inane Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 So, how's the new Port Mann doing? Surprise surprise... http://www.vancouversun.com/business/fewer+cars+using+Port+Mann+Bridge+since+tolls/9482118/story.html Comment on that story here: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/dude-where-are-my-toll-paying-cars-port-mann-joins-the-watch-list/ With a fun graph illustrating the idiocy of it all here: http://daily.sightline.org/2013/10/03/british-columbias-traffic-delusion/ All so silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodos Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I cross the Alex Fraser at about 6:30am and have notice a slight increase in volume. I am sure they'll just toll every bridge eventually around the same time gas hits $2/L. Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I still don't understand why they didn't build an extra couple lanes for a skytrains out to Langley on the new Port Mann.. It saves us from pollution, raises money, reduces traffic congestion... Not to mention Vancouver City wants people to come DT to spend money but don't want to share the cost of a bridge bringing people into the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jovocop55 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I still don't understand why they didn't build an extra couple lanes for a skytrains out to Langley on the new Port Mann.. It saves us from pollution, raises money, reduces traffic congestion... Not to mention Vancouver City wants people to come DT to spend money but don't want to share the cost of a bridge bringing people into the city. we know the ppl up top don't use their brains.. just sit around and collect big fat paycheque and bonuses... if they just charge $1 or $1.50, ppl will keep using the bridge and benefits everyone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerIce Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I used it today.. I've used it 3 times since it opened. Its been avoided at all cost, I like scenic (free) routes more anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pouria Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 we know the ppl up top don't use their brains.. just sit around and collect big fat paycheque and bonuses... if they just charge $1 or $1.50, ppl will keep using the bridge and benefits everyone.. They just want to add to their big fat paycheque. I mean $3 for crossing the bridge, so $6 for a return trip is pretty ridiculous considering the transit tax on top of the gas tax. They will probably destroy the good ol' Patullo bridge and replace it with another tolled bridge. It will get to the point where riding a taxi would be cheaper than driving a car considering tolls, gas prices, insurance, parking prices etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pouria Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I used it today.. I've used it 3 times since it opened. Its been avoided at all cost, I like scenic (free) routes more anyways. Am just waiting till the invention of jet packs becomes commercialized. Then we won't have any worries about tolls, insurances and other crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So, how's the new Port Mann doing? Surprise surprise... http://www.vancouver...2118/story.html Comment on that story here: http://pricetags.wor...the-watch-list/ With a fun graph illustrating the idiocy of it all here: http://daily.sightli...affic-delusion/ All so silly. Hey, you should be cheering that building the road didn't increase demand! Well, one with a toll at least. But don't worry, the free options will be going away sooner rather than later. There will be tolls on the Putello and Massey tunnel/bridge soon enough which will leave just the Alex Fraser as free. Which of course will simply make North Delta loose their mind. And when that comes there will be plenty of incoming toll revenue (to be swallowed up into general revenue of course.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Way to ignore the point. That graph says it all. We haven't learned a thing. Also, you really need to learn the difference between lose and loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I still don't understand why they didn't build an extra couple lanes for a skytrains out to Langley on the new Port Mann.. It saves us from pollution, raises money, reduces traffic congestion... Not to mention Vancouver City wants people to come DT to spend money but don't want to share the cost of a bridge bringing people into the city. Other than it doesn't connect to existing skytrain, putting a transit station in the middle of a freeway is inane, and most importantly.... TRANSLINK DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE FUNDING TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, NEVER MIND EXPANSION!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Way to ignore the point. That graph says it all. We haven't learned a thing. Also, you really need to learn the difference between lose and loose. I know the difference I just can't be bothered to spell check. One should not expect high quality in free advice. If we had a graph that showed total traffic volume over a practical deliniation line (like say the south Fraser where all the tolls seem to be showing up, not by random) were down in total, and not just a cherry picked graph of volumes right after a price increase in a down economy, then you might be onto something. But as is, with just a partical picture of what's going on (especially in light of knowing that other bridges along that cordon have seen increases in volumes, some in the dramatic category) making decisions based on your garbage graph would be no more than a garbage in, garbage out exercise. What's sad is you know that but the urban social engineers don't let telling the whole truth get in the way of the surmonising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know the difference I just can't be bothered to spell check. One should not expect high quality in free advice. If we had a graph that showed total traffic volume over a practical deliniation line (like say the south Fraser where all the tolls seem to be showing up, not by random) were down in total, and not just a cherry picked graph of volumes right after a price increase in a down economy, then you might