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Everything posted by Junkyard Dog
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If they trade away Getzlaf he wouldn't be a bad choice at all for captain during the rebuild if they plan on re-signing him.
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I know. They will always find a way. Was just curious. Huge black market for guns here and more so in the states. Perhaps NA could shift a focus on targeting illegal goods more than they are? I don't think it will solve it but extensive background checks and successfully suppressing illegal goods from coming in could suppress the number of atrocities in theory. I just want less of this crap from happening.
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I think it does help us long term. Helps the youth become successful. We take any steps back next year and have too many question marks we are in a worse spot. If we get buyouts and/or JB can work the cap and move some guys out it is a guarantee we sign both. Really need both players right now and moving forward.
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Personally I feel Beagle has been a lot better on D and on the PK than Sutter. Offense dies with both players, more so with Beagle, but whoever is playing on the 4th line C is gonna be used 90% of the time defensively and Beagle fits that bill better. Gaudette is gonna have to start being used defensively, Virtanen maybe too, in secondary checking roles. Also Beagle has an immense amount of playoff experience Success/Failures. The perspective he can give when we're down in a series or up if we make it the next few seasons will help out our young team. Also Beagle's signed for another season where we need a solid 4th line C still. They're gonna be a stop gap for Gaudettes defensive development and even after we are gonna need a solid 4th line C.
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Mac could be a Kassian-lite. Less mean. Physical scorer. Motte's everything you want in a 2-way bottom 6 forward physical defender. If he was 6'3 and not 5'10 he'd be an animal. Spark plug player. He's the same age as Horvat too so he'd be good for us long term. Hopefully he gains that scoring touch he had in College but he's perfectly fine the way he is. If Ferland comes back healthy our bottom 6 is gonna be deadly. Mac and Fer policing and throwing the body. Throw in a Tryamkin and maybe Virtanen steps up his physical/agitating game knowing he has pretty good back up. Would give us a physical aspect that this team has missed and would help us a lot in the playoffs.
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Compared to what Motte/Mac have shown capable of at much less cap it is not good enough. A lot has yet to transpire though. I want to wait a bit before engaging into this conversation again so we don't have to argue over what ifs. Need a better environment to grow before anyone can formulate a solid opinion. Need compliance buyouts to be a thing, Toffoli to decide on whether or not to re-sign, etc
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If we trade out contracts and/or get a compliance buyout or two Tanev will be re-signed. You risk putting faith in young players to step up when they haven't proved anything in the NHL. They falter and we traded Boeser we are in a bigger hole than you can dig.
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He has been a shadow of his former self most of the year. On top of that we have guys that push him out of the lineup, especially if Ferland's healthy who's spot would he take? Motte's on the 4th line? He doesn't play any role PK/PP, doesn't score enough or is physical enough to make up for it like Ferland/Mac. I think the 2nd year isn't gonna be as enticing to teams with the cap going down IMO and I feel the bar will be set high with trying to shed cap in a trade. Rebuilding teams are gonna want assets coming back.
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Like I said we differ on him. You think that and I think differently of him this year. And I didn't mean dumping in any sort of demeaning way, it implied shedding cap. I feel a lot of teams are gonna want to if the cap goes down. You've misunderstood that entire post. I even said it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't get what I wanted. There are other concerns that are greater than Roussel vs Baer for a possible 2nd compliance buyout. You also missed my point entirely. If the cap goes down it's gonna cost teams something to shed cap. The bar will be set high and there are limited teams that can take back contracts. It'll be a good time for rebuilding teams. They'd want something back in return, they wouldn't want to trade assets when they need them. I wasn't even trying to relate it to Roussel, I was just saying in general in order to end on something we can agree on when I stated that I hope JB is ahead of the curb when it comes to trading players to shed cap before the high bar is set.
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Maybe, times have changed a bit since then. A lot of things have yet to transpire too. Like I was talking to Theo if the cap went down a lot of teams might be looking to dump someone and it could change the market for cap dumps being more pricey. We both can agree and hope that JB can be ahead of the curb if that goes down so we get a deal done early before a high bar is set on cap dumps, similar to what he did with Toffoli. Either way we are arguing a 1-2M cap difference for a year or two so ultimately I wouldn't flame JB or be salty if I didn't get what I want. There are bigger concerns I have with the team than Roussel, especially with the D-core, Ferland's health and signing Toffoli/top 6 forward. A lot of work JB has to do with the cap/contracts. Hopefully he gets some help with a compliance buyout or two. Makes for an interesting off-season. Team could look more different next year and if JB does well it will be for the better.
