Mutiny fear in Israeli army as religious Zionists gain influence

[Buddhas Hand]

/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=10785034">Drybone, on 15 July 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Its just you. Riddled with personal insults to boot. What is wrong with you people ? Do you always have to cut people down . Do you even read the rules?

This is a blatant personal attack.

Explain it to the mods

[Sharpshooter]

Best PM i ever received:

I had to report you to the moderators. Dont tell me I didnt try my hardest with you.

I dont know what your story is but you seem intelligent . However, intelligent people arent bitter nor do they need to wield childish insults.

and the bottom line is I dont like you very much so that about sums it up.

[Red Light Racicot]

Good point. I believe this very thing. All we can do is try to stay positive .

[Heretic]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Still prepared? They've already done it, not entirely but the majority, and they're slowly stealing more land every day.

Your argument for wanting to know the current governments point of view makes zero sense. That's like asking a Christian if their view on Jesus' resurrection has changed, because well you know, it's been like 2000 years man. The current PM is a Zion, his father was one as well, as was his father. Ben-Gurion's description of the matter is the same it has been and the same it always will be.

Zionism is based on the religious belief that the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael) belongs to them because it says so in scripture. Based on those scriptures, this is the map that results.

This is almost the entirety of Palestine and even extends to some neighbouring countries. They want it all. And my "objective" source is the Bible. Which I believe is the exact opposite of objective, but try telling that to them, or even you from the sounds of things.

[Heretic]

I mean seriously... go watch some Barney or Sesame Street or something.

[Drybone]

I am reporting personal attacks to the mods from now on. I am not going to give into hate nor derail myself from the topic at hand to bother . You guys can deal with them.

Lets have an adult conversation. Free of hyper bias. Willingness to see fact over pre determined ideolgoy. Willingness to see both sides of the issue before making any determination at all.

Can we do this without the ranting and name calling? Arent we all adults here? It makes for a way better conversation. There are board rules regarding personal attacks for a reason. Trolling and derailing threads. Stop the personal smears.

I say lets remain the positive and have a great debate.

Here is an article written by a Jew who is not a Zionist. He claims quite clearly Zionism is dangerous, ignorant and self defeating. He believes Jews are not a race unto themselves.

http://www.jewsnotzi...ncejudzion.html

i was always under the impression Zionists were nationalists, but not if taken to an extreme. Almost like a manifest destiny of some kind that is not fair to the Palestinians. On the surface of it, its offensive as bible thumpers crusading through your town to convert one and all.

This simply leads me to assert that its so profane it might be biased to an extreme simply to create angst against them in the first place. In other words its far easier to hate the Catholic Church if priests are molesting as opposed to hating them because the Church helps the poor and needy.

So it could simply be 'negative attacks' used by pro Palestinians to pick out the bad apples of the Jews, label them hard core Zionists who want to wipe the Palestinians out and try to paint everyone in Israel with that broad brush. The temptation is certainly there.

I found this article about the plight of the Palestinians :

http://en.wikipedia....lestinian_state

This article sheds lights on the plight of both the Jews and Palestinians that has raged on since the artificial creation of Israel in 1947. Its a never ending situation in my opinion.

Here is a pro Israel anti Palestinian point of view:

http://www.israelnat...icle.aspx/11869

And predictably, what we see here is the cry that if they created the Palestinian state , they would try to take over all of Israel and destroy them .This is virtually the same finger pointing the Palestinians claim.

A commonly blasted talking point from many in the region and is a center piece of foreign policy by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad So what we have is now each side using ultra polarized viewpoints as in to suggest in the end nobody is right or wrong.

But that does not solve the issue. The issue is that Israel is there and its almost 70 years later. They have the right to be there now. So they are going to have to put down these issues and learn to get along. Otherwise we can expect more finger pointing, name calling and biased rhetoric that people are more than willing to accept on both sides.

[Drybone]

[sarcasm]

Or we can make helpful posts like this?

[/sarcasm]

[Bertuzzi Babe]

Best PM i ever received:

Awesome.

[Sharpshooter]

You got some of those too, did you? You should see mine! All 8 of them.

[Special Ed]

Anyways, not sure of how much more juice we can get from this rind.

[Heretic]

Best PM i ever received:

Awesome.

[Sharpshooter]

That was a PM that you made public - wow...

Back on topic...

What's wrong with this conflict (and the world) is relationships.

That is, people are having trouble with relationships - we are built for relationships - it's in our nature.

7 billion people on this planet - we need to get along with each other.

We need to drop the prejudice and hurtful attitudes towards each other.

We are all the same.

We are human beings.

[Drybone]

I'm sure there will crates of juice still to be had from other rinds. Specially from the Israeli/Palestine/Muslim/Zionist topics, as clearly demonstrated already by the CDC polical debate team.

[Sharpshooter]

I disagree. It gets old really quickly. Why? I dont need to work out my personal issues through fighting with others. So to me its about the facts.

And the facts are old weathered RHETORIC on both sides that hasn't changed much in 70 years and isn't likely to change now.

While its ok to discuss once or twice, harping on it accomplishes nothing.

My hope is they find a solution one day. I guarantee you it aint coming from the Canucks board.

[taxi]

Lol at this topic. Do you guys really think you can generalize an entire people like this. Jewish Israelis have moved to Israel for many reasons, including:

1) To escape persecution in nearby arab countries after the breakup of the Ottoman empire.

