sampy Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 So why do you single him out, Edler probably out mistakes him 2-1, yet I don't see you rippin on him, Darren Exactly and Bieksa is getting better with each game. Canuckelion has a problem with Bieksa because Bieksa used to bully him and now the only think Canuckelion can do is talk useless crap behind his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I think both sides need to temper their optimism/pessimism a little bit. He has had a couple of really poor games and a couple of really good ones. The rest were middle of the road with some good and some bad. This is the typical pattern that Bieksa shows, so it should come as no surprise to anyone. One good game or one bad game should also not be used as an argument that he is the best or that he sucks. His problem is consistency, especially in his defensive game. It always has been and probably always will be (hopefully not though). He has had a couple of games this season where, other than for a couple of bounces, he should have had a point or two but it didnt work out (3rd assist scenarios, missed opportunities by others, etc.). Last night he got 3 assists but only 1 was really the result of him contributing in a big way to the resulting goal (the shot that was tipped in). Even that looked like it was going wide though, but a great tip by Torres. It started with Bieksa getting the puck through to the net. Realistically, the other two were a great desperation move by Torres and a total fluke goal, and had nothing to do with Bieksa. That is the way it goes though. My point? He is not all of a sudden the second coming because he got 3 points. Just like he was not an AHL quality Dman when he got no points previously. If Bieksa is as bad defensively as you suggest, then why does he always seemed to be on the ice against the other teams top players, ie Kovy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Exactly and Bieksa is getting better with each game. Canuckelion has a problem with Bieksa because Bieksa used to bully him and now the only think Canuckelion can do is talk useless crap behind his back. I wouldnt say he is getting better every game. He is a good game then bad game kind of player, and that has not changed at all this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKLELION Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 So why do you single him out, Edler probably out mistakes him 2-1, yet I don't see you rippin on him, Darren I see Edler as a tower of power on the Nuck's back end. That and he actually averages 40 pts a year, the last 2 years and is a career plus 19 vs Bieksa's career minus 20, +/-. Edler, being much bigger and 5 years younger than Bxa has the potential to make less mistakes, he is still on the upward curve of his career, unlike Bxa, who for the exception of last night , his play has been steadily in decline.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 If Bieksa is as bad defensively as you suggest, then why does he always seemed to be on the ice against the other teams top players, ie Kovy. I dont know.......maybe because Hamhuis, Ballard, and Salo have all been injured/recovering from injuries and Ehrhoff/Edler are being used in an offensive role? Throw in a bit of favoritism from the coaching staff, and there is your answer. Who is left right now? Plus, the play of Alberts, Rome, and Parent defensively has been pretty good. That allows a bit more flexibility in allowing Bieksa to play against better competition. They have all covered for Bieksa several times against other teams better players, as have forwards like Malhotra. Bieksa doesnt always play against top players on the other team. Get over your misguided and delusional belief that he is a great defensive dman and shutdown guy. I doubt there are very many people who would agree that Bieksa is a great shutdown defensive player. At least nobody who understands hockey would believe that. EDIT: and keep clinging to the NJ game. Kovy is struggling, as are the Devils in general. He STILL schooled Bieksa a few times one on one, it just didnt end up in the back of our net. Trying to say Bieksa single-handedly shut down Kovy is retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENuck Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Bieksa has one good game and all the kids say "I told you Bieksa was good". Bieksa has been playing consistently well. 11 games: (+/-) +217 shots on goal (number of shots and his accuracy will undoubtedly improve)22 attempted blocked shots16 successful blocked shots18 hits8 take awaysAvg. 22.20 minutes of ice time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone1984 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I think both sides need to temper their optimism/pessimism a little bit. He has had a couple of really poor games and a couple of really good ones. The rest were middle of the road with some good and some bad. This is the typical pattern that Bieksa shows, so it should come as no surprise to anyone. One good game or one bad game should also not be used as an argument that he is the best or that he sucks. His problem is consistency, especially in his defensive game. It always has been and probably always will be (hopefully not though). He has had a couple of games this season where, other than for a couple of bounces, he should have had a point or two but it didnt work out (3rd assist scenarios, missed opportunities by others, etc.). Last night he got 3 assists but only 1 was really the result of him contributing in a big way to the resulting goal (the shot that was tipped in). Even that looked like it was going wide though, but a great tip by Torres. It started with Bieksa getting the puck through to the net. Realistically, the other two