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Kevin Bieksa you are really...


Zigmund.Palffy

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Sometimes I read a comment like the above and am stopped in my tracks.

Astounding.

Ehrhoff can pull away from opponents in his own zone in a few strides. Bieksa has below-average acceleration. It takes him quite a while to work into a full glide.

It's sad how the Bieksa lovers need to create these delusional beliefs in order to boost their own poster boy.

Edit: Oh, and wait for it. The next time Bieksa gets beaten one-on-one the excuse will be: "he's still recovering from an injured foot".

laugh.gif

Looks who's back.

Stick around for awhile....me and the boys need a new chew toy.

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You're next on the couch. Or not.

I certainly wouldn't want Employee of the Month as my client.

You know what's funny about this.

I have a masters in Psychology and work as a child therapist.

On top of that...in terms of this current psychological debate...you're all kind of wrong. Psychology plays a part in everything but this subconscious bull&$*^ and contract year is way off. You've all watched too many movies.

Here's how it works...if he's really only playing in contract years (which isn't true but whatever) then that is his conscious mind at work. Now for those arguing the psychology let me tell you that if this is the hill you want to plant your flag on not only are you wrong but now you have to deal with the fact that in actuality you must be directly coming out an saying that Bieksa is purposefully only playing during contract years. Any of you willing to be that stupid?

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You know what's funny about this.

I have a masters in Psychology and work as a child therapist.

On top of that...in terms of this current psychological debate...you're all kind of wrong. Psychology plays a part in everything but this subconscious bull&$*^ and contract year is way off. You've all watched too many movies.

Here's how it works...if he's really only playing in contract years (which isn't true but whatever) then that is his conscious mind at work. Now for those arguing the psychology let me tell you that if this is the hill you want to plant your flag on not only are you wrong but now you have to deal with the fact that in actuality you must be directly coming out an saying that Bieksa is purposefully only playing during contract years. Any of you willing to be that stupid?

I could think of one person.

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You know what's funny about this.

I have a masters in Psychology and work as a child therapist.

On top of that...in terms of this current psychological debate...you're all kind of wrong. Psychology plays a part in everything but this subconscious bull&$*^ and contract year is way off. You've all watched too many movies.

Here's how it works...if he's really only playing in contract years (which isn't true but whatever) then that is his conscious mind at work. Now for those arguing the psychology let me tell you that if this is the hill you want to plant your flag on not only are you wrong but now you have to deal with the fact that in actuality you must be directly coming out an saying that Bieksa is purposefully only playing during contract years. Any of you willing to be that stupid?

I, for one, have never stated that he (or any player) is ONLY playing in a contract year. That seems to be a rather big distinction in your response. I simply said he has shown a pattern of playing better in contract years. That is really not disputable. Blame injuries or whatever you want to but the fact is his two best overall seasons in the NHL have been contract seasons, right?

Many are saying that by suggesting that there are players who seem to play better in a contract year it means that I am saying they ONLY try in a contract year. Show me where I said that.

Based on what I HAVE said and the fact that you are an expert on the subject, why is it stupid to suggest that there are players who try HARDER during contract years? When things that motivate them are more front and center? I think that goes to the very heart of someone getting motivated, doesnt it? Does a persons response to a motivating factor ALWAYS have to be a 100% conscious decision? (I do really want to know the answer to that....)

I mean, despite what they always say in interviews, I am not sure I believe that there are absolutely no professional athletes who are motivated by things other than improving as an individual player, things like:

1. Money.

2. Job security.

3. Proving people wrong or right about them depending on which side people fall on.

4. Impressing their bosses in a year when a decision will be made about their future.

I don't think there are ANY pro athletes who ONLY play in a contract year. I do think there are many who try harder in a contract year though, paying attention to details more, following what your coaches are telling you to do more closely, playing more through injuries, etc.

- even if they believe they are playing the same way they always have, which most of them say when asked. If they truly believe that, then how would it be a conscious decision to try harder?

