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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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The biggest impact of this, from my initial perspective, is that it allows the negotiation to move forward without a formal offer being presented from either side.

The net effect being that both parties could agree to a settlement without it being viewed as a 'Win" by either party. As it stands now neither side can objectively let the other's CBA proposal be accepted or it will be viewed as capitulation by the other. In essence, it is unbearable from the PA perspective to accept the NHL's deal and vice versa.

This opportunity allows a deal to get done without either party losing face. The only sidebar being that they both already have to a large degree. At this point it's all damage control.

/ I'd still like to see Canadian mediators sitting at the table but, oh well. Onwards and upwards!

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/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=10993728">snapback.pngEmployeeoftheMonth, on 26 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

I may be reading this wrong or perhaps I wasn't clear but I'm talking about how much an employer would pay on average for their employees salaries (and everything that comes along with that) as well as how much they spend on their product (and all that comes along with that) 35 percent seems really low to me.

the answer is... (insert drumroll).... as little as they can.

welcome to the problem of global capitalism. it is always seeming easier to pay less. at least while the developing world is still developing.

and that mentality gets transferred home, so that the top 1% have 99% of the wealth, and the trend keeps getting worse.

to really distribute wealth, we have a few choices:

* get trade agreements that account for the differences between developing and developed countries (fat chance! there go profits!)

* wait until the developing countries aren't developing countries anymore (see you in a dozen lifetimes or so...)

* wait until energy is virtually free, and then the economy changes (see you in 2 dozen lifetimes or so... solar or cold fusion anyone?)

so. owners are global capitalists. they are used to making insane profits. I am on their side if they could reduce player salary, reduce their profits, and reduce the expense of us going to games live. put a cap on that! the fans should be part of the collective process .... and good luck with that, meaning this whole thing is pointless really.

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Thanks for posting the tweets about the mediator, playboi19!

Not much additional information at TSN yet, but let's all hope it's a good sign.

U.S. FEDERAL MEDIATORS NOW IN INVOLVED IN NHL/NHLPA TALKS

U.S. federal mediators are now involved in the labour talks between the NHL and NHL Players' Association.

"I have had separate, informal discussions with the key representatives of the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players' Association during the course of their negotiations for a successor collective bargaining agreement," said Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service Director George H. Cohen in a statement.

"At the invitation of the FMCS, and with the agreement of both parties, the ongoing negotiations will now be conducted under our auspices. I have assigned Deputy Director Scot L. Beckenbaugh, Director of Mediation Services John Sweeney, and Commissioner Guy Serota to serve as the mediators."

"Due to the extreme sensitivity of these negotiations and consistent with the FMCS's long-standing practice, the Agency will refrain from any public comment concerning the future schedule and/or the status of the negotiations until further notice."

More to follow.

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Pleased to hear a mediator will be involved, this should speed things along for better or worse. In my opinion this is great news for the PA, if both sides present where they started in terms of negotiation, and where they are now, there is no way the league can make the argument that the PA isn't negotiating. The PA will inevitably make the case that black letter contracts are not being honoured, a fact in which the league has no defence.

Forever optimistic, hockey Dec 15!

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No offense to you poetica but I didn't really like that link because it didn't reference real data. I look at real data for a living. I don't want some study I want source financial data. So I started looking. PITA. Rona was the only one that was easy to find explicity personnel costs..........and RONA is a lousy example.

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"Alex Ovechkin says it was stupid for the owners to sign long term deals just to try to cut them later." :picard:

Yes, it was stupid of owners to bend to the players and their agents and give them those stupid contracts and structure them to fit into the cap.

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"Alex Ovechkin says it was stupid for the owners to sign long term deals just to try to cut them later." :picard:

Yes, it was stupid of owners to bend to the players and their agents and give them those stupid contracts and structure them to fit into the cap.

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Progress behind the noise

For just a moment, tune out the rhetoric and the noise.

Don’t listen to any of the verbal grenades lobbed towards Gary Bettman by NHL players. Ignore the recent talk about union decertification. Don’t pay attention to any stories you hear about one side being ready to cave. And don’t even get excited about the news of a federal mediator being involved in the process.

Now ask yourself one simple question: Are the players and owners any closer to coming to terms on a new collective bargaining agreement today than they were six weeks ago?

The answer — once you disregard all of the white noise — is a resounding yes.

And that is why I firmly believe there will be NHL hockey played at some point this season.

The hardliners on both sides would like to paint a picture of this season being in jeopardy. But the truth of the matter is that both sides have shown enough willingness to compromise that a deal is likely imminent. The back and forth we’re seeing in the past two weeks is actually the final stage of the hard negotiations.

When Donald Fehr and the NHLPA staff walked into the league offices last week and presented a new offer, we would be naive to think that Gary Bettman and the board of governors would immediately accept the proposal with open arms. Of course they were going to reject it; that’s what a tough negotiation is all about.

But when speaking to reporters in New York after the meetings concluded last week, Bettman sounded as optimistic as we’ve heard him throughout the whole process.