were a great desperation move by Torres and a total fluke goal, and had nothing to do with Bieksa. That is the way it goes though. My point? He is not all of a sudden the second coming because he got 3 points. Just like he was not an AHL quality Dman when he got no points previously. I agree with the sentiment of your post. Well spoke. Last night Bieksa had 3 points and played a great game. He's played great other games this year but didn't get the points. I'm sure at some point in the year he'll get a point or two but actually have had an overall poor game. You can't judge his contribution in a short term by the number of points he gets. Here's to hoping he continues playing at his best. He's a 3/4 D man, capable of filling in on either power play or shut down, like he is right now. If he could be more consistent over the year I'm sure he could be a fan favourite. I thought that he made a pretty nifty play/pass to get the puck to Torres on the game winner though, I remember saying "nice play Bieksa," and then being super surprised that it resulted in a lucky goal by Torres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Bieksa has been playing consistently well. 11 games: (+/-) +217 shots on goal (number of shots and his accuracy will undoubtedly improve)22 attempted blocked shots16 successful blocked shots18 hits8 take awaysAvg. 22.20 minutes of ice time That is cherry picking stats a bit, dont you think? He has 4 takeaways, not 8, and has 11 giveaways. He also has 16 hits, not 18. Also, as has been pointed out many times in this thread, stats cannot be used as the sole reasoning behind a statement like yours. Watching him play and seeing things both positive and negative that are not reflected in the stats is the only way to make a determination. He has had a couple of really good games, a couple of really bad games, and the rest have been middle of the road with good and bad. Status quo in most respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I agree with the sentiment of your post. Well spoke. Last night Bieksa had 3 points and played a great game. He's played great other games this year but didn't get the points. I'm sure at some point in the year he'll get a point or two but actually have had an overall poor game. You can't judge his contribution in a short term by the number of points he gets. Here's to hoping he continues playing at his best. He's a 3/4 D man, capable of filling in on either power play or shut down, like he is right now. If he could be more consistent over the year I'm sure he could be a fan favourite. I thought that he made a pretty nifty play/pass to get the puck to Torres on the game winner though, I remember saying "nice play Bieksa," and then being super surprised that it resulted in a lucky goal by Torres. You are correct. I shouldnt have said the other two goals had nothing to do with him. I should have said that they had relatively little to do with him based on how the plays transpired. I did not mean to imply he didnt deserve the assists though. It was more to make the point that relying on stats on their own is not the best way to evaluate a player or how they played. Last night Bieksa played a good game and it was one of those times it got reflected on the scoresheet. There have been other times where he has gotten his points but has played a terrible game overall. Also, there are times he plays well and gets no points (like earlier this season). There are too many variables to rely only on stats. Stats are better used to support arguments when they are fairly represented and combined with both common sense and an eye for the details that do not always show up on the scoresheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0medyClub Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0medyClub Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Don't you guys have school or jobs? I'd love to be able to post at 11:30 am everyday on CDC. ( I had one class today; just finished!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Don't you guys have school or jobs? I'd love to be able to post at 11:30 am everyday on CDC. ( I had one class today; just finished!) Here is a tip for you. Spend 20 years working 18 hours a day to build your own successful business, at which point you can then afford to delegate all the work you hated doing for 20 years to other people and focus on fun things like analyzing the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I see Edler as a tower of power on the Nuck's back end. That and he actually averages 40 pts a year, the last 2 years and is a career plus 19 vs Bieksa's career minus 20, +/-. Edler, being much bigger and 5 years younger than Bxa has the potential to make less mistakes, he is still on the upward curve of his career, unlike Bxa, who for the exception of last night , his play has been steadily in decline.. 1) Tower of power....nah...1 good hit against doughty in the playoffs doesn't win me over 2) Bieksa has averaged 42.5 points in both years where he's played 70 or more games. 