Baggins Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Baggins hes only 21 years old . Lets let the kid develop. Wait until hes 25 before we judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpush Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's not like these are terrible defensively, Booth, Kassian and whoever else are good enough defensively to play a regular shift, top 6 of wherever there are effective as players. Players in the NHL are good enough defensively to play a regular shift like anyone, or else they wouldn't be at this level, the only expections are guys like Alex Semin who have talent that is far superior to alot of players. As for Kassian he had a good game agianst Buffalo when he got some 2nd line time, he scored, he was good on the forecheck, had a good game. Then the next game he was back on the 4th line and Raymond was back on the 2nd for whichever reason and I was puzzled by the move. Raymond on the other hand isn't good enough to play in the top 6 the way he has been playing and he has been given endless opportunities when players are playing better than him and deserve it more, if he is so good defensively then I have no problem with him being on the 4th line and contributing that way but he can't play on the 2nd and Higgins & Hansen are great on the 3rd line. And really if we are basing ice time on defensive play then Manny Malhotra should be playing 20 minutes a night, not trying to insult him because I am a fan of his but I'm using that as an example to say there is more than just defensive play, and Kassian and Booth are good enough defensively that they should be put in the best spot to maximize the other parts of there game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 What? You think I'm writing Kassian off? Not at all. I just think AV's development system works. Teach them all they have to play solid both directions and use ice time as the penalty/reward. Raymonds defensive play took a huge leap over two seasons. Kassian has plenty of time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 And guess who the coach was of the Moose when they were breaking into the NHL. AV expects his players to be responsible and has shown that he rewards guys he trusts in the defensive zone. Glass, Tavev, Hansen, Raymond, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa are all players who have been developed by AV. Hopefully Schroeder, Kassian, Jensen , Gaunce etc will be the next group but no guarantees. Kassian's biggest issue last year was his conditioning IMO and it seems like he has been working on it this off season. Worst case scenario is he spends a bit more time in the AHL learning AV's style of play from Arniel in Chicago. Like many have said here, he is only 21 so why follow that up by saying rush him into a top 6 role in the NHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If you are giving up two quality chances for every one you get should you get more ice time? As I said, AV rewards the two way game. Always has. Raymond was given a lot of chances. But he wasn't on the 2nd line the whole season was he. He got moved to the 3rd and 4th line. People never seem to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Beautifully said. Kass is a top end prospect and no need for him to follow others footsteps; he can simply make his own path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpush Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ya AV was the coach of the Moose the year both Burrows and Kesler played on the Canucks roster with Marc Crawford as the coach, so technically they weren't coached by AV in the Moose because they were on the Canucks roster. AV only coached the Moose for 1 year the year both Burrows and Kesler played with Vancouver, ok yes Burrows did play 33 games for AV in the Moose before he joined the Canucks, I'll give you that. Anyways it's obvious AV likes players who play the game like how he did when he played in the NHL, AV was a defenseman, who played a tough guy type of roll, and to why he likes the grinders and defensive liability players, because he grew up playing as a defenseman. This is one of the reason why I'm not a fan of AV, he coaches the game the way he played a defensive minded player/coach who has no offensive talent, and it's frustrating when you can see how much offensive talent this team has had for years, but because the coach isn't offensive minded, he'd rather still play the more defensive game, it's just boring and a waste I think. People will try and still argue the fact the Canucks had the best goals scored for blah blah blah, the fact that they managed a lot of that from their PP and why they were first in the league on the PP, but when it comes to 5 on 5 this team is just plain boring, and that's because they don't have a coach with an offensive mind set. The only time the game gets exciting when it's 5 on 5 is when the Sedins come on, because you know they don't care they want to score and they have the talent to play in the opposing teams zone to try and generate offense. Sedins are so talented they can do this on their own, the rest of the team isn't as talented and to why coaching normally helps them out for this, but with our coach that can't happen, when all he cares about coaching is defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpush Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I do see some set lines, this is what I see in the top 9. Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Booth - Kesler - ? Higgins - ? - Hansen So we kind of have a log jam of players that could fill those spots, Raymond, Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Lappierre, even Manny for the third line spot if he gets his game back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Fair enough I was thinking he was there in 04 but it was still Carlyle. I still feel he has done a good job at developing out players. I do disagree with the other statements. Sedin's are so successful because of the way AV uses them. They are always put into situations where they have best chance of producing ( offensive zone starts) and rarely have to take defensive zone starts. AV also tries to deploy them against the oppositions weakest D pairing whenever possible. When Kesler scored 40 goals and was dominating was because Malhotra's 3rd line was able to take the majority of defensive assignments and allow Kesler more offensive room. AV doesn't like this style because he played as a tough defenseman in the NHL, he uses it because its successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yes and that's where he should have been, but for some reason he always got put back on that 2nd line and I doubt he ever earned one of those chances. The thing MG seems to say is that the best players play, and that whoever is playing the best plays. Not you can play a larger role if you are completely out staging the veteran's, veteran's shouldn't have any advantage over younger players in that instance, if a younger player is playing better he should get that opportunity, and that's why the complaint on AV is that he doesn't give young players the chances they deserve I do see some set lines, this is what I see in the top 9. Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Booth - Kesler - ? Higgins - ? - Hansen So we kind of have a log jam of players that could fill those spots, Raymond, Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Lappierre, even Manny for the third line spot if he gets his game back. And I don't think Raymond fits in the line-up, he's either on the 2nd or the 4th, and if he can't play offensively the way he did that one year, then he should be on the 4th, which is a waste of him being there and it also takes that spot away from someone who fits that role better, which is why I think if he doesn't earn a top 6 role then we should move him, plus Kassian will be alot better and might be able to play there, plus all the unkowns with Doan and Luongo and maybe aqcuiring another forward (hopefully a center), but right now it seems like we might have too many top 9 wingers and it's not really a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gouda Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 not sure why some canuck FANS don't have respect for the guy, all i've heard from this offseason is he has been working extremely hard to make the lineup this year. The guy is 21 years old and has a lot of potential to be a great player in the NHL, and obviously he hasn't accomplished that much because he's so young, did hodgson accomplish more than him last year? I don't believe so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sthebest Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think kassian does deserve a little more time on the second line and first because the sedins wth the amount of skill and finesse they have will help his development a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sthebest Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 If he can get time with the sedins his development as a player would be amazing like that and the skill and passing around the sedins will help him be a good passer and a skilled guy. He has been working extremely hard losing 20 pounds of fat for his skating will be way better and people worry about that 20 pounds but av wouldn't want him to lose his style of play so for sure those 20 pounds of fat into muscle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 He's too young for the blues, he's still inside his first pair of shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 First thing I thought of before opening thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 You guys may be showing your age...then again I suppose I am as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovekevinbieksa Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 we gave up coho for him... he better play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Jensen doesn't have much of a shot, but I do think Ebbett will be one of the guys competing for the 3C position ( Lapierre, Malhotra, Ebbett, Schroeder in that order I think). I think its really depends on how AV is going to dictate ice time this year, if he wants a 3rd line for shutdown Lapierre most likely has the spot, if Kesler's line is going to be handling the top lines than Schroeder or Ebbett have a shot. I think Raymond makes the top 6 before Kassian to start the year just based off of Raymond being resigned, If he wasn't slotted in I don't think the Canucks resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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