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Kevin Bieksa you are really...


Zigmund.Palffy

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Bxa's propensity for give aways has been discussed in this thread ad nauseum, You are the only poster who has questioned it.

In his defense, he's not as bad as he has been in past years, but still leads the team in giveaways and is 34 th ranked giveaway machine in the league. here is the link to the team stats, Mr. doubting Thomas

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20112VANDADAll&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

as far as +/- goes , it is a limited stat for determining defensive effectiveness, but when the career difference is so great, as between Ehrhoff + Bxa , +67 to +3, it takes on a life of its own. I agree Ehrhoff had a rough game last night, certainly not his typical performance, but Bxa was brutal defensively as usual, even though it may not be reflected in his +/- stats. Bottom line is Ehrhoff >>> Bxa

All that said, with the injuries to Edler, Ballard, Hamhuis, and with Salo not back yet, even I'm starting to come around to liking the fact Bxa is still around.

IMO with a healthy lineup , Bxa is the #5 or 6 Dman on the depth chart, behind Edler, Salo, Hamhuis, Ehrhoff and Ballard fo sure. There is no way MG will re sign him for beyond this season.

Fair enough, you proved me wrong I'll admit. But Ehrhoff is right up there too in second place. Even though he has ten less giveaways than Bieksa, Bieksa has 26 more takeaways, can you at least acknowledge that like I acknowledged I was wrong?

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Fair enough, you proved me wrong I'll admit. But Ehrhoff is right up there too in second place. Even though he has ten less giveaways than Bieksa, Bieksa has 26 more takeaways, can you at least acknowledge that like I acknowledged I was wrong?

Is this the first day you know him? He never admits he is wrong, he won't admit stats that prove him wrong, he will just shift topic and talk about some other cherry picked stat, or his fantasies.

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Do I watch the games? That's a funny question coming from you.

Which one of us in this very thread has stated categorically that Bieksa is "terrible defensively", is a "terrible shot blocker", "doesn't deserve his ice time" and only gets his ice time "because AV plays favorites" completely ignoring, (or more likely not realizing) the fact that Rick Bowness makes those decisions.

I fact, you've been wrong with such frequency that I have to agree with Bedbeats and take insult at hearing "do you watch the games" from someone as consistently erroneous as you.

Moreover, saying that you see the Sedins with Hamhuis and Bieksa "much of the time" is deflecting. I'm sure you're aware that Edler is injured, (I'm pretty sure, anyway) so recent history isn't much of a yardstick in determining who spends the most time with whom.

However, I have Rick Bowness' assertion, coupled with what I have seen all season to help me arrive at the conclusion that the Edler-Ehrhoff tandem are most often on the ice with the Sedins, while the shut-down tandem of Hamhuis and Bieksa most often draw the toughest opposition forwards.

BTW: Please post some proof of your claim that Bieksa's +/- has "spiked" along with that of the twins and Kes. I could be wrong, as I haven't bothered to look, but my feeling is that they have all been fairly consistently climbing all season.

The trouble with you is that in your mind the present equals the past and the future.

I would be very interested to know if over his very inconsistent previous seasons you were spouting the same type of BS that his present play erased his one good season earlier in his career. Somehow I doubt it.

What I have said is that based on his play over his entire career prior to this season, he was terrible defensively, was an ineffective shot blocker, and even early this season he did not do anything to deserve his ice time over others. His play was really not all that special especially coming out of camp. Until he started playing better this season and actually proving that he is not as bad as he previously played, using he is to describe him was more than fair. Describing his play that way right now would not be a fair representation but that does not change his prior play. So, I was actually not wrong at all.

AV and Bowness are joined at the hip. It helps explain why they have to get each other coaching jobs together everywhere they go. They are like Burke and Nonis. The head coach has the final say anyway. Something as significant as defining and promising a role to Bieksa would have had to be at least approved by AV and MG. It is funny how Bowness claimed that Bieksa was promised that role rather than actually having to earn it or his playing time in training camp (which he definitely did not do - he was lackluster at best). Even early in the season he was not overly good. Yet despite not contributing anything on the PP at all (as an example) did he ever actually lose his job on the PP? Nope, not for more than maybe one game. He has been given a tremendous amount of opportunity this season even when he did not necessarily earn it with his play.

I dont know what kind of proof you want. On Dec 11th, Bieksa had a +/- of 0. On the same date, Daniel had a +/- of +5 and Kesler had a +/- of +4. To put that into context a bit as well, at that point Kesler had 12 goals and 20 points after 27 games. Since then, Kesler has 20 goals and 34 points in 28 games.

I can look up the same for Henrik and Daniel if you want me to, but I think my point has more than been proven that the spike in +/- for Bieksa correlates pretty well with the spike for the Sedin and Kesler lines and with their sharp increase in production.

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Another funny thing in this thread, I'm willing to bet most, if not all, of the posters bringing up Ehrhoff's recent bad stats still like having Ehrhoff on their team and support the guy (and why wouldn't we, he gives us lots of reasons to). Whereas the posters bringing up Bieksa's "bad stats"(doesn't really have any THIS season), actually genuinely hate the guy, and don't support him at all, despite the fact he is on their favorite team and is playing great hockey.

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Another funny thing in this thread, I'm willing to bet most, if not all, of the posters bringing up Ehrhoff's recent bad stats still like having Ehrhoff on their team and support the guy (and why wouldn't we, he gives us lots of reasons to). Whereas the posters bringing up Bieksa's "bad stats"(doesn't really have any THIS season), actually genuinely hate the guy, and don't support him at all, despite the fact he is on their favorite team and is playing great hockey.

