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Kevin Bieksa you are really...


Zigmund.Palffy

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Well almost the same:

Edler 0.44370861

Ehrhoff 0.44351464

While talking defensive strengths, lets talk durability, Ehrhoff has proven to be far more durable than the oft injured Bxa.

A guy can't play defense if he is out of the lineup with injury. Until this year, Bxa missed more games than Salo has in the previous 4 years due to injury.

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While talking defensive strengths, lets talk durability, Ehrhoff has proven to be far more durable than the oft injured Bxa.

A guy can't play defense if he is out of the lineup with injury. Until this year, Bxa missed more games than Salo has in the previous 4 years due to injury.

I disagree when you say Bieksa is not durable. The injuries that occured to Bieksa would of happened to anyone if the same thing happened to them. He was cut with a skate blade for both his long term injuries. Freak injuries. You didn't even respond to my other post by the way, I'd like to see your input.

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I don't understand why people try to compare Bieksa and Ehrhoff as if they are similar players. They are two different types of player and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Ehrhoff is a much better offensive player than Bieksa overall, is faster, is a better passer, and has a better shot. He is also a guy who can effectively quarterback a PP and has been a huge factor in the PP success this season because of how he meshes so well with the Sedins. Bieksa has been all but useless on the 2nd unit, which looked terrible all season long from the backend until Salo came back. That all counts for something as well.

A true effective PP quarterback is much harder to find.

If you had compared them last year under the same guidelines, what would the results have been? I am willing to bet some of those advantages would have been reversed.

I realize this, but I was just trying to refute the point Canucklelion made about Ehrhoff being a better defenseman. Thats why i posted all defensive stats, not the power play stats and such. Also the 2nd unit gets barely 30 seconds out of each powerplay if any time at all, and has no substance in comparison to the first unit. When Bieksa was on the first powerplay unit in past seasons he put up similar point totals as Ehrhoff also. But I will agree that Ehrhoff has the better shot, the better speed and the better passing. All I was trying to argue was defensive stats.

Also, if Ehrhoff is a better offensive player, why does Bieksa outperform him when it comes to 5 on 5 offensively? Not trying to imply Bieksa is better offensively, just a question to ponder =P. I think a lot of Ehrhoff's stats can be attributed to being able to play on the #1 powerplay unit in the league. There is no way of proving if this is true or not of course cause that would just be predicting hypothetical situations, but the skills he has should carry over to his 5 on 5 play as well if he is the better offensive player.

Another thing to consider is their PPG's over their careers.

Bieksa 0.426

Ehrhoff 0.444

Bieksa isn't that far behind.

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Canucks will sign either Erhoff or Bieksa based on their playoff performances this year unless they both take enormous discounts which I doubt will happen. Here are the pros and cons of Erhoff and Bieksa.

Erhoff

- makes powerplay better

- durable

- can easily gain the offensive zone

- Canucks are 4-0 against Blackhawks when he scores

- takes unnecessary penalties

- horrible givaways

Bieksa

- right-handed

- blocks many shots

- physial presense

- logs big minutes

- not as durable

- takes some penalties

- fights when unnecessary

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So if you call BXa' s currently being plus16 higher than Ehrhoff impressive, what would you call Ehrhoff's plus 41 higher than Bxa's performance last year? Out of this world?

Ehrhoff is far more consistent than Bxa whether playing big minutes or not. Last year I recall Ehrhoff at 29 minutes a couple of times, he is a guy AV can rely on for big minutes, whereas playing big minutes for Bxa is fairly new development and always an adventure, kinda like a box o chocolates. lol

Ehrhoff was far and away better than Bieksa last year. Kevin did not have a great season, and Christian very much did. "Out of this world" as a bit hyperbolic, but for the sake of argument, sure.

As for Ehrhoff playing 29 minutes "a couple times" last year is not the same as averaging what he has over the last 10 games. It's playing high minutes night after night that wears him down, and this is what we are seeing right now. Are you denying that Ehrhoff is not playing his best hockey right now?

