Kevin Bieksa you are really...

[wallstreetamigo]

I'd rather ship Salo for a pick instead of the following situation occuring;

1. Bieksa gets trade for a couple picks

2. Salo gets injured doing who the frack knows

3. Rome plays in Salo's spot and fracks everything up.

4. Knew this would happen.

Salo has a NTC..........if you were him, would you waive it?

[El_Capitan]

Salo has a NTC..........if you were him, would you waive it?

I've seen stranger things happen in the NHL.

MG's priority should be getting Salo to waive his NTC, not finding possible suitors for Bieksa.

[Aixtek]

I've seen stranger things happen in the NHL.

MG's priority should be getting Salo to waive his NTC, not finding possible suitors for Bieksa.

Hahahahahaha

You really think Sami "made of glass" Salo who is in his last couple years (at best) of playing pro hockey has more trade value then Bieksa? Thank you for making my night.

[wallstreetamigo]

I've seen stranger things happen in the NHL.

MG's priority should be getting Salo to waive his NTC, not finding possible suitors for Bieksa.

MG has already said that he will not ask ANY player to waive their NTC. He can certainly change his mind about honoring the spirit of a NTC, but he will also certainly look like a jackass in doing so and will lose some bargaining effectiveness with future players when the subject of a NTC comes up in negotiations. He was after all the one who came out and vehemently said he will respect NTC as a negotiated benefit to the player.

The best solution is to trade Bieksa while his value is as high as it will get. He is NOT the solution as a shutdown dman come playoff time (have the coaches not learned yet how badly he gets schooled by good players in the postseason????). Salo is a much better option in the shutdown role. Ballard replaces everything else except the fighting and just needs to get the ice time now to play his role.

Bieksa is still expendable and it does not matter much how well or how poorly he plays this season. That should really only affect his trade value. The team needs Ehrhoff beyond this season and that likely means Bieksa and his 3.75 million salary this season and likely that or more for future years just does not fit on the Canucks.

[wallstreetamigo]

Hahahahahaha

You really think Sami "made of glass" Salo who is in his last couple years (at best) of playing pro hockey has more trade value then Bieksa? Thank you for making my night.

Salo is actually in the rather unique position of simultaneously not having more trade value than Bieksa but also being the better player by far. That doesn't happen often, but it holds true right now.

All the more reason to trade Bieksa and keep Salo.

[marinated.pea]

Our entire d corps had a fantastic night in St. Louis. Holding the opposing team to just 15 shots doesn't come easy. Independently, I think Bieksa had a strong game again. A bit of a flub-up there with that last penalty, but the rest of the game he was quick coming back into position (in fact Hamhuis got caught more than Bieksa) and was very strong in flushing out players into the boards which efficiently extinguished plays. The second unit anchored by HamJuice was good again - hopefully that second unit starts to get comfortable because we're gonna need the PP to be good, 1st unit and 2nd, in our upcoming games.

In regards to the "who will be moved" question that seems to be thrown around here recently, personally, I like Bieksa, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that MG and our capologist pull a rabbit out of their hats and actually pull it off somehow. But I won't hold my breath; our cap situation is tight and from now until mid-January, realistically anything can happen. A lot of situations need to be taken into account (via how much Ehrhoff will ask for, how much Bieksa will ask for, condition of Salo coming back) and I hope that whatever happens, MG makes the right move for the team.

[Aixtek]

Salo is actually in the rather unique position of simultaneously not having more trade value than Bieksa but also being the better player by far. That doesn't happen often, but it holds true right now.

All the more reason to trade Bieksa and keep Salo.

So.... Salo is a better player then KB, but we'll get less of a return on him in a trade.... and you think we should trade Salo.... why?

edit: sorry, not you.... El Capitan

[marinated.pea]

So.... Salo is a better player then KB, but we'll get less of a return on him in a trade.... and you think we should trade Salo.... why?

Whoo-wee don't get your posters mixed up, WSA would never say that.

[Aixtek]

Whoo-wee don't get your posters mixed up, WSA would never say that.

All you people on the CDC look alike to me after a few beer

[Aixtek]

The only people on the Nucks sitting at a 2mill + contract (and we need to shed 3.5 mill for Salo) that DONT have NTCs are:

3.75 K.B

3.25 Edler

3.10 Ehrhoff

2.55 Raymond

2.50 Samuelsson

2.00 Burrows

The ONLY person in that group I'd consider trading (as an armchair GM) when taking into account skill level over cap hit is Samuelsson... which brings me back to my earlier posted solution of breaking K.B's knee caps and putting him on LTIR for the rest of the season

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

Salo is actually in the rather unique position of simultaneously not having more trade value than Bieksa but also being the better player by far. That doesn't happen often, but it holds true right now.