“Hopefully, there’s some momentum so we can bring this to a conclusion,” he said.

Does that sound like a commissioner who is completely frustrated with the process? There is no way in the world that Bettman would use the words “momentum” and “conclusion” unless there was actually some traction gained in the last round of meetings.

This negotiation may have started on the wrong foot back in July, when the owners declared war on the players with their first offer of a 57-43 split on revenues. But since then, they’ve essentially both agreed that a 50-50 split will work for both parties moving forward.

Do they still have some hurdles to clear in terms of how and when they will to get to 50-50?

Absolutely.

But the major philosophical divide has been bridged, especially since the players have now moved off their position of guaranteed hard dollars. What we’ve learned in the past is that once something is on the table, it never really gets taken off down the road. So now that the players are willing to work off a percentage-based formula for determining the 50-50 split, that will likely be the framework of the deal moving forward.

At one point back in September, these two sides were at war as to what constituted the Hockey Related Revenue (HRR) pie. But gradually, they both came to an agreement on what should be included and that once contentious HRR issue is now in the rear-view mirror.

The contracting issues are the next items on the agenda, but slowly we’re starting to see the erosion of those hurdles as well. The players have moved toward the owners in terms of trying to eliminate back-diving contracts. The news that both sides have agreed to use a federal mediator seems to be another step in the right direction. The next set of meetings will have a neutral third-party to help steer the ship and presumably bring the two sides closer together.

And before that happens, we should also anticipate that both sides will publicly say they’ve made their best offer and there is no more room to manoeuver from their perspective. They’ll both remind you that federal mediation isn’t binding because, after all, the rhetoric and PR spinning has become a major part of this process. But don’t believe any of the hype that is churned out by either side. If you recall, these are the same negotiations that were supposed to have a two-week moratorium this month — yet miraculously managed to reconvene just four days later.

While both sides like to paint the other as the villain, the truth of the matter is that they have both moved toward the middle. The sad thing is that this process has moved along at a glacial pace, robbing us of an entire 82-game season.

When the season was completely wiped out in 2004-05, the two sides did not have any meaningful negotiations from the time the lockout started in September until December. This time, the entire process has a different feel, because we can actually mark some progress over the past two months.

The smart money says that the next important date on the calendar is Dec. 5, when the NHL Board of Governors are scheduled to meet in New York. This will mark the first time that all 30 team representatives are in one room since they gave their unilateral support to Bettman to institute the lockout back in September.

And it’s not a coincidence that Dec. 5 is exactly 10 days away from when the season could start at the earliest, since the league cancelled all games up to and including Dec. 14. My feeling is that the third-party mediation will help this process and the Board of Governors will have something to vote on — giving us legitimate hope that NHL hockey returns before Christmas.

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Pish posh...applesauce....what does he do...he's a journalist...I would not trust a damn thing that he would ever write unless I saw it with mine own eyes....

Just another "journo" trying to create havoc to rowdy up the peasants and create an uprising....{Look what i did guys} lol

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Re: the removal of mediator Serota.

UPDATED: Statement by FMCS Director George H. Cohen on NHL Labor Talks

Release Date: 11/26/2012

Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service Director George H. Cohen has issued a follow-up statement today regarding a mediator assigned to the ongoing labor negotiations between the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players Association:

Within one hour after I issued a press release announcing that further negotiations between the NHL and NHLPA would be conducted under the auspices of the FMCS, it has been called to my attention that there are issues involving an allegedly hacked Twitter account associated with Commissioner Guy Serota, one of the mediators I assigned. Accordingly, in order to immediately dispel any cloud on the mediation process, and without regard to the merits of the allegations, I have determined to take immediate action, namely to remove Commissioner Serota from this assignment.

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Re: the removal of mediator Serota.

Source: http://www.fmcs.gov/...39&itemID=23889

Also, according to tweets by PIerre LeBrun @ TSN, Serota says (via email) that his Twitter account was hacked. It seems he had the account closed, but an imposter opened a new one under the same name right after. I have no idea if that one has been closed or not.

I still have no idea what the tweets in question said, though.

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If you think the PA are the one's trying to shove the owner's around then you have absolutely no clue what is going on.

The Players have already made over a billion dollars in rollbacks, yet the Owner's refuse to budge at all, it seems like the players move a mile, and the owner's move an inch.

Where we are at right now is summed up perfectly by (From the NHL) "We appreciate the rollbacks, but you still haven't given us what we want yet"

Your theory just proves the owner's don't care about the game, they just want to win, that's all they care about.

There not trying to form a partnership, there trying to win a war.

If they really cared about saving the season they wouldn't have made such a lopsided 1st proposal, and they would have actually make a some-what serious proposal in August, rather than waiting to October.

There is no reason we should lose the season over this, but we will and it's embaress, we are fighting over about 190 Million dollars or whatever it is.

To me it just makes the league come across as even more of a joke than they already are, the Players tried to bargain in good faith but the owner's seem to have been hellbent again bargain in good faith along with them, they have wanted a war all along, and if that's what they want then I can't wait till the PA desertifies and starts battling back.

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