Sharpshooter Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 the huge stupid cloud hanging over this thread is you sharpshooter. you defending that complete team-killer bieksa shows me your lack of intelligence. bieksa is a cancer to the team, killing it, and yet you come on here and defend him. how absolutely moronic is that? are you his boyfriend or something? is there something here you're not telling us? you love him or something? a boy/man love? yech. you creep me out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXfQzfl9EQ What's with you and boy/man love? Dirty old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacrilage Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Henrik Sedin has said that Alex Burrows chirps more than anyone on the team....but Kes does go a bit into the blue area verbally every once in a while..I will say that. Im all for chirping... but there are some topics that are off limits... Family is one, and the Avery Gorilla comment to Big Georges is another... Thankfully RK hasnt gone the second yet... that we know anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 In order for me to "take", laugh at, understand a joke it's gotta be funny. I wouldnt expect you to find it amusing or funny at all, considering you are one of the extreme people I was referring to. The biggest joke is this thread itself. I mean, it is obvious that there are a few people who will blame anyone but Bieksa and a few that will blame only Bieksa. What is there really left to say about the guy? I mean, he is both good and bad, makes stupid fundamental mistakes but can also turn on the offensive creativity and spark the team. Why keep insulting each other to try to prove a point that no longer has anything to do with Bieksa but with having to be right? Why not face reality that both extreme sides of the argument are wrong anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I think we all know Bieksa one way or the other will be gone by next season. It is amazing to me though how his play has deteriorated after those 2 skate cut injuries. He is trying to play aggressive this year at the very least but he is often overaggressive and ends up taking a bad penalty to hurt the team. The more simple he plays the better. I have really lowered by expectations for this guy and I would just be happy if he played a simple and safe game and limited the glaring errors while playing physical. Besides that there is not much more to say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 sharpshooter, your obvious lack of attention to the facts is laughable. off the forum and leave mommy's computer alone ha ha. You should boycott the boards until he decides to go. That'll teach'im. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I dont think its extreme. He is not to the classless level of Avery no, but he does have the same MO... Maby you are right, and Ott is a better comparison. When the guy has to keep having "chats" team mates be it on the Canucks or Team Silver I think that kind of proves what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Voucer Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Henrik Sedin has said that Alex Burrows chirps more than anyone on the team....but Kes does go a bit into the blue area verbally every once in a while..I will say that. I think he's better at cawing than chirping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JWxaTfIqFQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 You should boycott the boards until he decides to go. That'll teach'im. I don't think we'll be so fortunate. Good suggestion though. He does love a good boycott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippbe Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 according to nhl.com, only Ehrhoff and Edler are averaging over 24 mins per game on the canucks AV is riding this pair more 5v5 and on the PP 2 years ago bieksa had the highest TOI per game on our team not too hard to do some searching As clearly stated in my post, I was simply referencing the TOI from the poster two above mine. AV is riding Erhoff and Edler more, as I said again. They face the other team's top line more times than not and have the prime powerplay time. B&H are getting, as I said (yet again), plenty of time playing with the Sedin's at 5v5. I'd say this is worthy of negating the benefits E&E get of being on the first line powerplay. The edge comes down to E&E simply getting more playing time, the majority of which comes with the second line. If that's too hard to follow for you, since your comprehension is suspect, points getting Bieksa/Hamhuis Erhoff/Edler Plays with Sedins 5v5 = FIrst line PP Second line PP < Play with Kes and MayRay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippbe Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I wouldnt expect you to find it amusing or funny at all, considering you are one of the extreme people I was referring to. The biggest joke is this thread itself. I mean, it is obvious that there are a few people who will blame anyone but Bieksa and a few that will blame only Bieksa. What is there really left to say about the guy? I mean, he is both good and bad, makes stupid fundamental mistakes but can also turn on the offensive creativity and spark the team. Why keep insulting each other to try to prove a point that no longer has anything to do with Bieksa but with having to be right? Why not face reality that both extreme sides of the argument are wrong anyway.... Agreed, the extreme sides of the arguments are fundamentally flawed and therefore invalid. Bieksa is someone who's