inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 "It works better than doing nothing." Doing nothing and doing something that won't work are not the only two options!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 "It works better than doing nothing." Doing nothing and doing something that won't work are not the only two options!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 What won't work with my plan? What does work with yours? (Not that you have one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 So excuse me if I'd like to try something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Which would be.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 There are a number of options to look at. There's no smoking gun/easy to do answer though. Road pricing Regional tolls Some form of tax Congestion charges Limiting trucks/commercial to certain hours any combination of any of the above. The problem is translink, municipalities and regional districts are all children of the Province. They have to go through the province to get anything approved. But the province isn't willing to engage. So it's all kinda moot until they do. Meanwhile, they plow ahead contrary to what translink, municipalities and the region are advocating for by building/expanding highways. But doing nothing or just building more roads aren't real options. Especially with more and more information we're getting regarding lower volumes of traffic, higher gas prices, reduced gas consumption, parking rates downtown are dropping like crazy cause they can't fill them up, they can't fill them up because traffic into downtown is the same now as it was in the 1960's. Cycling mode share is up, the transit mode share is up, transit volumes are up. I mean what about any of this says build more roads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 That most people don't commute to Vancouver due to the city driving people/businesses out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I believe it was Ron that posted the link like a year ago showing something like 60% of commuting is inter-suburb and NOT Vancouver centric. Maybe he has the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 /index.php?app=forums&module=forums§ion=findpost&pid=10939103">J.R., on 12 October 2012 - 12:14 PM, said: That most people don't commute to Vancouver due to the city driving people/businesses out? Should I bother asking you to back up that claim with evidence or just assume you don't have it... Since you ignored the content of my post, here's an article for you to read if you choose: http://www.theglobea...article4550376/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 A rebuttal to the 'tomtom' measure of congestion. http://www.southfraser.net/2012/07/tomtom-congestion-index-useless-for.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Seriously? Look at any translink planning report. Greatest growth in travel and largest change in pattern is traffic having changed from going suburb to downtown to going suburb to suburb. That's why you see the single tunnel lane and the light on 91 northbound both backed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up on a daily basis, why the queenbourough south is backed up every morning (I drive by the queue on Stewardson all the time), and why the Port Mann is backed up westbound every afternoon. It's why 40% of Port Mann bridge traffic gets on one exit before crossing and gets off one exit after. It's why Burrard peninsula municipalities are clogged with commuters trying to cross over on side streets as it's the only way to get where they are going. Every road and every transit system is built to go downtown where the overwhelming majority of growth (still miniscule in the region though the effort downtown is decent) is residential. The overwhelming majority of residential, office, industrial, and commercial space is in the suburbs. You freaking know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Not the same study but I did find this with a quick google search that shows even greater numbers of inter-suburban commuters: http://vannstruth.com/2012/04/metro-vancouver-commuting-patterns/ Pretty clear a LOT of people are not commuting to Vancouver that don't already live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 There are a number of options to look at. There's no smoking gun/easy to do answer though. Road pricing Regional tolls Some form of tax Congestion charges Limiting trucks/commercial to certain hours any combination of any of the above. The problem is translink, municipalities and regional districts are all children of the Province. They have to go through the province to get anything approved. But the province isn't willing to engage. So it's all kinda moot until they do. Meanwhile, they plow ahead contrary to what translink, municipalities and the region are advocating for by building/expanding highways. But doing nothing or just building more roads aren't real options. Especially with more and more information we're getting regarding lower volumes of traffic, higher gas prices, reduced gas consumption, parking rates downtown are dropping like crazy cause they can't fill them up, they can't fill them up because traffic into downtown is the same now as it was in the 1960's. Cycling mode share is up, the transit mode share is up, transit volumes are up. I mean what about any of this says build more roads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Quickly booted? The surrey mayor is the most popular person in BC politically and she's advocating for region wide tolls. You seem stuck on this mind set that politicians are afraid to do anything, and so I wonder how anything would ever get done in your world? Anyway, like I said, this is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I didn't say I disagreed or don't think more inter community commuting is on the rise. But he said it is the majority (ignoring his stupid Vancouver is driving people out comment). So is it? Show me some stats. I commute from Vancouver to the suburbs every day and the line up on the Knight street bridge going into town is always really long... So does my story win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 \] Does it matter if it's a small majority or large minority? It's a LOT either way. Ask New West or North Delta how many suburb to suburb commuters there are! And no, your story doesn't win. How much you want to bet a lot of those people are going to Burnaby or the North shore! And it's not a stupid comment that Vancouver is driving people out. They might not think that they are but the high cost of parking, the incredible amount of congestion, the ridiculous cost of office or residential space and the very high taxes (all of which are partially or fully attributable to city policies) go directly into the business decisions that determine office locations just as much as they go into the personal decisions people make when they choose where to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Quickly booted? The surrey mayor is the most popular person in BC politically and she's advocating for region wide tolls. You seem stuck on this mind set that politicians are afraid to do anything, and so I wonder how anything would ever get done in your world? Anyway, like I said, this is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I don't know--and that's the point. Anecdotes don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's going nowhere because you refuse to use any common sense. Of course it's popular for Ms. Watts to support a region wide tolls. I love the idea of tolling north shore bridges to pay for improvements south of the Fraser. Stack up the congestion charges downtown and put in my express bus! Of course people in Surrey like that idea! They know they have to pay tolls anyways so why not drag everyone else along! Watch how well that would work out if she was saying the same thing from a provincial position though! I am sure you also noted what North Van had to say about here region wide tolling idea. If not, I can give you a hit - they were less than supportive....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I don't know--and that's the point. Anecdotes don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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