Mike Gillis-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[lmm]

Two theroies that just don't make sense to me

1 The Detroit Model

2 Stanley Cup Experience

1. I know Gillis stated he would use the Detroit Model, but other that poaching Samuelson how have the Canucks modeled themselves after Detroit? Detroit was built before the cap, hired Scotty Bowman, employed a litany of Norris calibur D, ( Fetisov, Lidstom, Chelios, Rafalski, ...), won Cups with Kocur and McCarty, and didn't trade for Florida's bad big contracts.

I would say that Vancouver has closer links to the San Jose/Washington model.

Win Presidents trophies but fail in playoffs ( Hank+Dank=Joe+Patrick=Ovi+Semin), overpay ( Heatley=Booth)

2. I feel Gillis and many cdc fans have overrated the "Experience" gained by going to the final. I think bringing in Samuelson when they did was a shrewd move but moving him out and adding Booth, Weise, Pinizotto (no nhl exp and a Capital castoff), Kassien, Gragnani, Bitz and Sturm(didn't he play for Sj and Wash?) is expecting the "Experience Factor" to have a greater effect than is realistic. To be fair Pahlson was a move in the right direction, but John Madden was available last summer and even when the Booth deal was made.

[Baggins]

Posted Yesterday, 05:56 AM

View Post Baggins, on 02 May 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

I don't recall him(Gillis) questioning the Sedins character at all.

***********************************************************************************

Two months ago, at his first press conference in charge of the Canucks, Gillis offered only a tepid endorsement of Daniel and Henrik and said:

"I don't think the group of forwards right now are ready to compete. I don't know if they [the Sedins] are players the team will be built around moving forward."

http://canucks.nhl.c...ge.htm?id=39651

[nuck nit]

Yeah,lawyers tend to talk out both sides of their orifices.

[Baggins]

Yeah,lawyers tend to talk out both sides of their orifices.

[nuck nit]

Gillis takes five months to figure out he may have two Art Ross' and a Hart winner.

I guess Hodgson shouldn't feel so bad.

Meet the boss: Sedins, Gillis to talk

Nearly five months after hearing that their new general manager apparently had doubts about their leadership and future with the Vancouver Canucks, Daniel and Henrik Sedin will finally meet Mike Gillis next week at a meeting to clarify their standing.

By Vancouver Sun September 5, 2008

Nearly five months after hearing that their new general manager apparently had doubts about their leadership and future with the Vancouver Canucks, Daniel and Henrik Sedin will finally meet Mike Gillis next week at a meeting to clarify their standing.

The Wednesday summit, which will include player agent J.P. Barry and assistant general manager Laurence Gilman, wasn't quite the extraordinary meeting with management the Sedins expected when last season ended.

Barry and former general manager Dave Nonis had planned to travel together to Sweden and sign the Sedins to long-term extensions -- likely for less than market value, a concession the twins were willing to accept for the Canucks' loyalty and the chance to keep playing together in the National Hockey League.

But owner Francesco Aquilini fired Nonis in April and hired Gillis, who said in his first press conference: "I don't think the group of forwards right now are ready to compete. I don't know if they [the Sedins] are players the team will be built around moving forward."

Only two months later — and after the twins' names were splashed across newspapers on two continents in speculative trade reports — Gillis said he hoped to re-sign the 27 year olds, who are eligible for unrestricted free agency next July.

Barry, however, has declined Gillis's request to open contract negotiations.

Understandably, he and his clients are unsure how the players fit the Canucks' plans.

"It wasn't my intention to disparage their ability," Gillis said.

"When I was asked that question [about the Sedins], I answered in the context of players going into the last year of their contract. I can't build around players I might not have for more than a year.

"I tried to correct that because it did come out the wrong way. It was my fault."

Gillis said he clarified his position in a conversation with Barry, but did not call Daniel and Henrik in Sweden.

When they meet next week, it will be the first time the Sedins and the new general manager have spoken.

