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Bad Trades (And The Lack Of True Snipers.)


Braman

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Samuelsson or Booth?

Hodgson or Kassian?

Grabner or Ballard?

Shirokov or Bag of Pucks?

Erhoff or Bieksa? (Okay, this one wasn't a trade but still... Bieksa looks good when carried by Hamhuis but...)

In the previous series vs LA, Samuelsson bailed us out by being a good sniper, picking his spots, finding open ice (not just along the perimeter) and shooting from good positions. I know Samuelsson is old and Booth may potentially be better down the road but I feel like having Samuelsson with the Sedins instead of Booth would've made quite a difference.

Hodgson vs Kassian in the short term should be obvious to everyone. Hodgson was/is NHL ready and putting up half a point per game with VERY limited ice time (thanks, AV). He could've/would've done wonders with his playmaking if he were moved up to the second line (or maybe even with the Sedins) and moved to the wing. Remember that Kesler became the elite player he is now after playing on the wing with Sundin. That's how you learn and get better as a player - you play with players better than you. (And Hodgson is a better playmaking center than Kesler but Kesler is a better shooter and better defensively.) Why this never happened also baffles me. Hodgson could've been in the running for Rookie of the Year. With a true playmaker to set up Kesler, maybe that would've got Kesler's game going and had him score some goals! (Not a knock against Burrows or Lapierre but they play a different style of game and could help the team elsewhere.) Kess/Burr is excellent on D and on the rush but once everyone is set in the offensive zone, who's going to be setting up the scoring play?

There's a lot to be said about Grabner who may not have become the player he is without falling as his path would take him. But the kid had hands. And speed. Maybe he's not as fast as Raymond but unlike Raymond, he has finish and goes to the tough areas. He also came at a much lower cap hit. Meanwhile, Ballard is eating up 4.2(?) as a third pair defenseman. Rome or Alberts could have handled this position - or we could have picked up an upgrade elsewhere. Maybe retained Erhoff? More on that later. But for this, we certainly could've used some more scoring punch somewhere in the lineup. tons of control perimeter play does nothing if you're not going to set up a shooter in a good position to actually shoot the puck. You don't score by spending 2 minutes in the offensive zone without setting up a scoring play. Grabner could have helped here.

Erhoff. Was it really impossible to reach a deal? Maybe his rights were traded with the thought that he would still reach free agency and could still end up back in Vancouver? Remember that he scored a lot of goals and fit great in our lineup with the Sedins. He is an offensive minded defenseman with a good shot. He would get into the slot and find himself open for a pass from the Sedins to score that big goal. Our D this year simply wasn't as good as it was last year with Erhoff. Tanev plays well and will be an excellent defenseman but offensively, he's no Erhoff (yet?). And Ballard an Erhoff neither. He got the big money he wanted I guess. Maybe retaining him was impossible... But the cap hit was certainly favorable. Meanwhile Bieksa is getting paid more (higher cap hit) and just doesn't look nearly as good when he's not paired with Hamhuis or Edler (and Edler had a terrible, terrible playoff series. He's much better than that. Dunno what's wrong with him. Another topic for another thread.)

And how about Shirokov? That young skilled Russian sniper who seemed to be able to do it all offensively. Sure, his defensive play was lacking a bit but he could have at least scored some goals, created chances... We let him go for nothing. Why? Because AV refused to play him. Similar to Hodgson (and Grabner?), these guys were great offensively but mediocre defensively. Putting them in a position to do what they do well would have been great. But nope, coach AV wants to play a defensive game and hope the scoring comes from...?

I suspect AV is to blame for these trades because of his system and his complete failure to adapt to having an offensive lineup... But MG is human too. Hey, maybe something will pan out for next year? Utter failure this year. (Rants about AV and his failure to adapt, getting out-coached, etc can be found elsewhere)

TLDR: So... How about those trades? Wouldn't it have been nice to have some of these skilled offensive guys in the lineup to get us past an LA team that has little more than a great defense and a great goalie?

