General Hockey Questions

[Where's Wellwood]

On 5/30/2021 at 9:44 PM, lmm said:

I asked this in the Vegas/ Colo thread , but no answer

Reeves gets 2-2-5

is there a rule about whether the penalties are served 

2-2-5

or 5-2-2

or is it in the order they were called

 

I thought it would be 2-2-5, so the first penalty is over after 2 minutes

 

when Makar scored with 1:16 left, that wiped out the remaining time

was that a mistake?

game management?

or arbitrary?

 

I noticed Girard asking the Ref before the puck was dropped

I read on reddit that it was 5-2-2 but there was no source

[mll]

On 5/31/2021 at 6:44 AM, lmm said:

I asked this in the Vegas/ Colo thread , but no answer

Reeves gets 2-2-5

is there a rule about whether the penalties are served 

2-2-5

or 5-2-2

or is it in the order they were called

 

I thought it would be 2-2-5, so the first penalty is over after 2 minutes

 

when Makar scored with 1:16 left, that wiped out the remaining time

was that a mistake?

game management?

or arbitrary?

 

I noticed Girard asking the Ref before the puck was dropped

 

From the rule book:

20.1 Major Penalty - For the first major penalty in any one game, the offender, except the goalkeeper, shall be ruled off the ice for five (5) minutes during which time no substitute shall be permitted.

When one player receives a major penalty and a minor penalty at the same time, the major penalty shall be served first by the penalized player (or substitute for the goalkeeper), except under Rule 19.2 where coincidental major penalties are in effect, in which case the minor penalty will be recorded and served first.

 

[lmm]

2 hours ago, mll said:

 

From the rule book:

20.1 Major Penalty - For the first major penalty in any one game, the offender, except the goalkeeper, shall be ruled off the ice for five (5) minutes during which time no substitute shall be permitted.

When one player receives a major penalty and a minor penalty at the same time, the major penalty shall be served first by the penalized player (or substitute for the goalkeeper), except under Rule 19.2 where coincidental major penalties are in effect, in which case the minor penalty will be recorded and served first.

 

thanks 

that clears that up

so the announcer was incorrect saying that they had made it into the major when 4:59 was left in the penalty

 

so, in that instance, had Colo scored with 4:59 left in the penalty

that would have been during the major and no time comes off the penalty clock

had they scored with 3:59 left the clock drops to 2:00 minutes left

[Kosatka]

Right now we can watch Hlinka/ Gretzky cup on YouTube , Slovakia : Sweden and there is 17y Elias Pettersson playing D for SWE, we better draft him next year :D

[Hairy Kneel]

What are the alternatives to the Offer Sheets? 

[MattJVD]

On 9/4/2021 at 3:54 PM, Hairy Kneel said:

What are the alternatives to the Offer Sheets? 

Ohh, good question. Longer ELCs with escalating salaries, then straight to UFA? Defined 2nd contract maximums in the CBA?

 

I'm just throwing things at the wall, it's a fun question.

[Hairy Kneel]

10 hours ago, MattJVD said:

Ohh, good question. Longer ELCs with escalating salaries, then straight to UFA? Defined 2nd contract maximums in the CBA?

 

I'm just throwing things at the wall, it's a fun question.

Yes, ELCs that cushion the difference for both parties. ie that reflect increased value of a young player by performance. Like a sort of ballon increase at the end maybe? Before rfa status? 

[IBatch]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:54 PM, Hairy Kneel said:

What are the alternatives to the Offer Sheets? 

 None.   Personally i think it's time that the league disposed of them entirely.   All it does is create contention amongst the other GMs.   Also feel that it's time to create new limits on both RFAs and UFA contract length.  The majority of the NHLPA actually suffers ... blue chip

guys don't but they aren't the majority.   The NHL and the NHLPA can't ice the best product and can't afford to pay escalating second contract money and UFAs that keep earning at the same time.   Right now 80% of the league is bumping up against the cap... a very small cushion for trades.    Covid didn't seem to matter to GMs they just keep spending regardless.   Going to be a tough time for both sides for awhile.   The system isn't quite broken yet but it's getting close....The middle class players take it the most.   Careers are shorter then they should be and guys take less then they should get to stay in the league, using AHLers to balance the books isn't great product wise...hope they can hash it out and make a better product.   