"It was a little bit of a surprise to us," Henrik Sedin said of Gillis' remarks. "But we can't really say anything until we talk to him about it and what he's thinking. It's more disappointing than frustrating. But we've been used to it from Day 1."

Except for a one-season reprieve -- 2006-07, when the Canucks made the playoffs -- the Sedins have been maligned since they entered the NHL. But the criticism usually permeates up from the media, not spill down from the general manager's office.

"First of all, we're used to it, so it doesn't really bother us," Daniel said. "Maybe it's a good thing for us; it made us work hard over the summer. I think it probably entered our mind that a trade was a possibility, but it's not our choice.

"We knew that Dave and J.P. were talking and this is where we wanted to be. We've always loved the city. It doesn't matter how tough the fans and media are, our goal was always to stay and finish our careers here. When Dave got fired, we knew maybe that wouldn't happen."

Of the scuttled trip to Sweden with Nonis and the former GM's plan to re-sign the Sedins, Barry said Friday only: "There was no question that was Dave's intention."

Barry said he counselled Daniel and Henrik to be patient, explaining that the Canucks' new management team needed time to review the roster and plot a course. That's partly why, Barry said, he has held off negotiations on extensions for Daniel and Henrik.

Daniel, his wife and children returned to Vancouver this week from the Ornskoldsvik. Henrik and his family arrive on Monday.

The Sedins are as accustomed to criticism, most of it unfair, as they are to rain in Vancouver.

Almost since the day they were drafted second and third overall in 1999, they've been accused or being too slow, too passive, too weak, too predictable or too dull.

The most common complaint about them now is "they're not first-line players." You can't listen to talk radio for more than 90 seconds without hearing it.

It's a breezy, flippant complaint to make. Without adjectives, it's also unfounded.

You can argue Daniel and Henrik aren't "dominant" first-liners or "dynamic" first-liners or "intimidating" first-liners. You might even claim they're not "good enough" first-liners, but you must have awfully high standards because by any statistical measure, Daniel and Henrik are elite forwards.

In the last two seasons, Daniel has 158 points and Henrik 157. Mats Sundin, who has left Gillis hanging on a two-year, $20-million offer and whose only contract right now is with an online poker service, has 154 points the last two seasons.

Only 18 players have outscored the Sedins. There are 30 NHL first lines -- by definition, 90 first-line players. So the twins not only score like first-line players, but are among the better ones in the league.

Barry said it's "absolutely ridiculous" some people still don't think Daniel and Henrik are worthy of their roles.

"All you have to do is pull up the stats from the last three years," he said. "They could play on the first line on 20 teams out of 30 in the league."

Gillis said it would be unfair for him to say in the media what he wants to tell the Sedins next week, but his acquisition of rugged winger Steve Bernier to play with Daniel and Henrik is evidence of his regard for the twins.

"One of the key focuses for us was to get a player we felt would complement them," Gillis said. "We actively went out and got Steve because we feel he could be a complementary player for them. So that's an indication what I think of them."

The most sensible argument against the twins is that for the Canucks to change their identity, they may need to change their best players. But from here, it looks like the Canucks need the Sedins more than the twins need them.

It will be interesting to see if they are as willing to give Gillis a discount as they were Nonis. Assuming Gillis still wants to re-sign them and the Sedins still want to stay after Wednesday's summit.

"We're not players that are going to look for the biggest deal, the last few dollars," Henrik said. "We want to be here. [but] there are new people coming in and we don't know what they feel the future is for the team. Vancouver is where we want to play; that's where we see our future. But it's not up to us."

imacintyre@vancouversun.com

[Danthecanucksfan]

2 Presidents Trophies, 2 Art Ross winners, and game 7 of the SCF say it all.

Also, the Sundin deal was 8.6 million, we had the cap space, why not use it? Kesler-Sundin-Demitra made Kesler in to the player he is today.

