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Mutiny fear in Israeli army as religious Zionists gain influence


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Wow - this thread isn't derailed - it's been blown up - how hypocritical to say the least.

Can we get back to topic or at least something relevant?

So, say we at CDC have absolute authority - what do we do about Jerusalem?

As far as Israel and Palestine that is.

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Wow - this thread isn't derailed - it's been blown up - how hypocritical to say the least.

Can we get back to topic or at least something relevant?

So, say we at CDC have absolute authority - what do we do about Jerusalem?

As far as Israel and Palestine that is.

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Israel slams door on UN Human Rights Council over settlement row

Israeli officials say a UN fact-finding mission “will not be allowed to enter” the country and its occupied territories. On Friday, the Geneva-based Human Rights Council appointed three officers to probe Israel’s West Bank settlement activity.

The UN's top human rights body has commissioned three jurists to find out how Israel's West Bank settlements affect “the civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of the Palestinian people.” The body called on Tel Aviv “not to obstruct the process of cooperation.

This resonated harshly with Israel, who took no time to dub the mission “biased and flawed,” vowing not to support the officials.

"The fact-finding mission will find no cooperation in Israel, and its members will not be allowed to enter Israel and the territories,” said Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor. “Its existence embodies the inherent distortion that typifies the UN Human Rights Council's treatment of Israel and the hijacking of the important human rights agenda by non-democratic countries.

Israel cut all ties with the council in March after the 47-nation body passed a resolution establishing the settlement probe. Israel accuses the commission of a “disproportionate focus” on Israel.

"The establishment of this mission is another blatant expression of the singling out of Israel in the UNHRC," a Foreign Ministry statement said on Friday.

Now that the team is to be prohibited from Israel, it will have to gain evidence from second-hand sources, like local media.

But even if the mission finds that the settlements violate human rights, any attempts to punish Israel will most probably be defused by the US, Israel’s key ally.

The UN considers Israeli settlements illegal under international law. The Human Rights Council says Israel's plans to build more houses in the West Bank and East Jerusalem undermine the peace process and pose a threat to the two-state solution.

The West Bank settlements are at the core of dispute between Israelis and Palestinians. Some 500,000 Israelis and 2.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, a territory that Israel expropriated from Jordan in 1967. Palestinians claim the West Bank is part of their future state, and object to any settlements there.

Israel cites historical and biblical links to the West Bank, saying the status of the settlements should be decided in peace negotiations.

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Wow - this thread isn't derailed - it's been blown up - how hypocritical to say the least.

Can we get back to topic or at least something relevant?

So, say we at CDC have absolute authority - what do we do about Jerusalem?

As far as Israel and Palestine that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Israeli, Palestinian kids find peace through soccer

Hapoel Tel Aviv Educational Enterprise brings Israeli and Palestinian children together to play soccer, get to know each other and learn tolerance and respect towards one another

Josh Lichtenstein

Published: 04.02.09, 08:18 / Israel Culture

On Tuesday, Hapoel Tel Aviv Educational Enterprise brought together Palestinian and Israeli children to play a soccer tournament at the club's training complex in Holon. The tournament brought together children ages 7-14 in the hope of developing mutual understanding.

Most Israeli and Palestinian children never interact with one another. Organizers believe that by giving them a chance to play together, they will be less likely to develop stereotypes as adults. Through the game of soccer, young children are able to learn values of tolerance and respect for one another.

The event was attended by several players from Hapoel Tel Aviv, including the team's captain Walid Badir, Maaran Lala, Bibras Natkho, Omri Canada and Eden Ben Basat. It was a great thrill for the kids to spend an afternoon with professional athletes they admire. Following the tournament, the kids were taken on a cruise.


The kids with Hapoel Tel Aviv captain Walid Badir (Photo: Tahel Azulai)

One of the Palestinian children commented, “I hope I will meet Israeli kids and play with them, until now I thought everybody was the same, but after we started this activity I understand there are some Jewish kids that are different".

Walid Badir adde, "It's a great experience to see Arabs and Israelis playing together...it's a holy day for the children and the Israeli country. I hope in the future there will be real peace and we'll live together."

The Hapoel Tel Aviv Educational Enterprise is a non-profit organization that was founded 12 years ago. Since that time, over 25,000 Israeli and Palestinian children have been brought together to play soccer.

In recent years, soccer clubs have been founded in eight villages within the Palestinian territory. Over 400 kids have taken part in the soccer and educational activities conducted in these villages. All programs offered by Hapoel Tel Aviv Educational Enterprise, are free of charge. This gives all kids the opportunity to play soccer and get to know their neighbors.

Hopefully, graduates of this program will become the future leaders of a lasting Israeli-Palestinian peace.

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This is what an Agnostic says.

This post then goes on to put people of faith down -right after the suggestion there is no way to prove it or not.

Not very 'optimistic'

This post doesn't explain anything. Instead of putting peoples beliefs down, how about instead you espouse the joys of atheism. Tell us why its so great to be an Atheist.

You are supposed to be an 'optimist' right?

