RUPERTKBD Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Unlike yourself, I can't speak for other people, but gee Bieksa against the league doormat, actually contributed to a win in one game this year, wow, he must be Norris material. Nope I stand by my opinion that Bxa is a waste of cap space, his 3.75 mil could be better spent. Ah yes, when trite photos or the hackneyed "career AHLer" lose their luster, switch to hyperbole. Never have I claimed Bieksa to be "Norris material", however, I do know how to count and your claim of contributing to only one win this year is lacking. If you had just stuck to your closing paragraph, we would have no argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Your obvious Don Cherry-ism is ridiculous. 1. Bieksa isnt really a big hitter and he really doesnt hit to hurt. He tries sure and he hits a reasonable amount, but he is NOT what can be seen as a punishing hitter. When was the last time he stapled someone? Edler needs to be more consistent physically as well, but Bieksa isnt exactly consistent there either. 2. This makes me laugh. Bieksa usually screens Luongo more than the other team does or pushes opposing players right on top of Luongo. Crease clearing is not really a strong point for him and he has had a bad habit of doing more harm than good when he tries to clear the crease. 3. Bieksa has rarely even got involved in shoving after the whistle to defend a teammate this year, let alone fighting to stick up for them..... 4. While Edler is not the most emotional, Bieksa is not overly intense either. He looks that way but he doesnt always play that way. One big complaint many have about him is his relaxed play both with the puck and defensively. Namely a lack of intensity. The Canadian comment is just ridiculous. Dont get me wrong. Edler is not perfect either. But your points about Bieksa are so far offside in terms of trying to make him out to be better than he actually is, that I just had to say something. You are relying on his nationality, his previous reputation, and not much of what he has actually done on the ice the last few years. Come on..... Got some stats to back up those claims Wallstreet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. Bieksa isnt really a big hitter and he really doesnt hit to hurt. He tries sure and he hits a reasonable amount, but he is NOT what can be seen as a punishing hitter. When was the last time he stapled someone? Edler needs to be more consistent physically as well, but Bieksa isnt exactly consistent there either. I remember vividly him trying to hit Hemsky, and bouncing right off of him. I mean, it wasn't Penner, McIntyre, Stortini, or Smid...it was Hemsky! Bieksa has nearly 15 pounds on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 You know I would not mind if Bieksa would be bring his offensive game every game and was bad in his own end but 1 out of ten games we see the old Bieksa and the other 9 games we see midget hockey. You're just wrong...and did Bieksa miss a game? How simplitic can a persons knowledge of hockey be when they only think it's a good game for a player because they got points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank&dan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I remember vividly him trying to hit Hemsky, and bouncing right off of him. I mean, it wasn't Penner, McIntyre, Stortini, or Smid...it was Hemsky! Bieksa has nearly 15 pounds on him. haha Bieska came in with a full head of steam and got put right on his a$. I don't have a clue where some of you people get off saying Bieksa throws big hits. Please someone show me one. I'm not kidding. Edit: ANY big hit from his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbllpp Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Finally, someone who wants to improve statistics to get a better guage. In terms of what type of minutes was Bieksa playing, hard or soft mins, that's what QualComp is for. Instead of throwing the baby out w/... blah blah blah, trying to improve the analysis is the way to go. I was looking at the behindthenet website. All it is a fancy way to re-write the +/- stat. One thing I observed was that they like to convert everything in terms of 60 minutes of Ice time. I assume this is to show what the average result would be if that player played all 60 minutes of a game. Obviously if the player is a minus the team losses. In reality there are PPs and PKs over the course of a game and this is different for every team. For example the canucks have averaged 49.03 minutes ES, 5.13 PP, and 5.83 SH TOI ice per 60 minutes played (data obtained from nhl.com TOI stats for canucks D assuming 2 D on the ice at all time thus true numbers may vary due to forwards on the point on the PP and 2 forwards out killing a 5 on 3). Using the TOI and +/- data from nhl.com Game results if Canuck D man played all 60 min (for 2010-2011 and only Dmen who've played all 11 games, I am not going to go to individual score sheets to figure it out for the other guys) Ehrhoff 3.12 GF, 2.34 GA (+.78) Bieksa 3.14 GF, 2.46 GA (+.68) Edler 2.92 GF, 2.84 GA (+.08) Alberts 1.51 GF, 1.43 GA (+.08) Alberts gets hurt in this since he's only played 16 sec on the PP this year. Haters, Lovers and Sane take what you want from this, Sane lets discuss Edit: fixed typo Edler 2.84 GA not 1.84 GA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Your obvious Don Cherry-ism is ridiculous. 