Why did you turn this conversation towards Bieksa playing big minutes? I never claimed he was a big minute defenceman. He is best in the 18-20 minute range, and like most defencemen his play suffers when he plays too many minutes.

oh yeah, "lol".

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Why don't we just agree to disagree? After 370+ pages you should know that his opinion is never gonna change until Bieksa is out of the Canucks system, lol

Yeah you're totally right. Bieksa sucks, trade that useless bum.

Good day.

It's kinda entertaining watching him present a criticism, have it debunked, avoid it and change the criticism, have the debunked, change the criticism again, ect...

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career PPG seem to indicate that Ehrhoff is in fact not "a much better offensive player than Bieksa overall" although that may be your opinion.

Bieksa 0.426

Ehrhoff 0.443

Salo 0.410

Edler 0.443

Ballard 0.35  

As for QBing the PP that goes to Mr Sedin.

Ehrhoff GENERATES a lot of offensive chances and opportunities, especially on the PP. Much more so than Bieksa, who is good offensively too but tends to rely more on others, especially on the PP.

The PP itself relies heavily on puck movement and shots from the point. Are you really trying to suggest that Ehrhoff has not been a lot better than Bieksa at quarterbacking the PP and driving offense from the point? Come on. Bieksa has been ineffective on the PP this season and you all know it.

Henrik and Daniel benefit a lot from Ehrhoff on the PP and I am sure they would be the first to say so. To diminish his role there is pretty unfair.

point per game averages for their careers are all well and good, but they are probably a bit skewed considering Bieksa spent most of his career getting top minutes and a lot of PP time while Ehrhoff was behind players like Blake in SJ, playing on the 2nd pairing and 2nd PP a lot.

Since emerging in Vancouver, Ehrhoff's offensive trajectory is up. Bieksa's is clearly down. Ehrhoff is the better offensive player at this point in time by a long shot.

Bieksa is good offensively for sure, but let's be realistic. He is not the smooth skating, great passing, accurate shooting type of offensive player that Ehrhoff is.

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Ehrhoff GENERATES a lot of offensive chances and opportunities, especially on the PP. Much more so than Bieksa, who is good offensively too but tends to rely more on others, especially on the PP.

The PP itself relies heavily on puck movement and shots from the point. Are you really trying to suggest that Ehrhoff has not been a lot better than Bieksa at quarterbacking the PP and driving offense from the point? Come on. Bieksa has been ineffective on the PP this season and you all know it.

Henrik and Daniel benefit a lot from Ehrhoff on the PP and I am sure they would be the first to say so. To diminish his role there is pretty unfair.

point per game averages for their careers are all well and good, but they are probably a bit skewed considering Bieksa spent most of his career getting top minutes and a lot of PP time while Ehrhoff was behind players like Blake in SJ, playing on the 2nd pairing and 2nd PP a lot.

Since emerging in Vancouver, Ehrhoff's offensive trajectory is up. Bieksa's is clearly down. Ehrhoff is the better offensive player at this point in time by a long shot.

Bieksa is good offensively for sure, but let's be realistic. He is not the smooth skating, great passing, accurate shooting type of offensive player that Ehrhoff is.

Ehrhoff was tied with Blake with 3:01 of PP time per game in 08/09. Boyle had much more, but they tied for 2nd.

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Ehrhoff GENERATES a lot of offensive chances and opportunities, especially on the PP. Much more so than Bieksa, who is good offensively too but tends to rely more on others, especially on the PP.

The PP itself relies heavily on puck movement and shots from the point. Are you really trying to suggest that Ehrhoff has not been a lot better than Bieksa at quarterbacking the PP and driving offense from the point? Come on. Bieksa has been ineffective on the PP this season and you all know it.

Henrik and Daniel benefit a lot from Ehrhoff on the PP and I am sure they would be the first to say so. To diminish his role there is pretty unfair.

point per game averages for their careers are all well and good, but they are probably a bit skewed considering Bieksa spent most of his career getting top minutes and a lot of PP time while Ehrhoff was behind players like Blake in SJ, playing on the 2nd pairing and 2nd PP a lot.

