CANUCKLELION Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 What depth?? Rome is not on the level of Bieksa. He's a fill in guy, who doesn't make very much and that's why we play him. Parent has seen 4 games! 4 fricken games and is sitting in the pressbox with all his depth. If he was gone tomorrow, you wouldn't even notice. If Rome was yanked for Alberts, you and most others would probably exhale a sigh of relief. And then there's Rypien....big freakin depth that is.....the guy can't shoot, pass or think straight.(I still like him mind you) but he is no real offensive depth at all, in any stretch except for his pugilistic skills, which we could live without in the playoffs. And then there's Glass, who isn't bad, but isn't great. He's a 4th liner and always will be. He's depth because he's cap friendly and that's about it. He's not a scorer, he's not much of a fighter, he's a crash and bang guy....who are a dime a dozen in this league. We could replace him with plenty of energy guys in our system or league minimum signings and still get what he brings to the table. He plays 9-10 minutes a night, and is essentially just out there to rest our other three lines....sorry, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over losing Glass.....and I don't think you would either....though like I said, that most likely wouldn't happen either, as most teams have plenty of Tanner's in their lineups already, and don't need another one. The only one that would be a shame to lose is Alberts. But then you have to ask yourself, who is the more valuable dman to the team overall....the answer should be Bieksa if you put them head to head and try to fairly for once, compare them statistically and objectively. There's a reason why Bieksa plays against top guys from the opposing team and gets some of the most minutes a night. Even in your daily insanity, you must have a minute or two of lucidity to be a fair assessor of Bieksa to at least acknowledge that he's a better dman tha Alberts, overall, and that he would be a better fit with Salo in the playoffs than Alberts would be, you have to at least see that much, no? The reason Bieksa is paired with Hammy is because Salo is injured, period. The collective depth of Alberts, Rome and Glass, (approx. 2.4 of cap) greatly outweighs the benefit of keeping Bieksa (3.75 of cap) once Salo returns. Plus as well as those 3 guys the team would have to lose another million or so to be cap compliant. Last year the team ran out of Dmen, BXa is simply not worth the depth the team would have to give up to keep him, he's not good enough to warrant paring down the depth. I don't expect you to agree, until you take your BXa love goggles off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I miss Mitchell. Mitchell-Bieksa was a shutdown line. But I'm glad we got Ballard and Hamhuis. Guess what...the Kings miss mitchell too!! He's as injury prone as salo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKLELION Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Yeah ALL that depth would be gone eh. All those terrific players are totally not replaceable though are they? Parent and Rome... Holy christ what would this team do without them. There's not a single player on this roster that is indespensable save for the Sedins. Well Parent and Rome would barely free up half the cap space to keep Bxa so keep going, how are they going to replace Glass for 500? My point is that most successful teams will attempt to keep as many minimum wagers that can play as possible vs a small, slow, overpaid Dman who is susceptible to costly giveaways and brainfarts on a consistent game to game basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Well Parent and Rome would barely free up half the cap space to keep Bxa so keep going, how are they going to replace Glass for 500? My point is that most successful teams will attempt to keep as many minimum wagers that can play as possible vs a small, slow, overpaid Dman who is susceptible to costly giveaways and brainfarts on a consistent game to game basis. You're right they would but we're talking about Bieksa so that's not really relevant. As well I never brought up salary just your ridiculous lack of consistency in your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKLELION Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 You're right they would but we're talking about Bieksa so that's not really relevant. As well I never brought up salary just your ridiculous lack of consistency in your argument. Salary or cap hit is a given because the objective of this exercise is to figure out how the Nuck's will manage to be cap compliant once Salo returns. The easy answer is to move BXa. The easy answer is usually the best answer. Why screw up the team to keep a guy, who even though he's playing better, isn't worth 3.75. Salo is a bargain at 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Salary or cap hit is a given because the objective of this exercise is to figure out how the Nuck's will manage to be cap compliant once Salo returns. The easy answer is to move BXa. The easy answer is usually the best answer. Why screw up the team to keep a guy, who even though he's playing better, isn't worth 3.75. Salo is a bargain at 3.5. You've still avoided the argument by making an obvious statement. It's ok we're all pretty used to a lack of intelligent and rational thought from you. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 The reason Bieksa is paired with Hammy is because Salo is injured, period. The collective depth of Alberts, Rome and Glass, (approx. 