1. Bieksa isnt really a big hitter and he really doesnt hit to hurt. He tries sure and he hits a reasonable amount, but he is NOT what can be seen as a punishing hitter. When was the last time he stapled someone? Edler needs to be more consistent physically as well, but Bieksa isnt exactly consistent there either. 2. This makes me laugh. Bieksa usually screens Luongo more than the other team does or pushes opposing players right on top of Luongo. Crease clearing is not really a strong point for him and he has had a bad habit of doing more harm than good when he tries to clear the crease. 3. Bieksa has rarely even got involved in shoving after the whistle to defend a teammate this year, let alone fighting to stick up for them..... 4. While Edler is not the most emotional, Bieksa is not overly intense either. He looks that way but he doesnt always play that way. One big complaint many have about him is his relaxed play both with the puck and defensively. Namely a lack of intensity. The Canadian comment is just ridiculous. Dont get me wrong. Edler is not perfect either. But your points about Bieksa are so far offside in terms of trying to make him out to be better than he actually is, that I just had to say something. You are relying on his nationality, his previous reputation, and not much of what he has actually done on the ice the last few years. Come on..... 1. All your points are lame and I disagree with everyone. 2. The reason Bieksa doesn't fight as much anymore is because he is well known around the league as being a very good pound for pound fighter. Check his fight log winning percentage if you disagree. 3. He is better than any other Canuck at defending his teammates, wether it is through the media or on the ice. Watch the games and listen to the media if you disagree. 4. Bieksa has never let anyone touch Luongo while he was on the ice, your screening point is just stupid. 5. Edler is getting better, but physically he needs to be a lot more consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank&dan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. All your points are lame and I disagree with everyone. 2. The reason Bieksa doesn't fight as much anymore is because he is well known around the league as being a very good pound for pound fighter. Check his fight log winning percentage if you disagree. 3. He is better than any other Canuck at defending his teammates, wether it is through the media or on the ice. Watch the games and listen to the media if you disagree. 4. Bieksa has never let anyone touch Luongo while he was on the ice, your screening point is just stupid. 5. Edler is getting better, but physically he needs to be a lot more consistant. Bieksa hasn't fought in ages. Theres no way it's because of his "pound for pound" reputation either. How the hell does Rypien find people to fight if thats the case? Again, someone show me a physical Bieksa play that isn't an old fight. Although, it might be tough as its extremely rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. All your points are lame and I disagree with everyone. 2. The reason Bieksa doesn't fight as much anymore is because he is well known around the league as being a very good pound for pound fighter. Check his fight log winning percentage if you disagree. 3. He is better than any other Canuck at defending his teammates, wether it is through the media or on the ice. Watch the games and listen to the media if you disagree. 4. Bieksa has never let anyone touch Luongo while he was on the ice, your screening point is just stupid. 5. Edler is getting better, but physically he needs to be a lot more consistant. 1. Let me be the first to say I am absolutely shocked that you disagree with me..... 2. Rypien is also a great pound-for-pound fighter (better than Bieksa) and he still manages to find a regular dance partner. So your theory that everyone else in the league is now too afraid to fight him is garbage. I also never said Bieksa wasnt a good fighter, I said he hasnt been fighting this season to defend his teammates, which even you have to admit is true. 3. Show me one time this season he has defended anybody on the ice in any way. If there is one, I missed it. 4. No one has to touch Luongo themselves because Bieksa will just push them on top of him. 5. Agreed, as I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Bieksa hasn't fought in ages. Theres no way it's because of his "pound for pound" reputation either. How the hell does Rypien find people to fight if thats the case? Again, someone show me a physical Bieksa play that isn't an old fight. Although, it might be tough as its extremely rare. Your judging his fighting record from this year?? All 11 games?? Because despite missing most of last year he still got into 5 fights. When Bieksa fights it is for a purpose, its not like a 4 liner fighting because Bieksa plays around 20mins/game while a 4th liner may get 8mins/game. Rypien had to start fighting guys bigger than him because there is very few in the same weight class that will fight him.And yes, reputations are apart of the NHL. Go to youtube and watch some of Bieksa videos if you want o see him hit. Why did he fights Richards last year? Was it because of his hit on Gagne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Sounds like your married My wife would tear him to shreds if he argued with her........