All the more reason to trade Bieksa and keep Salo.

You're both wrong as Salo would actually have much more trade value as a short term rental player to any team that needs to shore up its D for a playoff run.

Salo is actually in the very common position of being a great older player who several teams would love to have for a run at the playoffs.

As long as included in the trade is a titanium nut cup.

In any case Sharps scenario is better you just want to see Bieksa gone. Especially if you're of the opinion the opinion that Salo isn't made out of crackers. The only player in that really worth anything is Alberts and in the playoffs he can be a factor again if not picked up. If he does get picked up well I doubt that the others will. SO I guess the real question as opposed to your reactionary "OMG" BS question is would you rather risk losing Alberts to keep Bieksa?

I don't normally do this (Actually I hate it) but anyone who says no is kind of an idiot. Playing favorites aside the goal is winning, or at least it should be.

The thing that makes none of this matter is that in all likelyhood Bieksa will be moved because several teams will want him and the Canucks don't have to risk losing him for nothing.

[Hugemanskost]

I think Sharpy's idea of waiving the 5 players is innovative, but, it certainly would potentially deplete the Canucks depth.

I see all 5 of those players potentally being claimed by either non-playoff teams (for depth / trade assests) or by playoff teams (for depth or for use in games / trade assets to get stronger).

There is, of course, the possibility of none of these players being claimed which would allow us to keep our depth but would hurt the development of the youngsters on the Moose due to a "Lack" (ha ha!) of roster spots for all of the waived players.

All these guys being waived would allow Salo back into the line-up, but, as has been mentioned, we would have to play with a 20 or 21 player roster which is not a good scenario. If someone were injured, we could call up a player to replace him, but, all of the players we sent down are subject to re-entry waivers where a team can claim a player for 1/2 his salary and the Canucks are stuck with the other 1/2.

I see a number of solutions, some of them not popular or sensible:

1. Trade Bieksa - the most sensible and most simple route to go, but, hurts Canucks depth now and in the future. Would get some positive assets in return. Assests gained would have to be picks due to cap issues or a minimal level player based on the cap space we have now plus the difference ($250 000) in salary between KB and Sami.

2. Trade Salo - He would have to waive his NTC. Would get some positive assests in return.

3. Waive Salo - I have been saying this since July, but, it is extremely unpopular and may affect the ability of MG to lure players here in the future. No assets gained, either, except for the cap space.

4. Move a combination of current roster players to clear the cap space - other teams know the Canucks are desperate to get Salo into the line-up, so, the trade assets the Canucks might gain will probably be less than market value. This will also cause the Canucks to play with a smaller than maximum roster unless the combination of salaries moved are greater than Salo's salary. It will also affect the depth and chemistry of an elite NHL team.

5. Combination of all of the above plus releasing players outright - giving away assests for free is never a good idea. Also, buy-outs are not an option right now, either.

Have fun, MG!

[CANUCKLELION]

You're both wrong as Salo would actually have much more trade value as a short term rental player to any team that needs to shore up its D for a playoff run.

Salo is actually in the very common position of being a great older player who several teams would love to have for a run at the playoffs.

As long as included in the trade is a titanium nut cup.

In any case Sharps scenario is better you just want to see Bieksa gone. Especially if you're of the opinion the opinion that Salo isn't made out of crackers. The only player in that really worth anything is Alberts and in the playoffs he can be a factor again if not picked up. If he does get picked up well I doubt that the others will. SO I guess the real question as opposed to your reactionary "OMG" BS question is would you rather risk losing Alberts to keep Bieksa?

I don't normally do this (Actually I hate it) but anyone who says no is kind of an idiot. Playing favorites aside the goal is winning, or at least it should be.

The thing that makes none of this matter is that in all likelyhood Bieksa will be moved because several teams will want him and the Canucks don't have to risk losing him for nothing.

Well there must be a lunar cosmic coincidental event going on or a blue moon or something because I agree with your post. I don't think Salo is going anywhere and I doubt MG would follow Sharpies theory of moving 4 or 5 depth players just to keep Bieksa. Sure he's been playing better, but he's certainly not indispensable nor is it worth wrecking all that depth that will be needed as the season wears on to keep Bieksa once Salo is back.

Here is an interesting observation on how players have developed under AV. Maybe all Bieksa needs is a new coach. lol

Of the core players who've been with the Canucks any length of time, only one hasn't demonstrated steady, even remarkable improvement under Vigneault.That would be Kevin Bieksa, who remains a decent NHL defenceman but hasn't fulfilled the promise he displayed in his first full NHL season.

