Elite defenceman theory

[mooremooremoore]

In my personal view the main reason we lost the Chicago series is because our defense not stacking up to Chicagos(OBVS, right?). This got me thinking. Have the Canucks ever had a real elite defenseman? The last few years it seemed as though we had a pretty strong defensive core. Especially this year. I really thought we were very strong at D, but after watching the Hawks and the Kings in the playoffs this year its been abundantly clear that we are completely out-classed when it comes to this position. Every one of the teams that are left have at least 1, of what I consider to be, elite defenseman.

Chicago - Keith, Seabrook, Campbell

San Jose - Boyle, Blake

Philly - Pronger, Timonen

Boston - Chara

Montreal - Markov(til he went down), Subban(arguable for sure)

And now the past few cup winners

Pittsburgh - Gonchar

Detroit - Lidstrom, Rafalski

Anaheim - Neidermayer, Pronger

Carolina - (Didn't have one)

Tampa Bay - Boyle

New Jersey - Neidermayer, Stevens

Detroit - Lidstrom, Chelios

Colorado - Bourque, Blake

New Jersey - Niedermayer, Stevens

Dallas - Zubov

The list goes on. Rangers had Leetch and Zubov in 94. Pittsburgh had Coffey. Edmonton Had Coffey. Calgary had Mackinnis. In fact the only team that has won it without one of these "elite" defenseman since Vancouver joined the league was Carolina in 06.

I started wondering. Have we ever had an elite defenseman? Heres our statistical leaders in that position:

Doug Lidster - 86/87, 63 points, -35

Dennis Kearns - 76/77, 60 points, -25

Rick Lanz - 83/84, 57 points, -3

Paul Reinhart - 89/90, 57 points, +2

Paul Reinhart - 88/89, 57 points, -4

Those guys were pretty good. Unfortunately I never got to see them play(born in 86). Out of the 4 of them I only really new of Lidster(who was also on the 94 Rangers BTW). The point I'm trying to make is that Vancouver has never really had one of those "elite" defenseman. One of those guys that puts up the points and still has a good +/-. The last time we had a guy who put up more than 50 points was Lumme in 96. The last guy to get close to 50 was Jovo in 03 with 46. I think it would be in this teams best interest to invest in an elite defenseman this off-season. To me its the last piece of the puzzle. We have elite scoring as well as scoring depth. We have decent goaltending. Our bottom 6 is above average. All we're missing is that one guy to shore up the defense. Whether through trade or FA signing this needs to be Gillis' number 1 priority this off-season. Personally I'd love to have Scott Niedermayer, but it'd be pretty hard to pry him away from Anaheim.

What do you guys think?

[hockeyville88]

+1 (and i never give +1's to new posters )

But yes IMO you are bang on about our D.

We have never had a norris calibre, all star D man. Jovo was for awhile but never Norris worthy and never mentioned in the same breath as the elite.

And as you said, even historically the Canucks' defence is pretty lacklustre in who we've had. i was born in 88 and don't know much about our teams of the 90's but I know that we haven't had decorated D very often. Salo, Mitchell, and Ohlund were/are good but not in a place where I would call them elite. Edler has the makings of a strong D man but has yet to reach his full potential IMO.

Sadly, I think Luc Bourdon was going to be that guy for us. The WJHC gold medalist, top 10 draft pick, the solid 2 way Dman we'd been looking for. Tragically and most unfortunately that didn't work out.

I think one of our MAJOR focuses this summer has to be on D. We have our goalie all set, our top 6 fwds are pretty set. We need D...badly...or else we will continue to lose in the playoffs as soon as we meet an elite team.

Hopefully it's something MG can address and fix this summer! I belive it's the last piece of the puzzle.

[robbylu]

I'd say Carolina had an elite dman, Glen Weasley was the 3rd overall pick in his draft year I believe. Although he wasn't an offensive threat, he was a defensive beast and leader.

[tmoney44]

Big question is how are they going to get an elite D man

[ahf149]

I hope we get Hamhuis hes an elite defensemen. Weber just overshadows him.

[tmoney44]

I hope we get Hamhuis hes an elite defensemen. Weber just overshadows him.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

I hope we get Hamhuis hes an elite defensemen. Weber just overshadows him.

[wallstreetamigo]

I don't see a UFA defenseman that would be classified as elite, other than Neidermeyer. Hamhuis is very good, but not elite, imo. Probably the best of the bunch because of his age. Volchenkov? same thing. Does what he does well but not the guy to carry a team. Would love to see either on our team as they would undoubtedly make us better, but they will command big money and I'm not sure I want to see them here for as much as they will be able to command.