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. Let me be the first to say I am absolutely shocked that you disagree with me..... 2. Rypien is also a great pound-for-pound fighter (better than Bieksa) and he still manages to find a regular dance partner. So your theory that everyone else in the league is now too afraid to fight him is garbage. I also never said Bieksa wasnt a good fighter, I said he hasnt been fighting this season to defend his teammates, which even you have to admit is true. 3. Show me one time this season he has defended anybody on the ice in any way. If there is one, I missed it. 4. No one has to touch Luongo themselves because Bieksa will just push them on top of him. 5. Agreed, as I said. 1. Do you ever come up with decent points? 2. Rypien has to usually take on guys heavier so that he has a dance partner. So yes his reputation does follow him. 3. Watch the Rypien clip when he attacks the fan, you'll notice its Bieksa going down the bench to help and it was Bieksa in the media afterwards protecting him. No player has needed protection while he is on the ice yet. At some point Kesler will do something and Bieksa will come to his rescue (see Crombeen fight 1 from last year) 4. Another stupid and useless point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbllpp Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 <br />Bieksa hasn't fought in ages. Theres no way it's because of his "pound for pound" reputation either. How the hell does Rypien find people to fight if thats the case?<br /><br />Again, someone show me a physical Bieksa play that isn't an old fight. Although, it might be tough as its extremely rare.<br /> I will give that he hasn't fought in a while. Not since Dec 27th of 2009 (the game before his injury last season) so it has been 26 R.Season games since Bieksa has fought so we are about due since he is 1 per 11.68 games on his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Your judging his fighting record from this year?? All 11 games?? Because despite missing most of last year he still got into 5 fights. When Bieksa fights it is for a purpose, its not like a 4 liner fighting because Bieksa plays around 20mins/game while a 4th liner may get 8mins/game. Rypien had to start fighting guys bigger than him because there is very few in the same weight class that will fight him.And yes, reputations are apart of the NHL. Go to youtube and watch some of Bieksa videos if you want o see him hit. Why did he fights Richards last year? Was it because of his hit on Gagne. He played 55 games.....which is 2/3 of the season. Hard to say he missed most of the year, but it displays the same kind of inaccuracy and exaggeration that you seem to use to make your points. His fighting record from this season does matter because it is showing the trend that he is doing it less and less as time goes on. You know that every other guy in Bieksas weight class is afraid to fight him? How can you possibly prove that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank&dan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Your judging his fighting record from this year?? All 11 games?? Because despite missing most of last year he still got into 5 fights. When Bieksa fights it is for a purpose, its not like a 4 liner fighting because Bieksa plays around 20mins/game while a 4th liner may get 8mins/game. Rypien had to start fighting guys bigger than him because there is very few in the same weight class that will fight him.And yes, reputations are apart of the NHL. Go to youtube and watch some of Bieksa videos if you want o see him hit. Why did he fights Richards last year? Was it because of his hit on Gagne. Find a Bieksa hit on youtube lol. You'd think a player as "physical" as Bieksa might have 1, just 1. Bieksa is softer than a pillow stuffed with bunnies. You keep clinging to that Richards fight, 11 months old and counting... This thread is more about "what have you done for me lately". Over and over the answer is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. Do you ever come up with decent points? 2. Rypien has to usually take on guys heavier so that he has a dance partner. So yes his reputation does follow him. 3. Watch the Rypien clip when he attacks the fan, you'll notice its Bieksa going down the bench to help and it was Bieksa in the media afterwards protecting him. No player has needed protection while he is on the ice yet. At some point Kesler will do something and Bieksa will come to his rescue (see Crombeen fight 1 from last year) 4. Another stupid and useless point. 