2.4 of cap) greatly outweighs the benefit of keeping Bieksa (3.75 of cap) once Salo returns. Plus as well as those 3 guys the team would have to lose another million or so to be cap compliant. Last year the team ran out of Dmen, BXa is simply not worth the depth the team would have to give up to keep him, he's not good enough to warrant paring down the depth. I don't expect you to agree, until you take your BXa love goggles off. Oh really? And when did the coaching staff come up to you and tell you the only reason that Bieksa is being paired with Hamhuis is because Salo is injured?? What exactly did AV say to you while he was briefing you, on his roster decisions?? And I didn't say, waiving only Alberts, Rome and Glass....you know very well I also included Parent and Rypien....which gives us plenty of cap room to bring another 4th liner as well as Salo back into the fold. Like your understanding and analysis of Bieksa, you're either not paying attention to what I had written or you're willfully ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Salary or cap hit is a given because the objective of this exercise is to figure out how the Nuck's will manage to be cap compliant once Salo returns. The easy answer is to move BXa. The easy answer is usually the best answer. Why screw up the team to keep a guy, who even though he's playing better, isn't worth 3.75. Salo is a bargain at 3.5. The easy answer is never the best answer. I for one, am hoping MG moves Samuellsson and Alberts instead of Bieksa. Our depth at forward is pretty solid, as it stands right now, we have to move someone down to the farm (or at least keep scratching them) when Raymond comes back. And we all know Salo is going to be a gamble, because A) is he going to be the same player? and How long before he gets injured again? If we move Bieksa, and Salo gets injured in or before the playoffs we would have to dress both Alberts and Rome, which would fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKLELION Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 The easy answer is never the best answer. I for one, am hoping MG moves Samuellsson and Alberts instead of Bieksa. Our depth at forward is pretty solid, as it stands right now, we have to move someone down to the farm (or at least keep scratching them) when Raymond comes back. And we all know Salo is going to be a gamble, because A) is he going to be the same player? and How long before he gets injured again? If we move Bieksa, and Salo gets injured in or before the playoffs we would have to dress both Alberts and Rome, which would fail. I guess you didn't notice Samuelsson has 21 points already or that he is one of the only 'shooters' on the team, that and he is a big guy, plus a solid playoff performer. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for what he brings to the team and you over value Bieksa's mediocre play. There is nothing Bxa brings that the team couldn't do without, except the giveaways and untimely penalties of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I guess you didn't notice Samuelsson has 21 points already or that he is one of the only 'shooters' on the team, that and he is a big guy, plus a solid playoff performer. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for what he brings to the team and you over value Bieksa's mediocre play. There is nothing Bxa brings that the team couldn't do without, except the giveaways and untimely penalties of course. Well, under my scenario, we don't have to get rid of Sammy....problem solved. Bet it must bug you to see a viable route in keeping Bieksa here....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike27 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Well, if we brought Salo off of LTIR and waived, Glass - $625k Alberts - $1.05 mill. Rome - $750k Rypien - $550k Parent - $925k We'd be waiving $3.9 million in cap. That would allow us to bring Salo of LTIR and give us $621k under the cap and allow us to bring up Desbien, Bliznak, Perrault, Oreskovich OR Glass to fill in on the 4th line. We'd have 21 roster players and if any of those got hurt, then we could put them on LTIR as well, if they were out with something serious or if they were a multimillion player, which would then allow us to bring up a range of players, including those that weren't picked up on waivers. I think they only two in any real danger of being picked up is Alberts or Glass, but Glass is not that much of a commodity as he's a 4th liner, which most teams are chock full of anyways. The rest are not going to help any cup contending team in the playoffs, even if they did get picked up. Come playoffs, if they are sent down to Manitoba, we can recall Rome, Alberts, Glass, and anyother number of players we wanted to. I think this scenario could work. Nothing is guaranteed....but it is workable. Rypien is on the books, but if push came to shove and we need the capspace to bring up a guy, MG would have to waive him despite all the touch feely stuff. Losing the rest, besides Alberts is meh. I agree that your plan could theoretically work, but the risks are huge. What if two or three players got hurt? There wouldn't be cap space to bring up any replacements (remember the Flames a couple of years ago) unless they were seriously injured (ie out 10 games or 24 days). Gillis isn't going to want to put a top line player on LTIR unless he has to. If a player is placed on LTIR, he is not available for 10 games or 24 days, minimum. If Daniel or Henrik gets a nick that would keep them out two or three games, no way would it make sense to put them on LTIR. This type of idea may work short term, but we are way too early in the season to be risking this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I guess you didn't notice Samuelsson has 21 points already or that he is one of the only 'shooters' on the team, that and he is a big guy, plus a solid playoff performer. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for what he brings to the team and you over value Bieksa's mediocre play. There is nothing Bxa brings that the team couldn't do without, except the giveaways and untimely penalties of course. How many people are there that are willing to fight if they have to on this team? how many could fight without getting there asses kicked? How many right handed shooters do we have on defense? (for when Salo gets injured again) How many people are there on the team that can play a top four role on the back end? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How many people do we have that can play the second or third line? Torres, Glass, Manny, (3rd liners) Raymond, Kesler, Tamby,(second liners) Hansen (both), Plus kiddies from the minors. As far as playoffs go, yeah he did well, but he also played with the Sedins, who make anyone they play with look better. Not to mention he had more giveaways and less takeaways as Bieksa. What it comes down to is this, what would you rather have in the playoffs, a team without Bieksa and an injured Salo, which looks like this: Sedin Sedin Burr Ray Kes Sammy Tor Manny Hans/Tam fourth line Hammy Ballard Ehrhoff Edler Alberts Rome (make your favorite combinations with that.) or a team without Sammy and an injured Salo Sedin Sedin Burr Ray Kes Tam Tor Manny Hans fourth line Hammy Bieksa Ehrhoff Edler Ballard Rome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I agree that your plan could theoretically work, but the risks are huge. What if two or three players got hurt? There wouldn't be cap space to bring up any replacements (remember the Flames a couple of years ago) unless they were seriously injured (ie out 10 games or 24 days). Gillis isn't going to want to put a top line player on LTIR unless he has to. If a player is placed on LTIR, he is not available for 10 games or 24 days, minimum. If Daniel or Henrik gets a nick that would keep them out two or three games, no way would it make sense to put them on LTIR. This type of idea may work short term, but we are way too early in the season to be risking this. I get what you're saying Mike. what if this, what if that. What if we trade Bieksa and get Salo back and we get three guys injured then? I mean even with Salo back and Bieksa gone, we have around 300k-400k in caproom. That won't let us do anything even if we had 3 guys hurt, without putting someone or a couple of them on LTIR in order to have some cap space to call guys up. I get what you're saying but the pendulm swings both ways in that scenario. Except in my scenario we have both Salo and Bieksa for the playoffs. If we get rid of Bieksa and have Salo with only 400k in cap room, what do you think the plan would be if one of our top guys got hurt as well? It's the same problem, except again, in my version we put them on LTIR and keep both Bieksa and Salo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Capitan Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hahahahahaha You really think Sami "made of glass" Salo who is in his last couple years (at best) of playing pro hockey has more trade value then Bieksa? Thank you for making my night. I don't think you realize what I'm saying. I know that Bieksa has much more trade value than Salo, I'm not an idiot. If you read my posts previous to this instead of skimming my last post and coming up with some half-ass assumption you would realize that I want to keep Bieska over Salo due to the undeniable inevitability of another Salo injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKLELION Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 How many people are there that are willing to fight if they have to on this team? how many could fight without getting there asses kicked? How many right handed shooters do we have on defense? (for when Salo gets injured again) How many people are there on the team that can play a top four role on the back end? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How many people do we have that can play the second or third line? Torres, Glass, Manny, (3rd liners) Raymond, Kesler, Tamby,(second liners) Hansen (both), Plus kiddies from the minors. As far as playoffs go, yeah he did well, but he also played with the Sedins, who make anyone they play with look better. Not to mention he had more giveaways and less takeaways as Bieksa. What it comes down to is this, what would you rather have in the playoffs, a team without Bieksa and an injured Salo, which looks like this: Sedin Sedin Burr Ray Kes Sammy Tor Manny Hans/Tam fourth line Hammy Ballard Ehrhoff Edler Alberts Rome (make your favorite combinations with that.) or a team without Sammy and an injured Salo Sedin Sedin Burr Ray Kes Tam Tor Manny Hans fourth line Hammy Bieksa Ehrhoff Edler Ballard Rome Wow you ask a lot of questions but provide few answers. How many fighters? the entire 4th line plus Alberts, ballard, kes , so 6 or 7 , besides size is a bigger intimater in the playoffs , as fights are rare and your boy doesn't have size. How many right handed shooters do we have on defense? Currently none, when Salo comes back we will have one RHS on D that can actually shoot. How many people are there on the team that can play a top four role on the back end? Without BXa? 6, Edler, Ehrhoff, Salo, Hammy, Ballard + even Alberts in a limited role. How many people do we have that can play right wing on lines one thru 3and have size, play the PP, have a Stanley Cup ring and are proven playoff performers. uh, one eh? And yeah I would much rather have a team without Bxa and his rude 3.75 mil cap hit than a team with him and no depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTzuMe Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I guess you didn't notice Samuelsson has 21 points already or that he is one of the only 'shooters' on the team, that and he is a big guy, plus a solid playoff performer. