Smashian Kassian Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 That's also what BB thought. He made Grabo the highest paid player on the Leafs for that very reason. Yes he is better than Kessel and Lupul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bissonnette Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm sorry but you are not knowledgeable enough on the Leafs team. http://hfboards.hock...ad.php?t=896857 Grabo got 52% + of the vote for MVP, Kessel got ZERO , DP got less than 2%. You will not get Grabo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 .... I know your strong in your opinion that they won't trade him, but he isn't better than Lupul or Kessel (but Kessel especially) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Would a foundation of Lu and Raymond for Grabo and Lombardi work? If losing both Mikhail and Tyler Bozak is too much, then why not take a flyer (literally) on Matt Lombardi? If he's healthy he could be a decent 3rd line center but he'd definitely be a cap dump for Toronto, and like Raymond he's on the last year of his current contract so he could be a decent gamble to take and he may not be too much of a downgrade from Tyler for the role he would play on the 3rd line. Heck, if he rebounds maybe he could be brought back! Lu's salary is roughly equal to Mikhail's ($5.33 to $5.5 for Mikhail) Raymond's is $2.275, Lombardi is $3.5 combining the two, Vancouver only picks up a net increase in salaries of $1.4M which should not be too difficult to afford. What's more, Matt Lombardi's versatility is definitely greater than Raymond's if he can regain his old form: he brings speed, can score, can kill penalties, can play center or left wing and he actually uses his speed to attack the net unlike Mason. Twins - Burr Grabo - Kes - Booth Lombardi - Lapierre - Higgins Hansen - Malhotra - Kassian Lupul - J.V.R. - Kessel Mac - Bozak - Kulemin Raymond/ Kadri - McClement - Ashton/ Frattin - Steckel - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 If you asked Leafs fans who their mvp was last season, most would say Phaneuf, Kessel or Lupul. That poll was 2 seasons ago when Kessel was a 60 point player and Lupul was a 2nd/3rd line tweener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
‹(•¿•)› Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Why would TO trade us their top 2 centers? Take a look at your projected Leaf lines, you have JVR (not a center) and Connolly (made of glass) as your top 2 centers. They could have Patrick Roy in his prime in goal, and still be under .500 with that lineup. Even giving up Bozak would be a pretty huge loss, given their lack of depth at center. Maybe Bozak and Ashton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Why would TO trade us their top 2 centers? Take a look at your projected Leaf lines, you have JVR (not a center) and Connolly (made of glass) as your top 2 centers. They could have Patrick Roy in his prime in goal, and still be under .500 with that lineup. Even giving up Bozak would be a pretty huge loss, given their lack of depth at center. Maybe Bozak and Ashton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 He is most definitely better than Lupul. Kessel is worth more to the Leafs because of what they paid for him and his potential to score more goals. Kessel does not play defense, that`s one of the problems with him, Grabo is a top notch two way player. Heart and sole of the team, has the respect of his teammates etc, etc, As it stands right now Grabo is better than Kessel. Would I trade Kessel for Grabo straight up? Probably not but depending on my team needs I might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 He's a 2nd line player. Yes he is a very good one but he is a 2nd line player, Lupul and Kessel are both first line players, both produce more than him and both backcheck and play the two way game just as much. That's like saying Kesler is better than Henrik. sort of. Grabo is probably the equivalent of Burrows or Booth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf smell Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 He's a 2nd line player. Yes he is a very good one but he is a 2nd line player, Lupul and Kessel are both first line players, both produce more than him and both backcheck and play the two way game just as much. That's like saying Kesler is better than Henrik. sort of. Grabo is probably the equivalent of Burrows or Booth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Well then I don't think we are a Burrows or Booth away from the Cup. We need more then another one of those two players. And I love Burr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 kessel back check?