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We couldnt have done too much wrong. We made it to game 7 SCF. I think what happened is last season everything went right for us, everyone had career years or just good years in general, we were the best team by a mile and went to the final.

This year we werent as dominating, too many players had off years as well as the fatigue of playing so much last year takes its toll into the next season. We still won the presidents trophy, but sort of fell into that this year. I believe we need a shake up, but our core still needs to be in tact next season.

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Samuelsson or Booth?

Samuelsson at least understands how to play with linemates. booth just does his favourite power drive to the net into losing the puck move. putting him on a line with kes is a joke.

Hodgson or Kassian?

Kassian good hands? gotta be kidding me. he looks lost half the time. needs to make some plays instead of just throwing his body around. even weise can play better

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I felt the team did enough to win and more to-night, so while I am disappointed with the outcome I feel the team didn't let us down.

Having said that it is even more clear to me this year than last that size counts more in the SC playoffs.

I have said since the start of the season that we needed a big imposing D for in front of the net and a large gritty top 6 forward. See my thread below. It is not that I think anyone has let us down other than form lapses which could happen to the best of players......look at Getzlaf and Ovechkin.

/user/76755-bodee/">Bodee

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 04:27 PM

I have just been watching some videos of Markus Naslund playing with Todd Bertuzzi and I wondered if it was too late to get that big brawny skilled top 6 forward many if not all Canucks fans are craving.

This may sound like sacrilege but would you trade (********) + for that special type of player now and if so who? It should be noted that neither Naslund nor Bertuzzi were playing all that well at the time, so do you see a similar trade out there or get someone in their prime.

I feel that a trade of some kind now might really light a fire under this seasons effort to go one game further. I see too much similarity (apart from Kes) in our top 6 and imo we need someone to spread the load. Someone like Owen Nolan was 5 years ago.

Some names that might suit imo.............Brandon Dubinsky, David Backes, R.J. Umberger (ex VC?) David Clarkson.

But to answer your question.

I am on record as not thinking the Booth trade was right for us. I still think that. He is too costly, too one dimensional, too poor defensively. He does play a whole hearted game, is fearless and gives 100%. But $4.2M for that length is I'm afraid too much by half for these attributes.

I am not convinced by Hodgson physically. I think Kass WILL be better but he is NOT at the moment. I like Pahlsson. He is good physically and I think he will shine next season.

Ballard will be a star for us provided he remains on his natural side. We now have someone who looks worth the money on the 3rd line coaching Tanev.

Bieksa for me is and always will be twice the player Erhoff is. You can't put a price on guts and character alied with great offensive numbers. However we still need the big D imo.

Shirokov is immaterial to me in that he never established himself so who knows what his potential was?

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We couldnt have done too much wrong. We made it to game 7 SCF. I think what happened is last season everything went right for us, everyone had career years or just good years in general, we were the best team by a mile and went to the final.

This year we werent as dominating, too many players had off years as well as the fatigue of playing so much last year takes its toll into the next season. We still won the presidents trophy, but sort of fell into that this year. I believe we need a shake up, but our core still needs to be in tact next season.

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No....the window is closing fast and last year was your best chance. Do you feel that your pool of prospects offers you depth going forward ? It doesn't and the twins are getting older, Lou is on the downslide, the d is good but not great, Kesler the cartwheeler has has hip surgery twice....

The sun has set on this squad..

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I remember after the Kassian and Hodgson trade the cauncks were saying "we're looking at right now, not the future in this trade." REALLY!? well how did right now go? crap, out the first round. And how is the future gunna go? Well we lost a future star player for well kassian. It would've looked better with hodgson.

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with Hodgson we might have passed LA, specialy with the loss of Daniel early...but Hodgson wouldn't have made us win the cup.

Booth vs Samuelsson --> Everyone would do that trade anytime...it just hasn't worked out, due to the lack of playmaker on that line. Not like sammy is that much consistent either.

Grabner is not a top 6 on a contender. Yes he gets PP with Tavares and plays top 6 line on a poor islander team. Not convinced he would have made a difference on the wing with Kesler.