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I believe you shouldn't trade Boeser till a young guy(Pod/Hog/Lind) can step up and really prove that they can play enough to suffice a trade. Don't act like you have a good problem till you actually do IMO. Also I would want to wait till after the expansion draft too. Teams might lose a forward and have a higher need for one.
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IDK if Roussel would be more tradeable then Sven. I think both are untradeable. It's kind of up in the air. Cap would be a premium with more cap heavy/playoff teams IMO. I think rebuilding ones would be possible but you'd have to be ahead of the curb because teams are gonna want to cap dump right away and there are only so many teams to do it with. So yeah we probably would have to attach something with whoever we dump but we'd have to do that with everyone we try to dump and all teams are gonna be in that same boat. Rebuilding teams are gonna get a real nice boost from cap dumps if the cap goes down. Everything you said about last season means less than this season, minus the injury. This year he has been played with pretty decent secondary scorers in Gaud/Jake. Hasn't touch a lick of PK time, probably because we have had better options. Hasn't been used in any defensive roles and has been on a sheltered line. He isn't a huge physical presence either. IMO if you want to be a good/successful player in the NHL you have to do a couple/few things well or be really good at one thing. Beagle for example is a great defensive player while Motte can play d and is a physical presence. It's kind of why I am hesitant to bring in more young forwards till Virtanen/Gaud round out their games because they've only really been secondary scorers for us hence why they've been sheltered from defensive responsibilities. What I want is a better player for that line and if Ferland(physical secondary scorer) comes back he is that and Mac has shown he can bring more to the table than Roussel. Kind of went off-course with the 2nd paragraph but it gives you an idea where I am coming from. Kicker for me is the 2nd year with Roussel. It's gonna cost more in a dump to get rid of more term than whether or not one is more useful than the other. Rebuilding teams won't really care unless they really don't have any/enough veterans but that's why they got FA and they can acquire one their that can eat up those tough minutes for their youngsters that would be better a better option than Roussel. They usually do have enough most of the time and are just looking for more assets in a dump. You should usually take it season by season with cap dumps if you're in the amidst of a rebuild because you never know when young guys will break out, example being Petey. Unless you're just starting a rebuild like ANA who've stated they'd take back contracts. That's why I'd be looking at a guy like Sutter to ANA.
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Like I have stated I don't share the same opinion of you of Roussel. Whether you believe I am out to lunch, my point is moot or reality disagrees with me is entirely your opinion. And those sentiments of my opinion I share of yours as well. I don't want to argue with how useful/useless Roussel is because we are just gonna jaw back and forth because, like I have stated we aren't gonna change either of our minds. Also it isn't a huge topic we should debate about that would be worth the time to and I like debating with people here hockey-wise. I remember like 6 years ago before you and I changed our usernames we argued about whether or not we should trade Tanev during the rebuild for like 20+ pages. People were telling us to chill even though we weren't attacking each other personally, we just wouldn't break from our opinions. Equal levels of stubbornness(in a good way) is gonna equate to that. We usually share the same opinion about 90% of things here hockey related and the majority of time we differ it's usually about trivial things like Roussel, what Dmen we should/could target, etc.
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We're at odds on his usefulness. I think he's useless and plays no roles. I don't find that enticing and I don't see why teams would. Doesn't PK, Shouldn't PP, Isn't as offensive or physical enough to make up for the either. Leadership? There's a lot of leaders out there who bring more to the table. Throw the fact he is signed for another year it at 3M it amplifies his lack of enticement. We can't move him he's a 3M extra for us and he'd be around after we sign Petey/Hughes. If Ferland's back or we re-sign Leivo his spot is then guaranteed taken. I'd rather have my hands clean with Both Roussel and Baer without any retention for a following year than what you're suggesting personally. In your scenario we gain the most cap early, if we somehow move Roussel, and have to probably retain lets say a third of Roussel's cap 1ish M for 2 seasons compared to having 2.2(1.2M more cap roughly) for just a single season with the off-chance of being able to trade Baer(with assets). If the difference between the cap retained on Roussel(1M estimate) in your scenario and the 2.2M from Baer staying sent down in my scenario was an actual problem next year(rough estimate 1.2M in cap) then that would be extremely astonishing. Either way we come out with more cap in my scenario 1 year from now and I'd rather have that. If our opinions only differ on Roussel's usefulness then agree to disagree. My mind's not gonna change on him and I am not gonna try to change yours.