[VANFAN101]

Steve Bernier trade? Trading an extra 3rd rounder and a 2nd rounder for a guy who just came off 9 point in 17 game finish with the Sabres, was a recent 1st round pick and looked (at the time) to be EVERYTHING the Sedins needed. Unfortunately, two things happened:

1. The Sedins & Steve didn't really click. (How the f*ck can you blame that on Gillis?) Every scout/analyst was saying the Sedins needed a right-handed big body who would go to the net a la Anson Carter to take their game to an elite level.

2. The Blues countered GMMG's move of offersheeting Backes and ruined the contract negotations.

Mats Sundin? Okay. First off, he never even signed for 10 million. He signed for 8.6 million. The bigger contract offer got Mats' attention, but clearly you or I have no idea how negotiations actually went down. The Sedins & Kesler ALL credit Sundin for helping them raise their game to the next level. Kesler's offensive breakout came when he was part of the RPM line (36 points in 41 games), who knows what would have happened without that mentorship? Nevermind the fact the Canucks had some serious cap space to burn regardless.

He offered Ehrhoff a contract. Ehrhoff rejected it. Signing Ehrhoff to the stupid contract Buffalo offered him would have definitely sent the wrong message to players like Hamhuis and Bieksa who are much more important to the team.

Torres went 22 games once without scoring a goal, was the picture of inconsistency and asked for a multi-year contract with almost double the dollar term. F*ck Torres.

He never signed Fedoruk, Nolan or Begin. Fedoruk was mostly offered the tryout because he went through a similar tough time as Rick Rypien. If anything GMMG deserves a LOT of respect for trying to help a guy get back on track. 29 other teams didn't even try.

Pinner was useless because he was injured. Marco Sturm brought in David Booth. Bitz was injured most of the year and was signed as a 13th forward... Mancari was a huge help for the Wolves. Guess what? The AHL exists even if you don't watch it.

Negotiations didn't take a day for the Sedins. It just so happened that on the last day he had to grasp at the last straw. He got them. Who cares about anything else?

I don't know how many times the Ballard trade has to be explained. The Canucks had no left-sided defenseman to fill the hole where Hamhuis eventually got signed to play. Bernier was a cap dump. Grabner had no role on the team. If the Canucks hadn't traded for Ballard, Emerson Etem was NOT going to play top-4 defensive minutes. There weren't many good defenseman available. Luckily, GMMG managed to get Hamhuis and all would have been well. Can he tell the future? Probably not. Edit: Etem is being compared to Crosby? By who exactly?

Hodgson wasn't better than Kesler. He was put in easier situations. His agent went to the coach and asked for more minutes. You don't need that drama in the lockerroom. No player is more important than the team, just ask David Poile who has been a GM for 30 years..

GMMG didn't treat Linden like crap? Do you not remember retirement night? AV underused Linden, but Linden credits AV as a great coach. So your point is moot. Linden doesn't work in management because he is heavily into real estate.

I am sure GMMG was unaware of Frost's disturbing antics.

Then Bowman should send one to Tallon & Burke should send one to Coates.

The truth is, neither Nonis nor Burke could get the Canucks past the 2nd round with that core. Heck, Nonis could hardly make the playoffs. GMMG took the extra steps in signing good role players (not Isbisters and Ritchies) and hiring better staff (Dave Gagner) as well as unorthodox things like sleep doctors because of the travel in Vancouver.

[Real deal - Stan Smyl]

Gillis has built the ultimate prez trophy team. Well done.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

Emerson Etem is not a defensman...

[TOMapleLaughs]

More.

Yup, there are tons of old, redundant Gillis threads, Gradin.

[gradin123]

More.

Yup, there are tons of old, redundant Gillis threads, Gradin.

[goalie13]

Old. Exactly. Where are the current ones. No topic with the word Gillis in the thread begun since April 5th has been allowed to remain.

[ALTtimegreat]

Gillis take AV with you and stop ruining this team.