Smashian Kassian Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Will be or is? If he IS he should be on the team. If he WILL BE he should be on the farm getting ice time until he IS. I get that most here have a chubby for prospects, but unless the prospect is a clear and certain upgarde on a veteran why would you move the veteran when the prospect can be a quality call up for depth? The more depth we have the better. As to Raymond I'll give him a pass for this past just as I gave Ballard a pass the year before due to his injuries. Raymonds 10/11 season was nowhere near as bad as most here made out. More a case of his not living up to the 60 point expectation most had set before the season started. His even strength production was about the same as the year everybody suddenly loved him. Despite have three injuries that affect shooting and passing. His production drop came on the PP which I fully expected. Raymond has a 25 goal, 50 point season in the NHL. Thus we know he's capable of it. I'm willing to go into 12/13 with an open mind towards Raymond as opposed to writing him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonedanielsedin Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 nice and sunny outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well if Kassian is as good as Gillis says he is then he will be, and he has been training hard, so he will be better, I don't see anyway he won't be better and he's NHL ready so he will only get better. Barring a trade or the dream of landing Doan, Kassian will probably be Raymond's biggest competition. As for Raymond I will give him a chance to start the season if he is here, but to me, now that we have seen his other seasons, that 25 goal year just seems like a career year and nothing more, and how can you argue, that's what it was. I think he has the skills to get back to 20-25 goals and 50 points but right now he is a consistent 10-15 goal guy at best. Hopefully he turns it around but if he doesn't fit on that 2nd line I don't see a place for him on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The season after his career year Raymond put up about the same points even strength as he did the year before. His production drop was on the PP but his 70 point center was replaced by a 30 point center and he had 33% less PP time. His PP production was virtually guaranteed to drop given those circumstances. His 10/11 season was nowhere near as a bad as people made out. It was only a bad year if you look at the point total while completely ignoring the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 This is the exact reason why I didn't want AV back next year. Because he doesn't let his young guys play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshinefe Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Go back to whatever lame board you came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The season after his career year Raymond put up about the same points even strength as he did the year before. His production drop was on the PP but his 70 point center was replaced by a 30 point center and he had 33% less PP time. His PP production was virtually guaranteed to drop given those circumstances. His 10/11 season was nowhere near as a bad as people made out. It was only a bad year if you look at the point total while completely ignoring the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Wait what?? Kesler had 70 points both years (09-10 and 10-11) and he was on his wing both years, you'd think with Kesler's breakout year that Raymond would have benefited a little more, and just because he wasn't put on the PP with Kes or the Sedin's isn't much of an excuse for me, he isn't good enough to get PP time with them, he has to earn it. And your right he might not be as bad as people said but he still wasn't as good as the year before. Apparently Ballard had a bad year too, people tend to rag on our players for previous years when they were fine but still, Raymond needs to secure a top 6 spot or else I don't see anywhere for him on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Why should he when we have more experienced veteran depth? Perhaps if those young players actually earned a spot with consistent play moreso than what the other veteran players already contribute, then maybe they'd actually earn more ice time. Starting Kassian on the 4th line and letting him earn his ice time is the way to go, and exactly what AV's been doing with him. I don't see a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 An offensively talented center was replaced with an offensively challenged center is the point. The reduced PP time had nothing to do with "earning it". The second unit didn't get on the ice as often as the 1st unit was so efficient. Call it excuses if you want but the fact is who you play with has an effect and Malhotra isn't going to help anybody much offensively. He's never hit 15 goals or 40 points in his career. And here's a nugget for you: Kesler had 30 pp points in 10/11 with the Sedins compared to 26 with Raymond in 09/10. Putting Kesler on the 1st unit killed the second unit..Not to mention Samuelsson also being moved to the point on the 1st unit when Edler went down for the season. All the eggs were in the 1st unit basket. Raymond got Malhotra and the revolving door leftovers on the other wing. A drop in 2nd unit pp production was a given as far as I'm concerned. Maybe you didn't notice that year but Raymond also had three injuries to contend with. Sprained wrist, broken thumb, and a shoulder injury. All of which affect shooting/passing. But that's just an excuse as well I suppose. Honestly, I complained less about Raymond that year than I did during his career year. So is Kesler on his way out as well after a 24 point drop from the previous year or does actually get to use injuries as an excuse? His pp production even dropped to 19 points despite having the Sedins to help him. Does he need to go as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down. Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond. Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying. I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Perhaps, but I feel the drop off in his play can also be blamed on how his shot was so mediocre. His skating, although fast, seems to have balance issues (at an NHL level? really?) How come he never does what makes him truly effective and drive it to the net anymore? I think AV should award him ice time when he improves these things. I question whether AV knows what he is doing if he thinks he is awarding good play with ice time in Raymond's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down. Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond. Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying. I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linden53 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Kassian has got a long way to go before he's a top six player. He has all the tools the size and by all accounts the desire, however he needs time to develop and understand many things yet. He's young, I am not saying he's never going to get there, I am saying hes a big body power forward and they ALWAYS take time to develop. He needs to put is time in on the bottom 6 or in the AHL to learn how to be effective, when the right time to drop the gloves is, and how to use his body to create and generate lots of scoring opportunites. He will get there, as long as he puts the work in and doesn't think short term only like most of the "geniuses" on here do. Kassian will be fine, he will get the minutes he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linden53 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Shirokov plays a good game, scores. Get's sent down. Kassian gets 2nd line time, plays well, scores. Get's put back on the 4th the following game in place of Raymond. Then there is how great Hodgson was for a time (and I'm over him) but I'm just saying. I understand playing the veteran's but if a younger guy is playing better you give him the ice time, Ice time isn't determined by experiance and how old you are, it should be determined by how good you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrows91 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I believe Hodgson accomplished a whole lot more last year! He already had the respect before he left. big Z-bo hasnt done squat! although i really do hope he turns out to be something! but i'm not holding my breath. this team really needs something for a playoff payoff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Actually Shirokov quit back checking after he scored. I remember that game. He got benched in the 3rd as well. Scoring a goal doesn't automatically mean p[laying well. I don't think Kassians fitness level was where it needed to be. When he got ice time he looked kind of like Sundin when he first joined the team....wheezing his way off the ice. Kassian just didn't seem to look as good as games went on. That's why I'm pretty happy to hear about his dropping some weight this summer and working out hard. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do. Although unlike most here, it would bother me to have him playing bigger minutes on the farm team if it means extra depth. At 21 it certainly won't hurt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gouda Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hodgson is a year older than Kassian, I was talking about the year Hodgson had when he was Kassian's age... Hodgson: 8 GP - 2 Points Kassian: 44 GP - 10 Points they both weren't stellar at 21, so if Hodgson had accomplished so much in his year at 22 then why not give Kassian a chance? Multiply Hodgson's totals by 5 and it's 40 GP and 10 Points...not an extremely accurate assumption but very similar to what Kassian put up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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