Ehrhoff is a liability defensively, at least Bieksa has some grits. Ehrhoff might have help our PP while Daniel was out but thats it.

I'd rather have a bag of puck than waste time developping Shirokov. Would never have been a top 6 nhl player, stop living in the past. Shirokov wasn't dominating the AHL, why would he dominate the NHL.

The true reason is lack of Sniper. When we need someone to score on the PP (2nd unit), 2 on 1, or Breakaway we miss to many chances. Yes Hansen, Higgins, Lapierre, score occasionnally in the season, but when it gets tighter in the playoffs, they can't put the dagger in. Same with Kesler, Burrows and Sedins, they have so many chances in a game but doesn't finish it and it pumps the others teams.

I,ve been saying it for a while, other Goalie don't play that good versus the Canucks, we make them look good by not being accurate and the lack of finish. How many time did we get beat (or didn't put the game out of reach) against Labarbera, Sanford, and other backup goaltender

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I wish the post was shorter but to sum it up, snipers is a glaring weakness, quick is a low goalie, and we had nobody who could pick a corner. We also need some bigger bodies who could have put in rebounds, the guys infront of the net were easily handled by the kings.

A bigger forward infront and some snipers is what were sorely lacking on offense.

I think we wont quick as successful vs st. louis.

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Totally agree and glad the OP pointed out its AV's system that prevents snipers from thriving.

The key to these defensive teams giving themselves a chance to win is creating a system that makes sense for offensive players to strike when they get their chance. After seeing players like ovi, semin, and kopitar be able work under defensive systems after coaching changes tells me that it is a coaching problem.

I believe both the system and the coaching in terms of communication and personnel decisions are at fault.

When I see LA's 4th line players have the confidence to take in the puck and make coordinated attacking plays while the Canucks 4 lines get one and done chances from the perimeter I really question the coaching.

A sniper under the right system with proper coordination could make the game easier for the whole team similarly to how a goalie can bail out a team's mistakes. It's too bad MG had to cater to AV's need for defensive grinders over the years. I'm more sad about that than the actual first round series loss. I feel like there's been wasted potential because of the coaching which is only finally being apparent in the mainstream.

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Once AV is let go, the offensive side of this team can be reborn. That is, after all, what made us more successful the previous year (more so than this stifling defensive system).

Also re Booth, as people stated, Kesler is not a playmaker and neither is Booth. I say one of our goalies might leave for Tampa's St Louis, where they need a goalie and we need a play maker for the second line.

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Holy crap. Sop with these threads. All I see is "OMGZZZ GUISE! GILLIS TRADED CODY FOR SUM GUISE WHO CAN'T EVEN PLAY HOCKEY!!!! WTF AND SAMUELSSON IS WAY BETTER THAN BOOTH!"

Cody would never work. He was used on the 2nd line wing earlier this season and it did not work. His line would get lit-up in this series if he was 3rd line center. And I also remember CDC calling for Samuelsson's beheading when he was playing horrible hockey in the early the beginning of the season . Grabner had 31 points. Ehrhoff needs the Sedins.

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Samuelsson or Booth?

Hodgson or Kassian?

Grabner or Ballard?

Shirokov or Bag of Pucks?

Erhoff or Bieksa? (Okay, this one wasn't a trade but still... Bieksa looks good when carried by Hamhuis but...)

In the previous series vs LA, Samuelsson bailed us out by being a good sniper, picking his spots, finding open ice (not just along the perimeter) and shooting from good positions. I know Samuelsson is old and Booth may potentially be better down the road but I feel like having Samuelsson with the Sedins instead of Booth would've made quite a difference.