[Ghostsof1915]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

 None.   Personally i think it's time that the league disposed of them entirely.   All it does is create contention amongst the other GMs.   Also feel that it's time to create new limits on both RFAs and UFA contract length.  The majority of the NHLPA actually suffers ... blue chip

guys don't but they aren't the majority.   The NHL and the NHLPA can't ice the best product and can't afford to pay escalating second contract money and UFAs that keep earning at the same time.   Right now 80% of the league is bumping up against the cap... a very small cushion for trades.    Covid didn't seem to matter to GMs they just keep spending regardless.   Going to be a tough time for both sides for awhile.   The system isn't quite broken yet but it's getting close....The middle class players take it the most.   Careers are shorter then they should be and guys take less then they should get to stay in the league, using AHLers to balance the books isn't great product wise...hope they can hash it out and make a better product.   

Thank you. I totally agree. The NHLPA might not though. 

[MattJVD]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

 None.   Personally i think it's time that the league disposed of them entirely.   All it does is create contention amongst the other GMs.   Also feel that it's time to create new limits on both RFAs and UFA contract length.  The majority of the NHLPA actually suffers ... blue chip

guys don't but they aren't the majority.   The NHL and the NHLPA can't ice the best product and can't afford to pay escalating second contract money and UFAs that keep earning at the same time.   Right now 80% of the league is bumping up against the cap... a very small cushion for trades.    Covid didn't seem to matter to GMs they just keep spending regardless.   Going to be a tough time for both sides for awhile.   The system isn't quite broken yet but it's getting close....The middle class players take it the most.   Careers are shorter then they should be and guys take less then they should get to stay in the league, using AHLers to balance the books isn't great product wise...hope they can hash it out and make a better product.   

I think that was the question. Pretend offersheets are axed, what would you propose to change around the construction of RFA rights and/or ELCs?

[MattJVD]

15 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Yes, ELCs that cushion the difference for both parties. ie that reflect increased value of a young player by performance. Like a sort of ballon increase at the end maybe? Before rfa status? 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe raise the maximum salary for ELCs to 1.5 mil (still at 3 years) after 3 years the player can elect to extend the contract at the same salary for one year OR the team can elect to extend the contract for up to 3 years with salary increasing by 500k each year (2.5 mil AAV). Upon expiry of either option, the player is a UFA.

 

Alternatively, say any subsequent contract can not exceed 200% the AAV of the the highest previous contract. (Simplifying things to say ELCs are $1 million) pretty much all high-end RFAs would be locked up at $2 mil, $4 mil, and $8 mil in years 4, 5, and 6 respectively. UFA upon completion of their 6th year on an NHL contract.

 

And finally, ditch the hard cap and implement a progressive spending tax. Like the NBA

[Lafayettecrossbar]

Apologies if this question has been asked before - how much money, if any, does a player earn on a PTO? 

[mll]

59 minutes ago, Lafayettecrossbar said:

Apologies if this question has been asked before - how much money, if any, does a player earn on a PTO? 

There's no money earned but expenses are covered.  Here's the wording for a PTO contract from the CBA.

 

In consideration of the agreement by the Club to pay the reasonable round-trip travel expenses from his Address below (or whatever location the Player shall designate by notice in writing to the Club), to the Club’s Training Camp (or whatever location the Club shall designate by notice in writing to the Player), as well as accommodations, per diem and meals, the Player agrees to present himself, when called upon to do so, at any location designated by the Club, for the purposes of demonstrating his ability and qualifications as a hockey player.

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Does anyone else miss the shootout ? Before the new OT format,  there would be shootouts on the highlight reel all the time. They are more suspenseful that 3 on 3 OT and good for entertainment.

 

We should go back to the old format so we have some shootouts.

[Bruce Boudreau]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:18 PM, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Does anyone else miss the shootout ? Before the new OT format,  there would be shootouts on the highlight reel all the time. They are more suspenseful that 3 on 3 OT and good for entertainment.

 

We should go back to the old format so we have some shootouts.