As for the other core players --and we'll conveniently ignore Roberto Luongo -- the pattern is there and it's impressive. Henrik Sedin morphed into a Hart Trophy winner under Vigneault. Daniel Sedin was tied for fourth in NHL scoring before Sunday night's games. Ryan Kesler has emerged as a franchise player this season. Alex Edler isn't far behind as a defenceman. Alex Burrows you know about.

True, Mason Raymond got off to an uneven start this season but he was still on pace to meet or exceed last season's numbers when he broke his thumb.

Just so you know, every one of those players was drafted and/ or developed by the Canucks.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Pattern+improvement/4002761/story.html

So IMO Bieksa just isn't getting with the program and his 3.75 mil cap hit is a huge problem. He will be the guy to go.

[Sharpshooter]

You think carrying one replacement player on the roster for the regular season is a better solution than simply trading Bieksa to bring Salo back?

Doing this kind of thing has never worked out well for ANY team. Think of all the times already this season that the Canucks have had 2 or 3 guys out with minor injuries at the same time. Under your scenario, the team would have to place guys that become injured on LTIR regardless of how long they will be injured for OR be forced to play with a less than full roster. Inflexibility like that is never a good solution.

This also speaks nothing about what the team would then look like with even one injury on the D. Baumgartner or a not even close to being ready rookie as the #7 dman waiting to step in when an injury happens? Arguing for this as a solution you must also believe that in the event of injury the #6 spot is not too important if you are okay with any of those guys stepping in as our first D replacement in the playoffs. If you are arguing that this would be okay, then why would we need a 3.75 million dman in that spot in the first place? It is obviously not an important spot on the team in your estimation.

I don't care how much of a Bieksa homer you are, he is not better than Alberts, Rome, Parent, Glass, and Rypien combined. I would rather have 3 guys like Alberts, Parent, and Rome than one Bieksa. All 3 are comparable to Bieksa defensively and provide much better depth in the event of injuries.

Decimating the entire depth of the defense just to keep Bieksa is not a good solution.

I think, since you're asking, that carrying one replacement player for a short period of time after the trade deadline is a possible solution in order to keep the best defence group possible, going into the playoffs. Is it the best? Well, possibly. In all honesty, if it worked out, then yeah...if it didn't then it would still be doable but challenging for MG and AV. Sometimes you gotta make bold moves if you want to get ahead. Waiving 5 guys is a bold move.....not a reckless one. We'd still have a full roster compliment as well as the option to bring guys up for 7 games or 20 days, i think it is, if any of our guys get hurt.

If the injury isn't serious then I think we could manage spreading the ice time among our players to fill that absence, if it is a serious injury, well, that's what the LTIR and cap relief are for, Baumer would be the scenario is we had two dmen injured. First of all, Rome Parent and perhaps Alberts aren't all going to get claimed....be realistic for a sec. And Rome is quite capable of filling in for up to 7 games if he's paired with a responsible dman as his partner. Also, Baumer has the maturity and experience of coming up as a call up in order to play pretty sound defensive hockey. He plays a really simple game, and it would work out fine with 3rd pairing minutes. He filled in admirably last season. And again, we're talking about the regular season....not playoffs here. With the team playing good offensive hockey(#1 in the western conference in goal diff) and an experienced goaltender and pairings that would match experienced dmen with the new guys...we could easily ride out a stretch of 7 games till the injured regular or regulars got back. It wouldn't be that big of a deal. Of course i'd rather have our regulars in the lineup....and I wouldn't want any injuries, let alone two. But, we, even after the waiver process would have the personnel and cap relief in my scenario to still be plenty defencively viable.

Come playoffs, we'd have the best 1-3 pairings of any team...even CHI, overall. Just think of the combo possibilities. I don't care how much of a Bieksa hater you are, you would at least have to admit that even Salo - Bieksa as a third pairing come the playoffs is pretty sexy, especially behing Edler - Ehrhoff and Hamhuis - Ballard. You'd be a complete moron to say otherwise, or say Salo and Alberts looks just as good. And to answer your other questions....hell yeah, Bieksa is better than Rome, Alberts and Parent defencively. He's more offensively productive than any of them head to head and he's as offensively productive versus them combined! He's also head and shoulders better than them defencively. His +/- rating is far enough ahead of them that it actually means something right now and he's effectively shut down the top lines of most teams very well recently. Something that Alberts and Rome would never be asked to do by te coaching staff.....god forbid, they ever do. Also, he's got as many points as Glass does currently and he's able to stick up for his teammates as well as Rypien....albeit not with the same calibre or size of fighter that Rypien does. But that's what we have Desbien, Volpatti, Glass for. Or just Volpatti and Desbien if we lost Glass....which i doubt would happen, and wouldn't be a huge loss even if it did. So yeah, Bieksa outperforms all these guys statistically, and in leadership areas in the dressing room.