1. Yes I do, and probably a lot more often than you do. 2. Rypien is a much more feared fighter than Bieksa is. 3. Who cares about the Rypien incident? It has nothing to do with what we are discussing. I am sure Lungo could have used protectioni a few times this season when he was run over or jumped on and not one single Canucks did anything but stand around.....Bieksa included. I thought he was the #1 protector on the team? 4. How is discussing his penchant for dropping opposing players on our goalie useless? Because its true and you have no real rebuttal to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 He played 55 games.....which is 2/3 of the season. Hard to say he missed most of the year, but it displays the same kind of inaccuracy and exaggeration that you seem to use to make your points. His fighting record from this season does matter because it is showing the trend that he is doing it less and less as time goes on. You know that every other guy in Bieksas weight class is afraid to fight him? How can you possibly prove that? Before his injury, which is the bulk of his games last year, he had 5 fights. When he came back from his injury he was playing hurt and catchup to get ready for playoffs. A 20 minute dman isn't supposed to fight and when we had all those defense injuries down the stretch last year and were fighting for the division, how is Bieksa sitting in the box for a period helpful. Not everyone but I am sure his reputation has deterred a few possible dance partner. How many 170 ponds guys does Rypien fight? Not many, and why is that? Reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone1984 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I was looking at the behindthenet website. All it is a fancy way to re-write the +/- stat. One thing I observed was that they like to convert everything in terms of 60 minutes of Ice time. I assume this is to show what the average result would be if that player played all 60 minutes of a game. Obviously if the player is a minus the team losses. In reality there are PPs and PKs over the course of a game and this is different for every team. For example the canucks have averaged 49.03 minutes ES, 5.13 PP, and 5.83 SH TOI ice per 60 minutes played (data obtained from nhl.com TOI stats for canucks D assuming 2 D on the ice at all time thus true numbers may vary due to forwards on the point on the PP and 2 forwards out killing a 5 on 3). Using the TOI and +/- data from nhl.com Game results if Canuck D man played all 60 min (for 2010-2011 and only Dmen who've played all 11 games, I am not going to go to individual score sheets to figure it out for the other guys) Ehrhoff 3.12 GF, 2.34 GA (+.78) Bieksa 3.14 GF, 2.46 GA (+.68) Edler 2.92 GF, 2.84 GA (+.08) Alberts 1.51 GF, 1.43 GA (+.08) Alberts gets hurt in this since he's only played 16 sec on the PP this year. Haters, Lovers and Sane take what you want from this, Sane lets discuss Edit: fixed typo Edler 2.84 GA not 1.84 GA Very intereseting statistic. Thanks for posting. I always like to see stat break downs like this that show a different perspective. I'm not surprised that Edler is so low, I don't think he's been playing to his potential this year. Cheers, Ramone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 1. Yes I do, and probably a lot more often than you do. 2. Rypien is a much more feared fighter than Bieksa is. 3. Who cares about the Rypien incident? It has nothing to do with what we are discussing. I am sure Lungo could have used protectioni a few times this season when he was run over or jumped on and not one single Canucks did anything but stand around.....Bieksa included. I thought he was the #1 protector on the team? 4. How is discussing his penchant for dropping opposing players on our goalie useless? Because its true and you have no real rebuttal to it? 1. Most posters on here would disagree. 2. Nobody has ever said Bieksa is tougher than Rypien so stop making stuff up to help your useless posts. 3. I used the Rypien example because you wanted a scenario where he stuck up for his teammate. #1 Protector? Or did I say he sticks up for his teammates on the ice and the in the media. 4. He doesn't drop players on our goalie. And the odd time it does happen, it is no more than any other dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbllpp Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 <br />Your judging his fighting record from this year?? All 11 games?? Because despite missing most of last year he still got into 5 fights. When Bieksa fights it is for a purpose, its not like a 4 liner fighting because Bieksa plays around 20mins/game while a 4th liner may get 8mins/game.<br />Rypien had to start fighting guys bigger than him because there is very few in the same weight class that will fight him.And yes, reputations are apart of the NHL.<br />Go to youtube and watch some of Bieksa videos if you want o see him hit. Why did he fights Richards last year? Was it because of his hit on Gagne.<br /> Actually go to hockeyfights.com. They have video of all of Bieksa's regular season NHL fights plus some preseason and AHL fights as well. Good site if your into that kind of thing. Want to see how much the NHL has changed Wendel Clarks first 2 years in the league regular season 146 GP, 71 goals and 52 fights post season 23 gp, 11 goals and 7 fights People who think players have never fought in the post season are so wrong. Go look at the fight cards of guys like D. Hunter, T. Williams, W. Clark, R. Tocchet. Fighting went out of the post season about the time that Bettman came on board and the large in flux of European players (not bashing Europeon players)in the late 80's early 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.