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for what he brings to the team and you over value Bieksa's mediocre play. There is nothing Bxa brings that the team couldn't do without, except the giveaways and untimely penalties of course. Could you be less objective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Could you be less objective? I doubt if he could shove it farther up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Kent Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Wow you ask a lot of questions but provide few answers. Well it's better to give few answers then crapty ones like you did. How many fighters? the entire 4th line plus Alberts, ballard, kes , so 6 or 7 , besides size is a bigger intimater in the playoffs , as fights are rare and your boy doesn't have size. Alberts can fight. Yeah, your right. Ballard hasn't won a fight since April 05 2009 according to hockeyfights.com (he's fought 9 times since then, going 1-4-5 Kesler isn't a great fighter, although he can hold his own, but if he gets hurt, thats our third best player (in my opinion anyways, I doubt anyone would argue top 5), will be out of the line up. As far as the forth line goes, no one is really a good fighter, in most cases they are pretty close fights. How many right handed shooters do we have on defense? Currently none, when Salo comes back we will have one RHS on D that can actually shoot. Pretty sure Juice is a RHS, so your wrong right now we have one. And the question was regarding if and (in most likelihood) when Salo is injured again, would we have any if we got rid of Bieksa, the answer would be none. How many people are there on the team that can play a top four role on the back end? Without BXa? 6, Edler, Ehrhoff, Salo, Hammy, Ballard + even Alberts in a limited role. Again, assuming Salo gets injured, how many do we have? a limited role doesn't add up to top 4. How many people do we have that can play right wing on lines one thru 3and have size, play the PP, have a Stanley Cup ring and are proven playoff performers. uh, one eh? You keep saying Sammy has size and Bieksa doesn't. You do know they are only an inch different right? We have players that can play either the first line and second line, or the second line and the third line, but Sammy is the only one who can effectively play all three, I'll give you that. And yeah I would much rather have a team without Bxa and his rude 3.75 mil cap hit than a team with him and no depth. We have more depth up front then on the back end, and come playoff time, that rude cap hit doesn't mean crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike27 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I get what you're saying Mike. what if this, what if that. What if we trade Bieksa and get Salo back and we get three guys injured then? I mean even with Salo back and Bieksa gone, we have around 300k-400k in caproom. That won't let us do anything even if we had 3 guys hurt, without putting someone or a couple of them on LTIR in order to have some cap space to call guys up. I get what you're saying but the pendulm swings both ways in that scenario. Except in my scenario we have both Salo and Bieksa for the playoffs. If we get rid of Bieksa and have Salo with only 400k in cap room, what do you think the plan would be if one of our top guys got hurt as well? It's the same problem, except again, in my version we put them on LTIR and keep both Bieksa and Salo. I guess the difference is this........ under your plan, the injuries could leave the team short of bodies to dress for games. If Bieksa was traded for non roster players, Salo would come back and the team would still have a full roster. I agree the cap would be tight in either situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I guess the difference is this........ under your plan, the injuries could leave the team short of bodies to dress for games. If Bieksa was traded for non roster players, Salo would come back and the team would still have a full roster. I agree the cap would be tight in either situation. Under my plan, we would also still have a full roster. Even if Bieksa leaves and Salo comes in, and THEN we get multiple injuries, we'd still have no cap space to bring anyone up. We screwed both ways, my version or your version. You see that right? Non roster players are irrelevant to our capspace or our roster being full or not, so let's leave what we can get for Bieksa aside for the time being....it really has no bearing. We sure as hell couldn't trade him for any roster player at all. It would have to be for picks or prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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