physical, offensive and times, slick. He is also sloppy 1v1 defensively, has shown poor thought processes in regards to timing, and has a tendency to panic when facing something unexpected (puck in skates). In saying this, every player has their strengths and weaknesses. Bieksa's play, specifically his weaknesses, do not warrant this ongoing fad of ignorantly insulting him. He's not the best, by far, but he is a very decent defencemen. I for one see the argument you say has to do with "having to be right," more as an argument between those who have had an opinion conditioned into them and those who are appalled to watch it happen. I don't really see many extremists saying "OMGZOD BIEKSA=BEST DEFENCEMEN EVAAAAA!" but consistently there are "Bieksa deserves to be on the third pairing" or, "Bieksa singlehandedly allowed three goals last night," or my personal favourite, "Bieksa is marginally an NHL calibre defencemen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttock Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I wouldnt expect you to find it amusing or funny at all, considering you are one of the extreme people I was referring to. The biggest joke is this thread itself. I mean, it is obvious that there are a few people who will blame anyone but Bieksa and a few that will blame only Bieksa. What is there really left to say about the guy? I mean, he is both good and bad, makes stupid fundamental mistakes but can also turn on the offensive creativity and spark the team. Why keep insulting each other to try to prove a point that no longer has anything to do with Bieksa but with having to be right? Why not face reality that both extreme sides of the argument are wrong anyway.... This is pretty much what the bashers are saying. I'm as anti-Bieksa as they come and I admit that he does good things. Those things just aren't important though. Winning teams don't have guys like this. Winners execute, are consistent, have smooth fundamentals and sound hockey sense and make those around them better. Bieksa could score 20 goals and my opinion wouldn't really change. Hey, does Marc-Andre Bergeron have a job yet? Bieksa would provide value to lots of lesser teams around the league who need what he brings to the table, but he wouldn't be worth it to any team looking to contend. If you're a defender and you can't control a gap at all then it doesn't matter what else you do. Literally. There is a certain threshold of defensive ability below which no amount of offensive ability will make up for it. And he is NOT slick at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Agreed, the extreme sides of the arguments are fundamentally flawed and therefore invalid. Bieksa is someone who's physical, offensive and times, slick. He is also sloppy 1v1 defensively, has shown poor thought processes in regards to timing, and has a tendency to panic when facing something unexpected (puck in skates). In saying this, every player has their strengths and weaknesses. Bieksa's play, specifically his weaknesses, do not warrant this ongoing fad of ignorantly insulting him. He's not the best, by far, but he is a very decent defencemen. I for one see the argument you say has to do with "having to be right," more as an argument between those who have had an opinion conditioned into them and those who are appalled to watch it happen. I don't really see many extremists saying "OMGZOD BIEKSA=BEST DEFENCEMEN EVAAAAA!" but consistently there are "Bieksa deserves to be on the third pairing" or, "Bieksa singlehandedly allowed three goals last night," or my personal favourite, "Bieksa is marginally an NHL calibre defencemen". Downplaying his weaknesses or blaming other players in his stead is equally as ridiculous as saying he is not NHL calibre or that he singlehandedly allowed xxx number of goals. There are times (and have been times this season) where his misplays/bad decisions has cost this team. Try to get any of his more ardent supporters to admit that though. My favorite example there was someone blaming Ballard for taking a penalty which then apparently forced Bieksa to take another penalty while killing Ballards. RIDICULOUS..... It is not an all or nothing scenario. He does make big mistakes at bad times that do cost this team goals and games. So do other players, but he is easily the most visible and serious repeat offender of the same bad decisions over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Bang Boogie Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Bieksa isn't as bad as the haters here make him out to be. He's an okay defenceman, not bad but not good either. The only problem I have with Bieksa is his salary, which is not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
لني Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Since you considering me an example of the "extemists" you were referring to please go back to the post or posts where I have taken an extreme view of Bieksas play including downplaying his "mistakes" or blaming other players. I certainly wouldn't want your attempt at humour to be in vain. Downplaying his weaknesses or blaming other players in his stead is equally as ridiculous as saying he is not NHL calibre or that he singlehandedly allowed xxx number of goals. There are times (and have been times this season) where his misplays/bad decisions has cost this team. Try to get any of his more ardent supporters to admit that though. My favorite example there was someone blaming Ballard for taking a penalty which then apparently forced Bieksa to take another penalty while killing Ballards. RIDICULOUS..... It is not an all or nothing scenario. He does make big mistakes at bad times that do cost this team goals and games. So do other players, but he is easily the most visible and serious repeat offender of the same bad decisions over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