Since emerging in Vancouver, Ehrhoff's offensive trajectory is up. Bieksa's is clearly down. Ehrhoff is the better offensive player at this point in time by a long shot.

Bieksa is good offensively for sure, but let's be realistic. He is not the smooth skating, great passing, accurate shooting type of offensive player that Ehrhoff is.

Again we will have to disagree.

As far as Ehrhoff creating chances that don't get "counted" the same can be said of Bieksa. Bieksa has made several plays this year where he didn't get a point whether that was making a nice move at the line to keep the play alive or creating a distraction in front of the net.

You claimed Ehrhoff was the PP QB. I did not claim that Bieksa was better in that regard what I did say was Ehrhoff is not the PP QB but that Sedin was. The PP QB often gets attributed to someone at the point but the definition is who actually who "calls the shots" on the PP just like the QB in football.

Ehrhoff just like Bieksa feeds off other players mainly the sedins. The PP time should give you more points and playing on the 1st unit which gets the bulk of the time should get the bulk of the points. Nevermind the strategy this year has changed from a balanced 1st and 2nd unit to stacking the first unit and it's paid off handsomely for the Canucks.

For some reason Bieksa is outpacing Ehrhoff at even strength. Maybe Bieksa is getting more EV time?

As for skating I don't see the evidence that Ehrhoff is vastly better than Bieksa. He has a smoother for but that doesn't necessarily mean the end result is quote unquote better.

Like you sad different players different skills sets.

You claimed Ehrhoff was much better offensively and the stats simply don't bear that out.

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Again we will have to disagree.

As far as Ehrhoff creating chances that don't get "counted" the same can be said of Bieksa. Bieksa has made several plays this year where he didn't get a point whether that was making a nice move at the line to keep the play alive or creating a distraction in front of the net.

You claimed Ehrhoff was the PP QB. I did not claim that Bieksa was better in that regard what I did say was Ehrhoff is not the PP QB but that Sedin was. The PP QB often gets attributed to someone at the point but the definition is who actually who "calls the shots" on the PP just like the QB in football.

Ehrhoff just like Bieksa feeds off other players mainly the sedins. The PP time should give you more points and playing on the 1st unit which gets the bulk of the time should get the bulk of the points. Nevermind the strategy this year has changed from a balanced 1st and 2nd unit to stacking the first unit and it's paid off handsomely for the Canucks.

For some reason Bieksa is outpacing Ehrhoff at even strength. Maybe Bieksa is getting more EV time?

As for skating I don't see the evidence that Ehrhoff is vastly better than Bieksa. He has a smoother for but that doesn't necessarily mean the end result is quote unquote better.

Like you sad different players different skills sets.

You claimed Ehrhoff was much better offensively and the stats simply don't bear that out.

Actually, the stats show exactly that.

In 25 more games over the past 2 years, Ehrhoff has scored 15 more goals and 24 more assists. That is 39 more points in 25 more games. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

As far as Bieksa "outpacing" Ehrhoff in ES points this season, that is true. He has a whopping 1 more goal and 4 more assists this season. Last season, Ehrhoff had 6 more ES goals and they both had 13 ES assists though.

I think the 10 more PP goals and the 27 more PP assists over that span for Ehrhoff would outweigh that a fair bit.

Ehrhoff is a much better, faster, and more fluid skater than Bieksa.

Regarding creating chances: Keeping pucks in at the line is important for sure. I meant actually getting shots to (or in) the net and creating opportunities that way. If you go back far enough on a play, every player had some kind of impact or touched the puck. When you are talking aggressively creating plays on the PP, Ehrhoff wins hands down over Bieksa.

One has an increasing trajectory and the other one has a declining trajectory when it comes to point production and offensive effectiveness. Which is which?

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To put things into perspective regarding the PP argument.