Actually, there are some Bieksa supporters on here who display an equally large and sometimes irrational hate for Ehrhoff. Like the ones who try to suggest that he is terrible defensively. He really isnt. Some see tearing down Ehrhoff as a way to boost up Bieksa just like others do the opposite. In reality, they are two very different players and are really not directly comparable. I guess the fact that they are both coming up to ufa status makes it somewhat natural to compare which one to keep.

I am widely seen as a huge hater of Bieksa but I dont hate him at all and never have. I have certainly hated things about his play at many times over the years though. Having said that, I am happy he is playing better than he has previously.

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Actually, there are some Bieksa supporters on here who display an equally large and sometimes irrational hate for Ehrhoff. Like the ones who try to suggest that he is terrible defensively. He really isnt. Some see tearing down Ehrhoff as a way to boost up Bieksa just like others do the opposite. In reality, they are two very different players and are really not directly comparable. I guess the fact that they are both coming up to ufa status makes it somewhat natural to compare which one to keep.

I am widely seen as a huge hater of Bieksa but I dont hate him at all and never have. I have certainly hated things about his play at many times over the years though. Having said that, I am happy he is playing better than he has previously.

If you mean from the previous season....then you know the reason he didn't play or perform so well....we don't need to rehash the reasons why. If you're referring to this year....aside from perhaps the first 10 games...he's been pretty consistent. Although his play wasn't reaping points his game is pretty much the same for most of the season, except that he's now getting the puck bounces that were working against him earlier. I'm not saying that he hasn't improved as the season went along....I'm saying that if you look at the breadth of his style of play this year...not much has changed.....the consistency though gives him the ability to be appreciated a bit more this year...and that's why we've seen a gradual but overwhelming support for him as well, as the year's gone on.

I don't have anything to add on Ehrhoff, because I like what he's doing in the role that's been carved out for him...as I like what Bieksa's doing in the role carved out for and by him.

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Switching gears a bit, Bieksa's last several games have seen him revert to norm. Meaning, physically outmuscled, and making poor decisions with the puck. I'm not ready to say he's on cruise control again just yet, but yikes! he got manhandled in his own zone constantly by Anaheim's forwards. Yes, I know Anaheim has some tough forwards to play against, but this is supposed to be the big, bad Bieksa. His lack of size was painfully evident last night.

With Hamhuis out, and with our other injuries on D, Bieksa will have his hands full in the next week or so. Interesting to see which Bieksa shows up against a resurgent Calgary.

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There is really only one person here who really hates whatever Bieksa do, everyone else who was fed up with his poor play before have converted and see him as a valuable player to the team's current success and glad that he is still on the team in this tough stretch where our top 4 are dropping like flies.

That one certain person has too much ego to admit he is wrong, too bad, or he was just plain crazy as he think Rypien is a valuable hockey player.

Oh and one more thing, somehow that person is just a copy cat, calling names for the sake of calling names, didn't know or forgot that lions are part of the cat family and cats are routinely called feline cats.

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If you mean from the previous season....then you know the reason he didn't play or perform so well....we don't need to rehash the reasons why. If you're referring to this year....aside from perhaps the first 10 games...he's been pretty consistent. Although his play wasn't reaping points his game is pretty much the same for most of the season, except that he's now getting the puck bounces that were working against him earlier. I'm not saying that he hasn't improved as the season went along....I'm saying that if you look at the breadth of his style of play this year...not much has changed.....the consistency though gives him the ability to be appreciated a bit more this year...and that's why we've seen a gradual but overwhelming support for him as well, as the year's gone on.

I don't have anything to add on Ehrhoff, because I like what he's doing in the role that's been carved out for him...as I like what Bieksa's doing in the role carved out for and by him.

Yes, I was talking about his play from previous seasons. I know the reasons many claim, namely his injuries, but that does not explain why he played poorly prior to being injured both times. It doesnt matter much to the argument I was making though.

He has been very consistent this season and we are fortunate for that. It is still not long enough to completely erase his past history in my mind though. I hope I am proven wrong about that though.

To clear things up a bit, the whole discussion I have been engaging in about +/- is actually not specific to Bieksa from my end. It is more my take and my feeling on +/- as a stand alone stat and as to how people constantly use it in isolation to make an absolute statement about a players defensive ability.

Switching gears a bit, Bieksa's last several games have seen him revert to norm. Meaning, physically outmuscled, and making poor decisions with the puck. I'm not ready to say he's on cruise control again just yet, but yikes! he got manhandled in his own zone constantly by Anaheim's forwards. Yes, I know Anaheim has some tough forwards to play against, but this is supposed to be the big, bad Bieksa. His lack of size was painfully evident last night.

With Hamhuis out, and with our other injuries on D, Bieksa will have his hands full in the next week or so. Interesting to see which Bieksa shows up against a resurgent Calgary.

Despite what the many supporters will say, there is some truth to these statements. Bieksa has not been nearly as effective physically or in his shutdown role lately. Neither has Hamhuis though either. Many want to cast off Ballard or claim he sucks, but Bieksa and Hamhuis definitely missed him last night against ANA. He takes a lot of pressure off them with the way he plays the game and solidifies another pairing, imo.

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As has been discussed at length previously, giveaways and takeaways are not really related to each other at all so lumping them together is not exactly a fair way to present them.

The fact that Bieksa has a lot of takeaways does not diminish the fact that he gives the puck away a lot too. And vice versa.

It doesn't change the fact that Ehrhoff gives the puck away more than twice as often as he takes it away. With only 11 takeaways it appears he really depends on somebody else getting the puck away from the opposition. When you consider Bieksa and Hamhuis play the most minutes against the oppositions top line and on the PK it's impressive that they both take the puck away more often than giving it away.

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