Discussion-Philly Style Rebuild

[velocity]

If the worst were to happen and Gillis decided there was a need for and overhall. I believe with the strengths of the assets we have, we would be able to do a fast and effective turnaround similar to what Philly did last season when they traded part of their unstable core for younger, yet still effective players who can grow together and create a new core group for the future while still being competitive in the present.

If Gillis were to initiate such a renovation (we wont call it a rebuild) who would you see goiong and what would you like to see brought back in return. If the team were to take this route would you see them hanging on to Schneider because of his promising future or stay the course with the Veteran goalie Luongo anchoring and leading from experience from the back end similar to what Philly did bringing in Bryzgalov?

[Kass]

We cannot do what philly did because we do not have a up and coming super star (Giroux). If we were to do something like this it would not turn out nearly as good in the first year at least. Maybe in a few years down the road it would be

[Caboose]

We cannot do what philly did because we do not have a up and coming super star (Giroux). If we were to do something like this it would not turn out nearly as good in the first year at least. Maybe in a few years down the road it would be

[hockeyfan90]

We cannot do what philly did because we do not have a up and coming super star (Giroux). If we were to do something like this it would not turn out nearly as good in the first year at least. Maybe in a few years down the road it would be

[Bingo Chili]

if canucks exit out early, get columbus' #2 pick to change up the core a bit

[Kooner91]

I'll try making a team off the top of my head, using no thinking what's so ever.

To Van:

Tavares

Niederieter

To NYI:

Daniel Sedin

Henrik Sedin

To TB:

Luongo

Raymond

To Van:

Hedman

1st round pick

To Buf:

Tampa 1st round pick

To Van:

Foligno

Burrows-Tavares-Booth

Higgins-Kesler-Foligno

Hansen-Phalsson-Niederaiter

Kassian-Malhotra-Lappiere

Raymond

Edler-Hedman

Hamhuis-Bieksa

Conaughton-Tanev

Alberts

Schnieder

Lack

Did it in about 2minutes.

[Kass]

We did have an up and coming star...

[underrated]

The real motivation behind the Philly renovation was:

(1) The long-time need for a goaltender (and they had no cap space for him so needed to trade someone)

(2) The partying of Richards and Carter which rubbed the franchise the wrong way.

Therefore it is a very different situation than Vancouver.

[Paul Bissonnette]

I'll try making a team off the top of my head, using no thinking what's so ever.

To Van:

Tavares

NYI 1st(Murray)

Moulson

To NYI:

Daniel Sedin

Henrik Sedin

Jensen

To TB:

Luongo

Raymond

Malhotra

Van 1st

To Van:

Hedman

1st round pick

Malone

To Buf:

Tampa 1st round pick

To Van:

Foligno

Buf 2nd

Burrows-Tavares-Moulson

Malone-Kesler-Booth

Higgins-Pahlsson-Foligno

Kassian-Schroeder-Lappy/Hansen

Edler-Murray

Hamhuis-Bieksa

Hedman-Tanev

Connauton

Schnieder

Lack

Did it in about 2minutes.

[morrissex95]

If we don't win Round 1 or the cup this year, the Sedin Twins and Luongo have proven they can't win a Stanley Cup on the Vancouver Canucks. Obviously, we'd be sending the Twins to the Eastern Conference in any trade as well as Luongo. The Sedin Twins are two top line players that can get 80 points each and play a great cycle game. Every team in the East except Pittsburgh would be interested. Lu would get interest from New Jersey, Tampa, maybe Washington and the Florida Panthers.

I'll give an example of what we'd have to get in return for the Twins for this to be "Philly-style":

To WSH: Daniel Sedin + Henrik Sedin

To VAN: Backstrom, Laich, Brouwer, 10th Overall and Schultz

[Grind-Like-Lightning]

Trading Sedin Twins?

[Phil_314]

After only 2 games I do believe it's too fast to be considering something of the magnitude of rebuilding (simply put Quick has been on fire, the defense and power play have not, and their guys have been opportunistic). Many of the top supporting pieces are very good (Higgins, Burr, Hansen, Lapierre, hoping Booth shows his killer side, also Hamhuis, Bieksa, Salo if he chooses to not retire, Edler prior to his recent bad plays, Tanev, even Ballard when he's on his game) and can still contribute to a contending team. That being said, if changes need to be made I really doubt this team needs a full-on rebuild, though similar to the Philly rebuild this team could have a change of culture at the top. Unlike Philly though, these changes should come not due to locker room issues but just to eliminate the old structures and set plays that USED TO help them to be successful but which have become cliche.

Considering how they're the leaders, I'll start with the Sedins. The Twins thrive on working with space, but the Bruins and now the Kings show that (as is for most other players) the way to stop them is to limit their space and smother them. Furthermore, their set formula (Danny to Hank back to Danny for the goal in front with Burr doing his thing) won't work anymore because by stopping Hank from getting the puck through an obstacle course to Danny they know that Hank by himself is not a shooter and so he'll look to pass it off to someone else. However, if Hank (actually both of them) would drive the net (like Hank did before) and be willing to shoot more and go to the net with authority rather than strictly dangle around, spin back and set up that could help both of them diversify their games. In basketball terms if they can become triple threats (shoot/ pass/ drive to the net) they can be more dangerous, instead each component of the line is really too static or they're just passing around the outside, which really has to change.