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read post above for most of the response regarding Roussel/Baer. Only teams that would take cap dumps are rebuilding ones for assets. I don't think that would change. Deals could still be done to rid us of these expiring expendable players.
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I don't think so personally. I'd rather get rid of the guy with the extra year and get an extra million in cap than the guy who's only costing just over 2M after he is sent down and expires the same time we need to sign Petey/Hughes. I also don't know how tradeable a guy like Roussel is when he plays no roles(PK/PP) effectively and when the cap is probably going down and he's signed for a year longer. He really doesn't seem enticing to any team whatsoever. So it's dead cap for a year vs more cap/more term. I'd pick the more cap more term to get rid of. We can survive a year of Baer at 2.2M if we can't move him.
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Perhaps. It'll have to be a wait and see approach. We could move Benn/Sutter and that's 6.4M right there. My idea was to use the buyouts on Roussel/Eriksson and trade away at least 2 of Baer/Benn/Sutter. We could re-sign Tanev as well as sign a D if that all happened. But yeah it would take more than just a couple buyouts to get Tanev and a top 6 D.
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You missed the Seattle part. We make a deal for them to take Myers/Tanev then that might be the time for a trade for a D. Instead of trading for one now and having to protect in the expansion. We also could have the money 9M in Eriksson/Roussel if we get a couple compliance buyouts and another 6.375M if we shop Sutter/Benn who both have 1 year left. 15-16M is a lot of cap on top of the cap we're getting. Again though it is wait and see. Hopefully Burkie is right and we do get a couple buyouts, it would help us immensely.
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That's a rebuilding D-core not a playoff one. That's too inexperienced and would get taken advantage of like the Gaud/Virtanen line defensively. OJ definitely needs another year Rathbone might also and might not even sign this year. Asking Tryamkin to handle Tanev responsibilities with only a year NHL experience and hasn't played in years is a huge ask. I also only said Virtanen/Boeser go if Pod/Hog/Lind prove that they're expendable if you read that properly. Which is another big ask and a few years away at least. We are trying to be a playoff team so you need good veterans to play with your developing players Not developing players to play with developing players. We are doing that with Gaud/Virtanen and both are needing to be sheltered from any sort of defensive responsibility. All you're gonna end up doing is make Edler-Myers play 25+ minutes a game while the youth play less than 15. Think about it Benn/Stecher/Fanta all played less than 16 minutes, veterans. You honestly think we're are gonna give a bunch of young players/rookie D the time to make mistakes and learn while we're trying to win hockey games and make the playoffs? As I said though. That's a rebuilding D-core and we are no longer rebuilding. We can compete, have a solid D-core and integrate young D gradually giving them the best environment to develop. If you want to succeed and be a good team the next few years and on that's what will need to happen.
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If we got a couple compliance buyouts I wouldn't mind an Edmundson/Dillon in the top 6 with Tryamkin. Would be a killer pairing that could eat up minutes defensively/PK. I trust Edmundson/Dillon to step up into the top 4 if injuries hit. I'd also re-sign Tanev as well and have a strong D-core.
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Yeah forgot about Ferland. If he's back we probably could keep Leivo as an extra if he signs cheap and we have the cap for it. Otherwise he's in for Leivo on the 3rd line. Not too keen on giving up a Boeser till Hog/Pod/Lind prove he's expendable. Until we have a good problem lets not pretend like we do IMO. So that sort of deal is 2-3 years away IMO. Signing Tanev would be a stop gap. Edler won't be around forever. Sign Tanev 4 years his contract will end just as Myers does. He wasn't hurt a lot this year thanks to Myers eating up time. Both guys would become trade assets in 3 years time as our young D prove ready. I could see us getting another defenseman but instead of trading for one now we could sign a good solid top 6 D to help a Tryamkin out. Someone like Edmundson/Dillon who're extremely capable of jumping up into the top 4 if there are any injuries. Injuries would also allow guys like Rafferty/Brisebois to get in and get some experience as they are being groomed. Also Seattle's gonna take someone. If we make a deal with them not to take either goalie they could take Myers/Tanev from us. At that point we could look to trade a Boeser or Virtanen for a defenseman.
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His price tag will probably be for 5-6M but if we are able to get that at 4 years it'd be a win. I'd also like to add Toffoli and a defenseman.