3) Bieksa and Edler came into the league at the same time, as Bieksa went to play university before he went to the AHL. 4) How can you call his play on the Decline, when he hasn't played a full year in 3 years...aweful hard to judge that.5) Bieksa plays the more complete north american game, Edler plays perfect KHL hockey. Either way neither one is brutal, but its hard to single out just 1 guy if both are so similair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENuck Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 That is cherry picking stats a bit, dont you think? He has 4 takeaways, not 8, and has 11 giveaways. He also has 16 hits, not 18. Also, as has been pointed out many times in this thread, stats cannot be used as the sole reasoning behind a statement like yours. Watching him play and seeing things both positive and negative that are not reflected in the stats is the only way to make a determination. He has had a couple of really good games, a couple of really bad games, and the rest have been middle of the road with good and bad. Status quo in most respects. The error in stats was when I copied the Kings game I switched Hamhuis stats in error..I'll fix the post when I have time. I did not include give aways b/c the post was intended to hi light the positives.. his give aways at 1st glance look similar to other Canucks defensemen give or take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 1) Tower of power....nah...1 good hit against doughty in the playoffs doesn't win me over 2) Bieksa has averaged 42.5 points in both years where he's played 70 or more games. 3) Bieksa and Edler came into the league at the same time, as Bieksa went to play university before he went to the AHL. 4) How can you call his play on the Decline, when he hasn't played a full year in 3 years...aweful hard to judge that.5) Bieksa plays the more complete north american game, Edler plays perfect KHL hockey. Either way neither one is brutal, but its hard to single out just 1 guy if both are so similair. I think saying Edler plays a KHL style ruins your entire post. It just sounds like you hate Euro players. Injuries are a big factor in development and the fact Bieksa is 5 years older certainly plays into who has more potential going forward. Edler has also improved in each of his years in the league while Bieksa has plateaued since his first full season. Again, injuries certainly play into that a bit, but I dont think it is the only reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I think saying Edler plays a KHL style ruins your entire post. It just sounds like you hate Euro players. Injuries are a big factor in development and the fact Bieksa is 5 years older certainly plays into who has more potential going forward. Edler has also improved in each of his years in the league while Bieksa has plateaued since his first full season. Again, injuries certainly play into that a bit, but I dont think it is the only reason. Disagree there, while his A game now, is a lot better then his A game when he came into the league, he is very inconsistent as compared to his first season. Statistically, maybe not, but his overall game isn't as impressive as when he first started playing. Overall, Edler prior to Ohlund leaving >> Edler after Ohlund leaving. Edit: what I am trying to say is this, I just don't see the translation between the potential he had in his first season, to the skills he uses now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENuck Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Don't you guys have school or jobs? I'd love to be able to post at 11:30 am everyday on CDC. Here is a tip for you. Spend 20 years working 18 hours a day to build your own successful business, at which point you can then afford to delegate all the work you hated doing for 20 years to other people and focus on fun things like analyzing the Canucks. What amigo said In addition, (with the exception of the lunch hour and the dreaded school vacations) the posters are generally more mature during the day. Notice how when wallstreetamigo took my stats to task he refrained from opening his reply by calling me a retard or some other derogatory names. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Don't you guys have school or jobs? I'd love to be able to post at 11:30 am everyday on CDC. ( I had one class today; just finished!) I have my own business, my own office, and a computer...I can afford a few minutes to post. And I'd echo Wallstreet's answer to your question as well. Freaking kids nowadays and their loud music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I dont know.......maybe because Hamhuis, Ballard, and Salo have all been injured/recovering from injuries and Ehrhoff/Edler are being used in an offensive role? Throw in a bit of favoritism from the coaching staff, and there is your answer. Who is left right now? Plus, the play of Alberts, Rome, and Parent defensively has been pretty good. That allows a bit more flexibility in allowing Bieksa to play against better competition. They have all covered for Bieksa several times against other teams better players, as have forwards like Malhotra. Bieksa doesnt always play against top players on the other team. Get over your misguided and delusional belief that he is a great defensive dman and shutdown guy. I doubt there are very many people who would agree that Bieksa is a great shutdown defensive player. At least nobody who understands hockey would believe that. EDIT: and keep clinging to the NJ game. Kovy is struggling, as are the Devils in general. He STILL schooled Bieksa a few times one on one, it just didnt end up in the back of our net. Trying to say Bieksa single-handedly shut down Kovy is retarded. You think the only reason Bieksa has been playing against the other teams top line is because of favortism?? I'm sure Gillis will sit upstair in his box and let AV play favortism at the cost of winning games. This isn't PeeWee, every point is important. Brutal post. No one has ever said he is a great defensive dman, hes just not as bad as the uneducated hockey people like yourself think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesticle Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Some people just can't handle being wrong when it comes to doling out criticism... Bieksa is a decent defender, and may continue to get better while his freak injury improves. There are other things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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