That leaves trading as the only viable option but who is even possible without giving up too much depth to get him?

It would help to have a workhorse type guy that can get in the mid 20's to 30 minutes a game, can quarterback the PP, play the PK, and is solid on both sides of the puck. I also believe this is a HUGE component to a long playoff.

[tmoney44]

I don't see a UFA defenseman that would be classified as elite. Hamhuis is very good, but not elite, imo. Probably the best of the bunch because of his age. Volchenkov? same thing. Does what he does well but not the guy to carry a team. Would love to see either on our team as they would undoubtedly make us better, but they will command big money and I'm not sure I want to see them here for as much as they will be able to command.

That leaves trading as the only viable option but who is even possible without giving up too much depth to get him?

It would help to have a workhorse type guy that can get in the mid 20's to 30 minutes a game, can quarterback the PP, play the PK, and is solid on both sides of the puck. I also believe this is a HUGE component to a long playoff.

[mooremooremoore]

Big question is how are they going to get an elite D man

[wallstreetamigo]

We have at least 3 defencemens better then Hamhius, 4 if you include Mitchell. Hes far from Elite.

My idea is to sign Scott Neidermayer.

[tmoney44]

Through trades or free agency, lol. Honestly though in this day and age of the NHL you have to give up to get. We would have to shed salary in order to sign someone and we'd have to give up a large amount in picks/prospects to get someone. It has to be done, though, in my opinion.

[Cpt_Kesler17]

One of those guys that puts up the points and still has a good +/-.

[BowTie]

If Nashville is having revenue difficulties, wants to revamp the team to have more scoring depth and/or is content with Suter as their #1 dman, we can try to throw a lot of players at them (pick from: Raymond, Bernier (I guess for potential), Shirokov, Hodgson, Bieksa, 1st rounder) to get Weber.

I agree with others however, that Hamhuis is just another good, but not great dman. Not the dominant elite dman we should be looking for. If MG knows Weber is not untouchable in Nashville, I really hope he discusses his options with Poile, and in depth. The only other franchise dman that we can acquire is probably Niedermayer, but that is not a long-term solution, nor is it certain that he won't retire and sign here.

[tmoney44]

If Nashville is having revenue difficulties, wants to revamp the team to have more scoring depth and/or is content with Suter as their #1 dman, we can try to throw a lot of players at them (pick from: Raymond, Bernier (I guess for potential), Shirokov, Hodgson, Bieksa, 1st rounder) to get Weber.

I agree with others however, that Hamhuis is just another good, but not great dman. Not the dominant elite dman we should be looking for. If MG knows Weber is not untouchable in Nashville, I really hope he discusses his options with Poile, and in depth. The only other franchise dman that we can acquire is probably Niedermayer, but that is not a long-term solution, nor is it certain that he won't retire and sign here.

[torrential]

I love the idea of Niedermayer coming here, but I find it quite unlikely. Afterall, the guy's almost 40 right?

[tmoney44]

I love the idea of Niedermayer coming here, but I find it quite unlikely. Afterall, the guy's almost 40 right?

[mooremooremoore]

Arguably Ehrhoff appeared short of Elite to me this year. He did put up some big numbers, and was huge defensively.

(Remember when everyone thought he would be terrible because of his -12 with the sharks the year before)

But getting 44 points (14g, 30a) and a freeking +36 is a pretty good defencemen if you're looking for 'once of those guys that put up the points and has a good +-)

I think Ehrhoff, with Hamphus could be one of the biggest defensive threats in the league, arguably the top 5 defensive pair in the league if we put them together.

But We needed A d-man to step in for Ohlund, and this guy did the job, he could be our go-to guy for the next couple of years. He loves the ice time, take's no crap from other players, is consistent in his play, racks up points, scores the big goals, had 3 GWG, i believe 2 in OT, had 7 points in the playoffs.

He and Edler could be our big point-men on the powerplay, as well as great guys for PK.

We also don't entirely need elite defensemen if we have an elite goalie. I think strong defensemen who play their roll, and don't make stupid mistakes, could lead us far.

[Hero#1]

I think Alex Edler could be that elite defenceman we're looking for. After all he is only 24. Wouldn't be surprised to see him get nominated for the Norris in a couple of years, since he definitely has the potential. At this point, we can only look from within our organization to produce that elite d-man, since a trade for one would cost way too much.

[BowTie]

Weber ain't going anywhere don't get your hopes up. If he ever does get traded 28 teams would be interested and it would take way more than the names you put out there. They wanted Hodgson for Hamhuis at the deadline.