Hodgson vs Kassian in the short term should be obvious to everyone. Hodgson was/is NHL ready and putting up half a point per game with VERY limited ice time (thanks, AV). He could've/would've done wonders with his playmaking if he were moved up to the second line (or maybe even with the Sedins) and moved to the wing. Remember that Kesler became the elite player he is now after playing on the wing with Sundin. That's how you learn and get better as a player - you play with players better than you. (And Hodgson is a better playmaking center than Kesler but Kesler is a better shooter and better defensively.) Why this never happened also baffles me. Hodgson could've been in the running for Rookie of the Year. With a true playmaker to set up Kesler, maybe that would've got Kesler's game going and had him score some goals! (Not a knock against Burrows or Lapierre but they play a different style of game and could help the team elsewhere.) Kess/Burr is excellent on D and on the rush but once everyone is set in the offensive zone, who's going to be setting up the scoring play?

There's a lot to be said about Grabner who may not have become the player he is without falling as his path would take him. But the kid had hands. And speed. Maybe he's not as fast as Raymond but unlike Raymond, he has finish and goes to the tough areas. He also came at a much lower cap hit. Meanwhile, Ballard is eating up 4.2(?) as a third pair defenseman. Rome or Alberts could have handled this position - or we could have picked up an upgrade elsewhere. Maybe retained Erhoff? More on that later. But for this, we certainly could've used some more scoring punch somewhere in the lineup. tons of control perimeter play does nothing if you're not going to set up a shooter in a good position to actually shoot the puck. You don't score by spending 2 minutes in the offensive zone without setting up a scoring play. Grabner could have helped here.

Erhoff. Was it really impossible to reach a deal? Maybe his rights were traded with the thought that he would still reach free agency and could still end up back in Vancouver? Remember that he scored a lot of goals and fit great in our lineup with the Sedins. He is an offensive minded defenseman with a good shot. He would get into the slot and find himself open for a pass from the Sedins to score that big goal. Our D this year simply wasn't as good as it was last year with Erhoff. Tanev plays well and will be an excellent defenseman but offensively, he's no Erhoff (yet?). And Ballard an Erhoff neither. He got the big money he wanted I guess. Maybe retaining him was impossible... But the cap hit was certainly favorable. Meanwhile Bieksa is getting paid more (higher cap hit) and just doesn't look nearly as good when he's not paired with Hamhuis or Edler (and Edler had a terrible, terrible playoff series. He's much better than that. Dunno what's wrong with him. Another topic for another thread.)

And how about Shirokov? That young skilled Russian sniper who seemed to be able to do it all offensively. Sure, his defensive play was lacking a bit but he could have at least scored some goals, created chances... We let him go for nothing. Why? Because AV refused to play him. Similar to Hodgson (and Grabner?), these guys were great offensively but mediocre defensively. Putting them in a position to do what they do well would have been great. But nope, coach AV wants to play a defensive game and hope the scoring comes from...?

I suspect AV is to blame for these trades because of his system and his complete failure to adapt to having an offensive lineup... But MG is human too. Hey, maybe something will pan out for next year? Utter failure this year. (Rants about AV and his failure to adapt, getting out-coached, etc can be found elsewhere)

TLDR: So... How about those trades? Wouldn't it have been nice to have some of these skilled offensive guys in the lineup to get us past an LA team that has little more than a great defense and a great goalie?

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No....the window is closing fast and last year was your best chance. Do you feel that your pool of prospects offers you depth going forward ? It doesn't and the twins are getting older, Lou is on the downslide, the d is good but not great, Kesler the cartwheeler has has hip surgery twice....

The sun has set on this squad..

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Hate to say it but maybe the Don Chery is right. Lack of Canadians in the top 9.

Sorry Raymond is useless and might of scored had he swung towards the net in of always like he always does.

Lappiere is a 4th liner so that only leaves Burrows.

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Holy crap. Sop with these threads. All I see is "OMGZZZ GUISE! GILLIS TRADED CODY FOR SUM GUISE WHO CAN'T EVEN PLAY HOCKEY!!!! WTF AND SAMUELSSON IS WAY BETTER THAN BOOTH!"

Cody would never work. He was used on the 2nd line wing earlier this season and it did not work. His line would get lit-up in this series if he was 3rd line center. And I also remember CDC calling for Samuelsson's beheading when he was playing horrible hockey in the early the beginning of the season . Grabner had 31 points. Ehrhoff needs the Sedins.

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