Salo has 1 less PP point than Bieksa and he has played a whopping 3:14 in total PP time to Bieksa's 97:38 total PP time. Bieksa has been given a spot on the 2nd PP unit all season long and has done little with it.

There is no "1st line PP" argument either. Salo has been on the 2nd unit his miniscule time on the PP. It comes down to effectiveness.

Bieksa has done a lot of good things this season for sure. Being effective on the PP or generating things for the 2nd PP unit has not been one of them.

He has had about half the total time on the PP as Ehrhoff has had. Ehrhoff has 23 PP points. Bieksa has 2. Over 10 times as many points in just over 2 times the PP ice time. Impressive no matter how you slice it.

Ehrhoff actually has more PP points than everyone but Henrik and Daniel. Even more than Kesler. I would say he generates a fair bit for the team on the PP. Diminishing his importance is typical of Bieksa supporters, but the facts are what they are.

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To put things into perspective regarding the PP argument.

Salo has 1 less PP point than Bieksa and he has played a whopping 3:14 in total PP time to Bieksa's 97:38 total PP time. Bieksa has been given a spot on the 2nd PP unit all season long and has done little with it.

There is no "1st line PP" argument either. Salo has been on the 2nd unit his miniscule time on the PP. It comes down to effectiveness.

Bieksa has done a lot of good things this season for sure. Being effective on the PP or generating things for the 2nd PP unit has not been one of them.

He has had about half the total time on the PP as Ehrhoff has had. Ehrhoff has 23 PP points. Bieksa has 2. Over 10 times as many points in just over 2 times the PP ice time. Impressive no matter how you slice it.

Ehrhoff actually has more PP points than everyone but Henrik and Daniel. Even more than Kesler. I would say he generates a fair bit for the team on the PP. Diminishing his importance is typical of Bieksa supporters, but the facts are what they are.

I dont know if your referring to my posts, but I was not trying to diminish Ehrhoffs importance to our team, he is definitely a key asset to our #1 powerplay unit. I was just trying to show that other than the powerplay, their play is quite similar statistically, and actually defensively stats favor Bieksa's play. It was in response to all the people who were trying to argue Ehrhoff is the better defensive player.

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I dont know if your referring to my posts, but I was not trying to diminish Ehrhoffs importance to our team, he is definitely a key asset to our #1 powerplay unit. I was just trying to show that other than the powerplay, their play is quite similar statistically, and actually defensively stats favor Bieksa's play. It was in response to all the people who were trying to argue Ehrhoff is the better defensive player.

Statistics can be funny things. What would you say if I told you that Bieksa has 10 of his points this season and is a +21 against these 10 teams: EDM, OTT, NYI, NJD, COL, TOR, FLA, BUF, CAR, NYR

What do most of these teams have in common? Well, 8 of them happen to be the bottom 8 teams in the NHL right now. The 7th and 8th seeds in the East round out the teams. Also, only 2 are in the Western Conference. Not exactly the cream of the NHL crop.

Against the same bottom feeders, Ehrhoff has 11 points and is a -1.

Against the 17 "best" teams they have played, Bieksa has 9 points and is a +5: CBJ, STL, CHI, ANA, CGY, MTL, DAL, LAK, MIN, NSH, WSH, SJS, PHX, PIT, TBL, DET, PHI

What do these teams have in common? Well, all are either playoff bound or fighting hard for a playoff spot. It also includes the other 12 teams in the West battling for a playoff spot.

Against these teams, Ehrhoff has 25 points and is a +13.

An argument could be made that Bieksa is looking miles better defensively and similar offensively, but is that really the case? Or is it the case against bottom dwelling teams and the Eastern Conference teams while Ehrhoff's numbers are actually better against teams in the playoffs and trying to get in the playoffs and also against Western teams?

Stats can be funny things. I like guys who bring it against the teams we have to get through in the playoffs.

How comfortable does this stat make you?

Bieksa - 0 points and -5 against CHI this season. I hope he isn't our go-to shutdown guy if we play them again.

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