be onto something. But as is, with just a partical picture of what's going on (especially in light of knowing that other bridges along that cordon have seen increases in volumes, some in the dramatic category) making decisions based on your garbage graph would be no more than a garbage in, garbage out exercise. What's sad is you know that but the urban social engineers don't let telling the whole truth get in the way of the surmonising. The point you're ignoring is these projects are propped up on delusional projections. Golden Ears, Port Mann, the list will keep growing. The government know this, but pushes ahead anyway. It's ridiculous and just a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The point you're ignoring is these projects are propped up on delusional projections. Golden Ears, Port Mann, the list will keep growing. The government know this, but pushes ahead anyway. It's ridiculous and just a waste of money. Which is why we need to look at it in the contect of the entire numbers crossing the south fraser as we move down the line. However, in order to keep people from rat running, the tolls would have to be the same everywhere. At existing volumes, the Massey crossing should pay for itself. At existing volumes (er make that, pre people switching to it for being free) even a three lane bridge should make a handsome profit. At existing volumes, putting in an interchange at 72nd and a collector/distributer system (so all of North Delta goes onto the bridge at one location) will make a massive profit. So with all that money, connect Bridgeview in Surrey with King Edward in Coquitlam (toss a bone to New West) and it would be a cheap project with a good money potential. But what needs to happen if you want to analyse it is to look at what it would cost to do all those things, how much traffic there is with the distortion removed, and then see how volumes work over time. Then one could make a business case and if projections are still down in this scenario, then yes, perhaps not as much needs to be done. But to look at one peice of the system as a one off especially with "free" alternatives available, one should instead be shocked not to see some distortions. However, we are only partly into the program, and it's only been a few months, so to say the long term trend will not hold is just as much guesswork as anything else. At least the projections are based off of something rather than a short term blip in the graph in one location. But of course, you know this, but it's easy to ignore things that don't fit your vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Which is why we need to look at it in the contect of the entire numbers crossing the south fraser as we move down the line. However, in order to keep people from rat running, the tolls would have to be the same everywhere. At existing volumes, the Massey crossing should pay for itself. At existing volumes (er make that, pre people switching to it for being free) even a three lane bridge should make a handsome profit. At existing volumes, putting in an interchange at 72nd and a collector/distributer system (so all of North Delta goes onto the bridge at one location) will make a massive profit. So with all that money, connect Bridgeview in Surrey with King Edward in Coquitlam (toss a bone to New West) and it would be a cheap project with a good money potential. But what needs to happen if you want to analyse it is to look at what it would cost to do all those things, how much traffic there is with the distortion removed, and then see how volumes work over time. Then one could make a business case and if projections are still down in this scenario, then yes, perhaps not as much needs to be done. But to look at one peice of the system as a one off especially with "free" alternatives available, one should instead be shocked not to see some distortions. However, we are only partly into the program, and it's only been a few months, so to say the long term trend will not hold is just as much guesswork as anything else. At least the projections are based off of something rather than a short term blip in the graph in one location. But of course, you know this, but it's easy to ignore things that don't fit your vision. HAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 HAHAHA Let's see who's vision ends up coming true. Well, except you got me on one thing. The tolls will never go to transit! Keep on the good fight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Let's see who's vision ends up coming true. Well, except you got me on one thing. The tolls will never go to transit! Keep on the good fight! Hardly call 'build/widen more roads' a vision, but whatever you say chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBadUgly Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 $300 is ridiculous, I need that for my weed. On a serious note, WTF am I paying my taxes for? The BC gov't takes A LOT of tax money from us all of this crap should be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapefruits Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Way to ignore the point. That graph says it all. We haven't learned a thing. Also, you really need to learn the difference between lose and loose. I see this more and more these days with people, I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hardly call 'build/widen more roads' a vision, but whatever you say chief. It's the future, like it or not. If you want a more transit oriented one, you have to win drivers over to your side. Get ready for a failed transit referendum too. Unless you want to win. Then make it "should we abolish translink". See how that one pans out. That should give you an idea of the mood of the electorate. We could move to a system where all the roads, highways, buses, and transit lines are operated as one system. But to do so would require giving drivers a peice of the pie, as much as it would be loathsome for you and other social engineers to do so. And if you want to social engineer, I would recommend actually zoning for density in places that already have transit. Still some pretty horendous examples of suburban sprawl like developements as stone's through from long existing skytrain stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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