I am not sure how this is a stupid suggestion at all.

If you look on CDC, a lot of people have suggested that players like Torres, Tambellini, etc. have to play better and more consistently if they want to stick in the NHL. How is that argument really much different? I mean, they are both in contract years too.

If you want to PM me your responses because you believe it is not warranted to discuss it in this thread, I look forward to it. I am not an expert like you but the subject fascinates me. Either way, I hope to hear back with your take on this.

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I, for one, have never stated that he (or any player) is ONLY playing in a contract year. That seems to be a rather big distinction in your response. I simply said he has shown a pattern of playing better in contract years. That is really not disputable. Blame injuries or whatever you want to but the fact is his two best overall seasons in the NHL have been contract seasons, right?

DOn't be such a puss. Those two things are one in the same sir. "Oh I never said he did but OMG isn't it kind of funny that he doooooeeeess. You

said it be it a round about way or directly it doesn't matter.

Many are saying that by suggesting that there are players who seem to play better in a contract year it means that I am saying they ONLY try in a contract year. Show me where I said that.[/qoute] You didn't I said that in my post. You know not everything has to revolve around what you said mr conceited.

Well of course there is motivation but now you're sugar coating it again. Own up to what you're saying and just say it. Either that or you really need to choose your words better. There is no subconscious brain at work you simply think Bieksa is only playing well because it's a contract year. Is that not what you're implying? If not then why in the flying &*$^ is it even being discussed and why have you bothered to perpetuate this bull&$*^ topic of subconsciousness? (That's what my post was refering to; not you and not the idea that players have motivations that effect their play.

I find it funny that you

put so much credence and thought into this motivation but I can't remember once where I've seen you acknowledge his injuries in the "lean" years in any detail at all. Not saying that you haven't just that you're really taking this "thread" and running with it. Carefully eventually the sweater will be gone.

For god sakes because they're lying. That's not the way the brain works. You talked ab

out motivations and that's all well and good but do you honestly think that the players don't know about these motivations? That's just one part of it and I'm using that because it fits with what you're saying. If we'd like to go deeper I have to give you required reading homework. As well about $100 in beer to get through the god damn things.

A lot of people on CDC think Ballard is useless and we shouldn't have traded Grabner for him. What do you think about that?

[quote

If you want to PM me your responses because you believe it is not warranted to discuss it in this thread, I look forward to it. I am not an expert like you but the subject fascinates me. Either way, I hope to hear back with your take on this.

I heart you.

The simple way to say it is that the subconscious brain is not capable of doing what you said. Especially not when the motivations and benefits are right in front of and known to the player. There's no doubt that a contract is motivation so as I said previously we're talking about the conscious brain.

As I've always said though there are other things in Bieksas career to point to but the "contract year" folk (and I'm actually not refering to you when I said that...think more along the lines of someone named after a mediocre back up goalie from the past.) never seem to want to acknowledge that in the slightest. You at least give it some due.

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Thank you for the response.

I still do not think that saying someone tries harder (for whatever reason) at a certain point in time is the same as saying they do not try at all in other years, but I will take your word for it.

You are obviously a knowledgeable person and I appreciate the answers. I just wanted to clear up that I was asking you in a sincere way, not a facetious one. The tone of your responses seems to suggest you believed the opposite.

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Now to go completely in another direction...

I think one thing I noticed since the injuries was a particular aspect of how HamJuice worked together so well. I noticed that Bieksa likes to make a lot of short plays. Say, right after he makes a very good play and he doesn't clear the zone, he usually just likes to bat the puck away or make a short pass. In which when Juice and Hammer were paired together, Hamhuis would read that really well and usually be there to take those passes.

I dunno... just the little things that were such a big part of the team's success. Let's hope Juice is back soon! (Any update on him, by the way?)

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laugh.gif

Looks who's back.

Stick around for awhile....me and the boys need a new chew toy.

