL. Nothing says they will be a star or a significant contributor... but having that extra ticket increases your chances. 3. The chance to see what some of the younger guys can do. We are already losing 10 of 12 games WITH those guys, how much worse can it get if you put a couple of Hawyrluk, Bailey, and Michaelis in?
  15. That could be construed about not wanting to take back cap as well vs. real money. They get a player for that extra year of salary, we get nothing... or have to pay Heinen a new deal to qualify him. We are paying Heinen about $650k more in real cash pro-rated for the rest of the season than Jake would get. Then Jake is $3.4next season and Heinen's qualifying would be $2.8 million... $600k less than Jake's actual dollar salary. It pretty much exactly evens out in terms of actual dollars... unless the Ducks see both Virtanen AND Heinen as just cap liabilities with no value as players. On our end, it is a pretty good bet that the Ducks won't be qualifying Heinen in the summer at that relatively high price tag if they are ready to move on from him already. He is a BC boy and if we actually liked him as a player we could pick him up for half that salary when he becomes a UFA after not being qualified. If we don't like him as a player, then forget about getting him as a return for just a few meaningless games when we could just waive Virtanen first and see if someone takes a flyer and picks him up and we save all that cap space this year AND next year to use on a player we like more. Something isn't fully explained in this reporting as it doesn't make sense.
  16. That would be better for us.. but I also wanted to make it something Florida would be more likely to consider. If they agreed to your deal, great. .
  17. I think the inference of his post is that Heinen won’t be qualified at the money it would require and Anaheim would be walking away from him like we did Hutton. We could probably get the player at half the cost in the offseason if we really wanted hom.
  18. I don’t think many other GMs think of us as competition right now... certainly not to the point where they would submarine additions to their team to make sure we didn’t benefit. The teams looking to pick up rentals are ones looking for playoff help against other playoff teams... we don’t factor into that equation. Fair value right now is getting rid of their cap hits for mid round picks, not getting equivalent players back.
  19. I don’t know that it would work... but trying anything isn’t a bad idea at all in my opinion. Normally when it works, it is because there is enough talent to spread around... not the case with us
  20. Connelly, Gudas, and a 3rd for Virtanen, Beagle, and Baertschi get it done!
  21. Draft pick ideally. We are currently facing close to $5 million in ELC bonuses that will be pushed into next year when we already have a cap crunch in paying for raises for Petterson, Hughes, and Demko. Moving Jake, Sutter, and Pearson (soon) mean that most of those bonuses could be paid with this year’s cap and not pushed. It is what makes the Heinen a bad idea, especially as it is reported that the Canucks don’t want to accept just a draft pick back. If that is true, it is just being bad at considering cap implications... which is a hallmark of this regime.
  22. It is counterintuitive... but maybe also something to consider if they think last year was really his career year. He has been more along the lines of a Pearson level producer most of his career before last year’s huge spike. Lots of players have a career year in the middle and never reach those heights again... really that is the case more often than a guy hits a new level suddenly well into his career and then sustains it. If there was a huge return for Miller you have to look consider it. He would be a 1st round pick, a blue chip prospect, and a roster player territory in order for that to make sense... or if in the offseason we could get a package that also included a ton of cap relief.
  23. Things aren’t working now, so anything different is worth a try. Rolling 3 lines that could score with relatively even minutes is worth a try...
  24. Is it bad that I wake up relieved that we don't have a game that day?
×
×
  • Create New...