Nah I love 3 on 3 much more of a team aspect.

 

Shootout is a skills competition that is not a fair way to decide an important game imo even though there have been some pretty epic shootout moments in the world juniors and Olympics and crazy rules where shooters can be repeated after the regular guys get their shot attempts.

 

3 on 3 hockey imo is a better alternative than a shootout.

 

I hate soccer shootouts bring back the golden goal!

 

The Canucks could have JT Miller with Garland and Hughes that would be a lethal trio to dominate time of possession.

 

Would love to see those 3 out there on a 3 on 3 shift.

 

 

 

 

[lmm]

Tony Tanti   Mark Messier    Stan Smyl

.Ted Taylor  .Brian Bradley   .Brock Boeser

Dave Dunn .Manny Malhotra .Tyler Toffoli

Len Lunde .  Craig Coxe      .Derek Dorsett

Jason Jaffrey .Rick Rypien   Steve Staios

Sergei Shirkorov.. Jusi Jokenen ..Byron Bitz

Marc Michaelis..................... Emerson Etem

 

Merik Malik Sami Salo

Mario Marois Adrian Accoin

Lars Lindgren ColinCampbell 

Andrew Alberts Pol Popiel

Mark Mancari Dale Dunbar

 

Alex Auld

George Gardner

Bruce Bullock

 

 

what did you do today?

[RubySausage]

Do NHL games have back up refs available if refs get covid, injured, or another cause for missing a game or remaining part of a game?

[LTC123]

What does JR do as PHO?   Is he the "big daddy" and everything goes through him?  Does he vet all decisions?  Does PA need JR's approval for all trades?   I'm just wondering what JR's job actually is....how much power over decisions does PA have?  

 

 

[alt kilgore]

Here's a random question,  brought on by too many years of Canuck Luck at the Draft.

 

Wouldn't it be fairer in the draft if there was a new formula for the second and third rounds at least?  That is, now when a team wins the lottery and picks first, they also win the lottery in every other round. ie. they get to pick first in the second round too, and then first in the third round, all the way down.  And conversely of course, on a luck starved team like ours, who usually move DOWN from even their allotted position, they are also in that lowered position for every other round too.

 

Many times the players in the bottom of the first round are not much better or removed from the top ones in second round.  To me I question why the lucky winner of the lottery, and even the other tank-happy teams bad enough to be in the top 5, should automatically give you dibs to the top picks of the second round. Its how Carolina can pick Svechnikov in the first, and then take Drury in the second, or how Dallas can pick Heiskanen in the first and Robertson is there for them in second.

 

There should be a new draw after the first round lottery draw, just between non playoff teams again, for position in the first 16 picks of the second round. Perhaps still using a formula of lottery odds, this time almost the opposite though, with the non playoff teams that picked closer to the bottom of the first, have a greater shot at a higher second.

 

Same in the third round applying the formula to the positions of how teams landed in the second round. After that, perhaps go back to the first round order, doesn't really matter as much by then.

 

This way the "winning" team at the lottery still gets their first overall pick, and the other barrel scrapers that also pick high do not change their order.  But at least the teams that did not have a good year, but still finished in a mid/lower draft position, at least have a better chance to find a good serviceable player with their second round pick.  (Ideally they'd get a mid range first but then a high second to even it out somewhat). This would not only promote parity, it would be one more thing to dissuade tanking.

 

A graph from a study between 2000 and 2009. Adding the second and third rounders together, they make up almost as many players who make it from the first round.

 

 

 

Pick positions for those 2nd and 3rd rounds would be determined at the same draft lottery day for first, so deals could still be made after that with that info in mind for GMs.  And think about how more exciting and unpredictable those rounds would be, and how trades would change based on that.

[Nucker 67]

New formula:

(well, IMO should be, maybe)

 

 

Years without a 1st OA = 1 lotto ball

 

e.g.

 

VAN - 52 years without a 1st OA = 52 lottery balls

NJ - 3 years without a 1st OA = 3 lottery balls

BUF - 1 year without a 1st OA = 1 lottery ball

 

This way, every team has a chance to get a 1st at some point, and if you get one, it might be a while before you get another.