لني Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 His salary is the issue. At the moment his salary is a non-issue. Bieksa isn't as bad as the haters here make him out to be. He's an okay defenceman, not bad but not good either. The only problem I have with Bieksa is his salary, which is not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 This is pretty much what the bashers are saying. I'm as anti-Bieksa as they come and I admit that he does good things. Those things just aren't important though. Winning teams don't have guys like this. Winners execute, are consistent, have smooth fundamentals and sound hockey sense and make those around them better. Bieksa could score 20 goals and my opinion wouldn't really change. Hey, does Marc-Andre Bergeron have a job yet? Bieksa would provide value to lots of lesser teams around the league who need what he brings to the table, but he wouldn't be worth it to any team looking to contend. If you're a defender and you can't control a gap at all then it doesn't matter what else you do. Literally. There is a certain threshold of defensive ability below which no amount of offensive ability will make up for it. And he is NOT slick at all. See, this is a whole other argument, and one that is really the crux of the issue with Bieksa. Asking whether the skill he brings is worth the downside that comes with it, on this particular team at this particular point in time, is the real discussion that should be going on. I agree that his weaknesses overshadow his strengths on this team. On another team, that may not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 What possible reasoning do you have for this? Edler's only offensive skills are crisp passing (its strange, somehow everyone seems to miss the net when they get one of his passes, even tho they're tape to tape) and a good wrister, great slap shot from the blue line only. Trailer plays are not his thing. PInching, is not his thing. Dangling, is not his thing. It's exactly the opposite for Bieksa, and you'll notice that trailer plays, pinching, and dangling, are all indicative of a forwards game. Forwards tend to be the ones who get the majority of points Bieksa gets the majority of his points on the PP, as do all D men who play significant PP minutes. As someone else mentioned, 5 on 5 , Willie Mitchell was the leading point getter on the Canucks D last year. And whoever is playing the most with the Sedins 5 on 5 this year will get the most points this year, just as whoever is on the first pairing PP will also lead in PP points. Bieksa creates very little offense by himself 5 on 5, and he should, after several years, grab another brain cell, take the hint, and at least make a token effort to stay back of the play occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Here's for the goofs who would choose Obrien over Bieksa Obrien vs Crombeen Bieksa saving Keslers ass agaisnt Crombeen Defensively the two are the same, offensively Bieksa, physically Bieksa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 i haven't even watched a single pre-season or regular season game yet this year! (some of you may remember me as being the 35 year fan who decided to boycott watching canuck games until bieksa was gone). well, it is going quite well. the 12 hours of viewing time i saved so far went to other projects and i have been sorta okay without watching my home team. i don't know how long i can go, or whether i'll even get to see a game this year because of my decision, but so far so good.the main reason i won't watch the games is because i consider myself deserving of a successful team. i have watched almost every game since the canucks came into being, and after all that watching, my experiences are telling me that bieksa is a jinx that will cancer the entire team til he is gone. the rest of the guys you can win the cup with, but if you add the ingredient of a jinx - everything goes to s***.so having recognized the bieksa jinx, i have decided not to be disappointed by him anymore. his game-changing, tsn turning points (against) will not cause me anymore grief. 3 hours saved every game i don't watch. it's team canada and the candian national juniours for my big screen - not the canucks - who will never win the cup with bieksa jinxing the way. Big LOLz!! I feel your pain. I've watched from game 1, as well. Back in the day, people's shorts didn't get twisted because nobody expected anything from them. Then the long drought. Then hope coinciding with (not because of) Bieksa's arrival. It's not fair, I say. Not fair at all. But the future is bright. The Juiced One will be gone some time this season and you'll be able to watch the games again. Happy days soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I believe Bieksa is an asset and I think Gilman can pull some strings along the way to get the cap to work especially now with Ballard going on IR for concussion. It is not as black and white or there would be no need to pay someone good money as a capologist. So I choose depth unless a team throws a proposal and we get a good asset back, like getting someone like Bobby Ryan for Bieksa, Raymond, and maybe something else like Hansen. If the trade is not there, then keep the depth and have a lot of good dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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