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwarrior Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 not bad, but grabovski is a little too streaky for my liking. and seeing as how toronto needs a goalie, i say try and sqeeze as much out of them as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'd still prefer to have something un-tampered coming back. We don't need undersized, unfit guys like Kadri coming back - that's a project a cup bound team can't take on. As for Grabovski I can't see Gillis bringing in a guy with a 5.5m cap hit when our internal cap structure is so rigid. I don't see Burke moving Grabovski either, if they have one consistent forward it's this guy. Colbourne and Ashton are far from top prospects, and I highly doubt Burke would part with their best D man in Gardiner. Due to this I think the best thing coming out of Toronto would be a first, and Bozak. Atleast Bozak wasn't developed as a Leaf, we've seen how that works out. I mean a key problem of trading for anything from Toronto is they quite frankly do not meet Canucks standards of fitness, work ethic, and ability to play both sides of the ice. It took David Booth a while to adjust to our system, and you guys want to bring in players that haven't achieved Booth's numbers and expect better results ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalsnipe Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Absolutely horrible, it would take Luongo ++ to get Grabovski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'd still prefer to have something un-tampered coming back. We don't need undersized, unfit guys like Kadri coming back - that's a project a cup bound team can't take on. As for Grabovski I can't see Gillis bringing in a guy with a 5.5m cap hit when our internal cap structure is so rigid. I don't see Burke moving Grabovski either, if they have one consistent forward it's this guy. Colbourne and Ashton are far from top prospects, and I highly doubt Burke would part with their best D man in Gardiner. Due to this I think the best thing coming out of Toronto would be a first, and Bozak. Atleast Bozak wasn't developed as a Leaf, we've seen how that works out. I mean a key problem of trading for anything from Toronto is they quite frankly do not meet Canucks standards of fitness, work ethic, and ability to play both sides of the ice. It took David Booth a while to adjust to our system, and you guys want to bring in players that haven't achieved Booth's numbers and expect better results ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovalsnipe Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ik I mentioned Kadri before but I do understand why he doesn't fit here, I was just passionate that he could breakout if he was finally treated properly. I agree that Burke may not wanna give up Grabo but if he would be willing somehow I would do it. Grabo is an extremely hard worker, he plays a two way game, and his skillset would be perfect on our 2nd line. If we can afford it under the cap (which we can) why not do it. Not to mention that he is one of there most consistent players. I do wanna mention that I agree 100% with the part I highlighted, that's why I dont really think Colbourne is the 1st thing we should target, and Ashton probably isn't the greatest either. And like I have said (and everyone pretty much knows) there is no chance Gardiner is in the deal. Maybe we should go (if they would be willing to give up the 1st) Bozak, 1st and maybe another + No, he's not that valuable, but I agree that they dont wanna get rid of him. They would probably do Luongo for him one for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 If the Canucks needed a goalie, would you trade Burrows for Luongo and his contract? Grabovski is their Burrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombieksa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Per Cam Charron: . With Grabovski Without Grabovski Brown 0.509 0.471 Connolly 0.556 0.472 Crabb 0.476 0.486 Frattin 0.552 0.440 Kessel 0.635 0.483 Kulemin 0.525 0.470 Lombardi 0.441 0.464 Lupul 0.592 0.480 MacArthur 0.560 0.445 7 of 9 wingers are plus players when playing with Grabovski. 0 are without. He is their best two-way player and moves play forward. Also per Drance numbers his individual point percentage 2008-2012 at 5v5 is a cool 70.3% (For 206 goals being scored while on the ice, he has points on 145 of them) So he is an effective player at even strength. (Similiar numbers to Jordan Staal). With Vancouver playing such a possession style game I could see Mikhail flourishing on vancouver's roster, especially with such hardworking forwards such as Higgins, Hansen, Burrows, Kassian and another possession dominant forward in Booth. To Van: Grabovski Franson 2nd To Tor: Luongo Schroeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossram Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Hi, this is my first one in awhile, hopefully people like it, if you do or don't please give your feedback. Vancouver: Mikhail Grabovski, Tyler Bozak Toronto: Roberto Luongo Vancouver Line-up: Daniel - Henrik - Burrows Booth - Kesler - Grabovski Higgins - Bozak - Hansen Manny - Lappy - Raymond Toronto's Line-up: (My Projected line-up after the trade) Lupul - JVR - Kessel Kulemin - Connolly - McArthur Kadri - Lombardi - Frattin Steckel - McClement - Brown Before you post I would just like to point out..... From Toronto's perspective. they are still loaded on center's, and with the young players they have that are ready to make the jump, there forward group doesn't become much weaker, so even though they give up two good forwards, they still have a solid forward group (as you can see). From our point of view. Grabo to me seems like he has the skillset and work ethic to be perfect for the 2nd line, and though I wasn't a big fan of Bozak's in the past I have looked into him and I was impressed, he actually is a good two way player, goes to the tough areas, and can be counted on when the game is on the line. Please leave feedback, Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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