There's no way Barry_Wilkins will comeback here consistently after the crap he posted earlier in this thread. Barry's opinion is worthless and is one of CDCs worst trolls.

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Thank you for the response.

I still do not think that saying someone tries harder (for whatever reason) at a certain point in time is the same as saying they do not try at all in other years, but I will take your word for it.

I'm not saying that saying one means the other either nor am I even debating that. You put it perfectly actually when you made the example of motivations.

You are obviously a knowledgeable person and I appreciate the answers. I just wanted to clear up that I was asking you in a sincere way, not a facetious one. The tone of your responses seems to suggest you believed the opposite.

Hater :D

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Somehow the haters still get the facts wrong.

Bieksa is playing well WHEN he is healthy, and it's just so happens to be on the contract years because he was SERIOUSLY INJURED during the duration of the contract.

Even many of his biggest supporters will admit that he played pretty badly, especially defensively, BEFORE his first injury and AFTER he signed his big contract.

To blame his injuries for 100% of his poor play over the years is just as wrong as saying that injuries have not been a contributing factor to ANY of his poor play over the years.

Injuries, inconsistency, and poor decision making ALL have played a large role in his up and down play throughout his contract. Half a year does not completely wipe out the last four.

And saying "Just so happens" does not change the facts to what you want them to be.

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Even many of his biggest supporters will admit that he played pretty badly, especially defensively, BEFORE his first injury and AFTER he signed his big contract.

To blame his injuries for 100% of his poor play over the years is just as wrong as saying that injuries have not been a contributing factor to ANY of his poor play over the years.

Injuries, inconsistency, and poor decision making ALL have played a large role in his up and down play throughout his contract. Half a year does not completely wipe out the last four.

And saying "Just so happens" does not change the facts to what you want them to be.

Depends on when you say his first major injury happened. Some want to count the skate cut but I would say the abdominal injury he suffered in the off season prior to the first skate cut is a pretty tough one to play through as well.

Other than that I disagree that he played badly before that, in fact he played very well which is why he got the contract he got.

I would agree though that it's not 100% to blame. While I would say injuries like the several he suffered are serious one also has to take into account his being thrown out there on the ice with no real role (which we found out this season) and his obvious insecurity (mental game if you will) about getting back on the ice after such injury all played a role as well.

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Now to go completely in another direction...

I think one thing I noticed since the injuries was a particular aspect of how HamJuice worked together so well. I noticed that Bieksa likes to make a lot of short plays. Say, right after he makes a very good play and he doesn't clear the zone, he usually just likes to bat the puck away or make a short pass. In which when Juice and Hammer were paired together, Hamhuis would read that really well and usually be there to take those passes.

I dunno... just the little things that were such a big part of the team's success. Let's hope Juice is back soon! (Any update on him, by the way?)

Absolutely. It's obvious to (virtually) everyone that the two have developed a real chemistry since being paired by Bowness, early this season.

In fact, I'd have to say that after watching the game against the Habs, that Hammer misses Juice every bit as much as the haters were saying the opposite, when Bieksa was in and Hamhuis was out.

Even many of his biggest supporters will admit that he played pretty badly, especially defensively, BEFORE his first injury and AFTER he signed his big contract.

To blame his injuries for 100% of his poor play over the years is just as wrong as saying that injuries have not been a contributing factor to ANY of his poor play over the years.

Injuries, inconsistency, and poor decision making ALL have played a large role in his up and down play throughout his contract. Half a year does not completely wipe out the last four.

And saying "Just so happens" does not change the facts to what you want them to be.

As EOTM said, I disagree that he played "poorly" in all but the first half of this season.

Another point that you seem to ignore regarding Juice's previous defensive play, (I know you're aware of it, because I've made the point several times in this thread) is the fact that early in his career, the Canucks were not the offensive juggernaut that they are now.

They needed extra offense from the back end and Bieksa's occasional defensive lapses were seen by the coaching staff and management as an acceptable trade-off for the offensive contributions that he was making.

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