2) To attain self-determination. Being a minority sucks.

3) Religion.

4) Some simply had nowhere to go following WWII.

5) To connect and strengthen their Jewish roots and tradition.

6) Economic reasons.

7) To avoid assimilation.

When zionism began to gain momentum again in the 1800s, these European zionists were mostly non-religious Jews who founded the movement as a reaction to growing anti-semitism. Many of the early zionists were socialist revolutionaries who rejected religion. The idea that you can characterise all Jewish Israelis as religious nuts is ridiculous.

[Sharpshooter]

Lol at this topic. Do you guys really think you can generalize an entire people like this. Jewish Israelis have moved to Israel for many reasons, including:

1) To escape persecution in nearby arab countries after the breakup of the Ottoman empire.

2) To attain self-determination. Being a minority sucks.

3) Religion.

4) Some simply had nowhere to go following WWII.

5) To connect and strengthen their Jewish roots and tradition.

6) Economic reasons.

7) To avoid assimilation.

When zionism began to gain momentum again in the 1800s, these European zionists were mostly non-religious Jews who founded the movement as a reaction to growing anti-semitism. Many of the early zionists were socialist revolutionaries who rejected religion. The idea that you can characterise all Jewish Israelis as religious nuts is ridiculous.

[Drybone]

Lol at this topic. Do you guys really think you can generalize an entire people like this. Jewish Israelis have moved to Israel for many reasons, including:

1) To escape persecution in nearby arab countries after the breakup of the Ottoman empire.

2) To attain self-determination. Being a minority sucks.

3) Religion.

4) Some simply had nowhere to go following WWII.

5) To connect and strengthen their Jewish roots and tradition.

6) Economic reasons.

7) To avoid assimilation.

When zionism began to gain momentum again in the 1800s, these European zionists were mostly non-religious Jews who founded the movement as a reaction to growing anti-semitism. Many of the early zionists were socialist revolutionaries who rejected religion. The idea that you can characterise all Jewish Israelis as religious nuts is ridiculous.

[Jägermeister]

Lol at this topic. Do you guys really think you can generalize an entire people like this. Jewish Israelis have moved to Israel for many reasons, including:

1) To escape persecution in nearby arab countries after the breakup of the Ottoman empire.

2) To attain self-determination. Being a minority sucks.

3) Religion.

4) Some simply had nowhere to go following WWII.

5) To connect and strengthen their Jewish roots and tradition.

6) Economic reasons.

7) To avoid assimilation.

When zionism began to gain momentum again in the 1800s, these European zionists were mostly non-religious Jews who founded the movement as a reaction to growing anti-semitism. Many of the early zionists were socialist revolutionaries who rejected religion. The idea that you can characterise all Jewish Israelis as religious nuts is ridiculous.

[Buddhas Hand]

I am reporting personal attacks to the mods from now on. I am not going to give into hate nor derail myself from the topic at hand to bother . You guys can deal with them.

Lets have an adult conversation. Free of hyper bias. Willingness to see fact over pre determined ideolgoy. Willingness to see both sides of the issue before making any determination at all.

Can we do this without the ranting and name calling? Arent we all adults here? It makes for a way better conversation. There are board rules regarding personal attacks for a reason. Trolling and derailing threads. Stop the personal smears.

I say lets remain the positive and have a great debate.

Here is an article written by a Jew who is not a Zionist. He claims quite clearly Zionism is dangerous, ignorant and self defeating. He believes Jews are not a race unto themselves.

http://www.jewsnotzi...ncejudzion.html

i was always under the impression Zionists were nationalists, but not if taken to an extreme. Almost like a manifest destiny of some kind that is not fair to the Palestinians. On the surface of it, its offensive as bible thumpers crusading through your town to convert one and all.

This simply leads me to assert that its so profane it might be biased to an extreme simply to create angst against them in the first place. In other words its far easier to hate the Catholic Church if priests are molesting as opposed to hating them because the Church helps the poor and needy.

So it could simply be 'negative attacks' used by pro Palestinians to pick out the bad apples of the Jews, label them hard core Zionists who want to wipe the Palestinians out and try to paint everyone in Israel with that broad brush. The temptation is certainly there.

I found this article about the plight of the Palestinians :

http://en.wikipedia....lestinian_state

This article sheds lights on the plight of both the Jews and Palestinians that has raged on since the artificial creation of Israel in 1947. Its a never ending situation in my opinion.

Here is a pro Israel anti Palestinian point of view:

http://www.israelnat...icle.aspx/11869

And predictably, what we see here is the cry that if they created the Palestinian state , they would try to take over all of Israel and destroy them .This is virtually the same finger pointing the Palestinians claim.

A commonly blasted talking point from many in the region and is a center piece of foreign policy by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad So what we have is now each side using ultra polarized viewpoints as in to suggest in the end nobody is right or wrong.

But that does not solve the issue. The issue is that Israel is there and its almost 70 years later. They have the right to be there now. So they are going to have to put down these issues and learn to get along. Otherwise we can expect more finger pointing, name calling and biased rhetoric that people are more than willing to accept on both sides.

[dank.]

Yes, that is true - but what do the Palestines want? They want it all as well - that's why there's no peace - no one want to share....