Also, after last season's run it's apparent that at least now Kes isn't the same clutch beast that he was, capable of carrying the team on his back like he did in the Nashville series. With that said, it's far from the time to give up on him as I think he should only be a strong play making winger away from having an entire cohesive offensive group (the crash and bang AMEX line, while good at being quick and physical off the rush, really needs someone to connect the dots for Booth or Kes off the rush. If they had that they should be deadly).

If anything needs to be changed, it's not the core of the players, it's the overly traditional PP setup and their issues last game that cost them during their PP. Also, if any moves should be made it should be for someone who's a take-charge guy capable of making things happen when they need to be done. We had that in Kes but another top-level shooter or smaller but determined guy off the rush would really help to reignite the team as well.

[morrissex95]

Trading Sedin Twins?

[Grind-Like-Lightning]

I'll give an example of what we'd have to get in return for the Twins for this to be "Philly-style":

To WSH: Daniel Sedin + Henrik Sedin

To VAN: Backstrom, Laich, Brouwer, 10th Overall and Schultz

[Grind-Like-Lightning]

Look at the success Boston, Detroit and Nashville are having as of late. All of their top forwards are on the penalty kill. If we trade the Sedin Twins, I'd want to replace them with physical, faster players that crash the net harder.

[Kooner91]

I'm gonna go for another quicky because this is fun.

To Van:

Staal

Skinner

1st

To Car:

Daniel

Henrik

To Van:

Loui Eriksson

1st round pick

To Dal:

Roberto Luongo

Keith Ballard

To Phx:

Malhotra

Raymond

To Van:

Vermette

Sign Wideman 5mil per.

Eriksson-Staal-Skinner

Higgins-Kesler-Booth

Vermette-Pahlsson-Burrows

Hansen-Lappiere-Kassian

Schroeder,bitz

Edler-Wideman

Hamhuis-Bieksa

Conoughton-Tanev

Alberts

Schnieder

Lack

Cup.

[TheWheeler]

If Vancouver goes with a Philly-esque rebuild (I love it, that's going to be the talk of the summer due to Philly's success right now hah), the Sedin's HAVE to stay. Philly still had the luxury of Briere/Giroux/Hartnell staying with the team and we would still have the luxury of Sedin's/Burrows. The difference is not that far off.

The change would have to happen with the other players: Kesler, Booth, Raymond, Edler.

The problem is, who ins the league would actually be available that is the caliber of Schenn, van Reimsdyk, Couturier, Seguin, etc?

There's not a whole lot. And what makes it even harder are NTCs, there is no way Kesler would waive his no trade to go to a place like NYI or Columbus.

[Kooner91]

If Vancouver goes with a Philly-esque rebuild (I love it, that's going to be the talk of the summer due to Philly's success right now hah), the Sedin's HAVE to stay. Philly still had the luxury of Briere/Giroux/Hartnell staying with the team and we would still have the luxury of Sedin's/Burrows. The difference is not that far off.

The change would have to happen with the other players: Kesler, Booth, Raymond, Edler.

The problem is, who ins the league would actually be available that is the caliber of Schenn, van Reimsdyk, Couturier, Seguin, etc?

There's not a whole lot. And what makes it even harder are NTCs, there is no way Kesler would waive his no trade to go to a place like NYI or Columbus.

[Baka]

Some people against it should keep in mind that the Philly style rebuild was not just raw moves for the sake of making them, the model doesn't have to follow the full style of the Flyers move for move.

Philadelphia was a team that was talented enough to win a cup on paper but was not going to win one because of identity and character issues. The Carter and Richards issues went beyond the parties there were also strong reoccuring rumors of internal fueds involving them with coach Lavy as well as other players most named Pronger. Many may also remember Carter threw a tantrum when he was traded complaining because he had an unwritten agreement that Homer would not trade him before his NTC kicked in. It became especially obvious that there was a rift when anonymous Flyers ripped the two in the media.

In other words this was Philadelphia's front office stepping back and evaluating the character of this team and they decided to weed out talented but cancerous players to the team. This just means Vancouver can do the same, look at the roster and character of the team and decide if and who should be moved for the mentality of the team. One thing Philadelphia gained was incredible heart. Players like Richards may have played hard and was seen as a heart player but now the Flyers play as a team with heart and even as a fan you can see they seem to like each other much more compared to years past where the Flyers seemed to have different cliques in the locker room.

On the negative side when doing this you also have to look at all the factors that could not be seen ahead of time.

Good things that could not be forescene...

- Big things were expected from Giroux but 93 points in 77 games was beyond that.

- 37 goals from Scott Hartnell

- 19 goals from Max Talbot

- Sean Couturier falling in the draft to the Flyers and then making the team out of camp as an 18 year old and playing as strong as he has.

- Matt Read scoring 24 goals as an undrafted 25 year old rookie who no one ever heard of.

- 28 goals from Wayne Simmonds.

Then you have the bad things that could not be seen...

- Bryzgalov struggling most of the season

- Chris Pronger's career threatening and season ending injury

- Danny Briere struggling during the season

- JVR injured repeatedly the entire season and not living up to his expected role like Giroux did.

- Meszaros needing back surgery.

So it certainly is risky moving players like that because you need your return players as well as others to step up. The original plan saw the Flyers offense dropping to an average offense but the defense being among the NHL's best behind a deep roster of defenders led by Pronger and backed up by Bryzgalov in net. Which we can all see never happened.

[Gollumpus]

To Van:

Tavares

Niederieter

To NYI:

Daniel Sedin

Henrik Sedin

To TB:

Luongo

Raymond

To Van:

Hedman

1st round pick