Take off your hater glasses, and try to see the positive of having both Salo and Bieksa in the lineup, and stop worrying about the decimation of the D. I told you before Alberts is the only one in real danger of getting picked up. Rome and Parent would easily make it through, as would Rypien and Glass. Just the benefit and the cementing of our backend is worth it to our team, in the playoffs or the end of the season. If you can't see that, then you're in blind hate mode Wally.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

Well there must be a lunar cosmic coincidental event going on or a blue moon or something because I agree with your post. I don't think Salo is going anywhere and I doubt MG would follow Sharpies theory of moving 4 or 5 depth players just to keep Bieksa. Sure he's been playing better, but he's certainly not indispensable nor is it worth wrecking all that depth that will be needed as the season wears on to keep Bieksa once Salo is back.

Here is an interesting observation on how players have developed under AV. Maybe all Bieksa needs is a new coach. lol

So IMO Bieksa just isn't getting with the program and his 3.75 mil cap hit is a huge problem. He will be the guy to go.

Yeah ALL that depth would be gone eh. All those terrific players are totally not replaceable though are they?

Parent and Rome... Holy christ what would this team do without them.

There's not a single player on this roster that is indespensable save for the Sedins.

[Clark Kent]

Yeah ALL that depth would be gone eh. All those terrific players are totally not replaceable though are they?

Parent and Rome... Holy christ what would this team do without them.

There's not a single player on this roster that is indespensable save for the Sedins.

I'd argue that Kesler is as well.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

I'd argue that Kesler is as well.

ALthough being a fan favorite and one of my favorites I would disagree.

[Sharpshooter]

Well there must be a lunar cosmic coincidental event going on or a blue moon or something because I agree with your post. I don't think Salo is going anywhere and I doubt MG would follow Sharpies theory of moving 4 or 5 depth players just to keep Bieksa. Sure he's been playing better, but he's certainly not indispensable nor is it worth wrecking all that depth that will be needed as the season wears on to keep Bieksa once Salo is back.

Here is an interesting observation on how players have developed under AV. Maybe all Bieksa needs is a new coach. lol

So IMO Bieksa just isn't getting with the program and his 3.75 mil cap hit is a huge problem. He will be the guy to go.

What depth?? Rome is not on the level of Bieksa. He's a fill in guy, who doesn't make very much and that's why we play him. Parent has seen 4 games! 4 fricken games and is sitting in the pressbox with all his depth. If he was gone tomorrow, you wouldn't even notice. If Rome was yanked for Alberts, you and most others would probably exhale a sigh of relief. And then there's Rypien....big freakin depth that is.....the guy can't shoot, pass or think straight.(I still like him mind you) but he is no real offensive depth at all, in any stretch except for his pugilistic skills, which we could live without in the playoffs. And then there's Glass, who isn't bad, but isn't great. He's a 4th liner and always will be. He's depth because he's cap friendly and that's about it. He's not a scorer, he's not much of a fighter, he's a crash and bang guy....who are a dime a dozen in this league. We could replace him with plenty of energy guys in our system or league minimum signings and still get what he brings to the table. He plays 9-10 minutes a night, and is essentially just out there to rest our other three lines....sorry, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over losing Glass.....and I don't think you would either....though like I said, that most likely wouldn't happen either, as most teams have plenty of Tanner's in their lineups already, and don't need another one.

The only one that would be a shame to lose is Alberts. But then you have to ask yourself, who is the more valuable dman to the team overall....the answer should be Bieksa if you put them head to head and try to fairly for once, compare them statistically and objectively. There's a reason why Bieksa plays against top guys from the opposing team and gets some of the most minutes a night. Even in your daily insanity, you must have a minute or two of lucidity to be a fair assessor of Bieksa to at least acknowledge that he's a better dman tha Alberts, overall, and that he would be a better fit with Salo in the playoffs than Alberts would be, you have to at least see that much, no?

[-Vintage Canuck-]

I miss Mitchell.

Mitchell-Bieksa was a shutdown line. But I'm glad we got Ballard and Hamhuis.

[Sharpshooter]

I miss Mitchell.

Mitchell-Bieksa was a shutdown line. But I'm glad we got Ballard and Hamhuis.

I gotta admit, with Hammer and Ballard playing the way they are....i don't reall miss him all that much. I miss his presence on the squad and his personality and all that, especially how vocal he was...(OUT! KNOCK YOU OUT! NOW!)

But i'm quite happy with the new guys. I think Ballard and Hammer will make us pretty happy for the foreseeable future, with Edler and hopefully Ehrhoff.