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Agnosticism certainly can be a rejection of tangible man-made religions, as they don't provide any non-fictional answers to the "creator" question. Hell, outside of man-made religions I've found no tangible way to possibly test to affirm or deny a creator. It's well within the realm of agnosticism to vehemently reject/oppose/castigate/trash religion. What's not in the realm is making any sort of absolute conclusion of confirmation or denial of the overall concept of a creator/creators that religion or atheism address. That's all.

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I disagree. Agnostics feel absolutely no need to TRASH religion or faiths in God in any way. They dont care about the issue .They find no value in negativity nor any need

Atheists say there is no God. Hiding behind this .000000000000000000001 % allowance that you cant prove it , but 99.999 % swear up and down God doesnt exist and rip apart anyone who does is comedy.

1)Either you have faith in a higher diety, Theist.

2)Or you dont honestly know so you cant point the finger either way and feel no need to point the finger at anyone. Agnostic

3)Or you state there is no God. Atheist.

Atheists trying to hide out as Agnostics is nonsense. We go back to the 'everyone fits under the atheist tent rule...........a rule made my atheists of course.

Instead of putting others down, tell us in a positive way how great it is to be and Atheist - without putting others down.

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No, no, no.

You realize the argument put forth for a deity and certainly many other assertions for particularly the Christian and Muslim religions are tangible ones right? Their deity is not in the abstract any less than Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny or Greek/Roman Mythological gods.. so what purpose you have comparing to the non-abstract tangible evidence offered up by religious texts to the abstract concept of a deity outside of these religions.. I have no idea, but I can say you are way lost and should have stuck with not caring. According to your logic if there was ever offered up any evidence or proof you'd stick to "I don't know", that's not agnosticism, that's wilful ignorance.

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Your post is a non starter. It is negative, biased and non provable. Riddled with personal attacks against people of faith.

My point is Atheists cannot survive without the mudslinging of negative attacks. You are the 20th guy to prove this. An agnostic would find no need to put anyone down or JUDGE anyone.

Is this an argument you would put up in court as 'evidence' in your 'judgement' ?

Judge : lets hear your case against God

'zaibatsu' : Cause its like believing in the easter bunny

Judge: What?

'zaibatsu' : we got non abstract tangible evidence

Judge : wow. After 5,000 years and billions trying to end this debate you finally have concrete evidence. Show me

zaibatsu : Well there technically isnt any evidence God doesnt exist but I damn well know he doesnt !!!!!

Judge : How?

'zaibatsu' : Here are the secular 'sources' based entirely on the non spiritual.

Judge: these are all biased from a specific secular point of view. Its not 'evidence' . Evidence needs to be objective of any point of view.

'zaibatsu' Oh come on Judge............those clowns should stick to not knowing..........they are all WILLFULLY IGNORANT.

Judge: How does one prove that? Calling people names proves nothing. Anyways.......how about a theist stating the case.

Drybone: I believe God exists.

Judge : How do you know? this debate has been raging for 5000 years.

drybone: We believe from spiritual experiences there is a presence of a higher power.

Judge : Cant that be discarded as believing what you want to believe?

Drybone : Of course, but we believe it goes far deeper than that, and we physically feel better, emotionally feel better and respect the world around us better.

Judge: Nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy. But Religion has its bad apples

Drybone : Everyone has bad Apples. However, believing in god has little to do with the Dogma of religion. Its spiritual, not ritualistic. Many people believe in God , called Theist. but have nothing to do with organized religion in the slightest. Thats an optional choice.

Judge : But everything can become Ritualistic.

Drybone : Agreed. Atheism included.

Judge : But none of this is Proof there is a God

drybone : We dont need to prove to others there is or inst a God.We are content to believe it ourselves. People can decide on their own.

Judge Ok but the Atheist here says there is no God.

Drybone: but he has no right to put others down for believing either. Its negative and unhelpful

Judge : Hmm........well how bout 'zaibatsu' ..........how come you have to put others down who do not believe the same as you do? What right do you have to persecute them?

'zaibatsu' Your honor , they are ignorant . All the 'evidence' is with us. The SCIENCE

Drybone : We believe science is a never ending evolution. Egro what is considered TRUTH today , is replaced tomorrow. Aristotle believed the earth was flat and that was considered gospel truth for 2000 years. All of it based on observable evidence.We of faith accept the theory there is a HUGE 99% universe of truth we dont know yet.

Judge : Fair enough , then how is your faith 'truth'

Drybone; Its based in spiritual principals that have so far been universally sound through the ages. Science changes .

Judge : In other words its a spiritual matter , not a never ending evolving fact based matter like science is.

Drybone : Exactly

Judge Ok. Here the ruling. Neither can prove there is a God or not but here is the difference. The Theists seems quite content with his beliefs, People have the right to believe what they want to believe without fear of persecution.

The Atheist is able to believe what he wants but is fully concerned with pointing the finger at the Theist and ripping them apart in a negative way . This accomplishes nothing.


Judge: I havent heard from you Agnostic. Come say your piece.

Agnostic. No thanks your honor. I dont care. :frantic:

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