Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian

[-AJ-]

All I'm seeing is multiple warning signs of a troll.

[BuretoMogilny]

Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

• 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  
• 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  
• 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  
• 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.
  

And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?

Your points do deserve a response.

Clearly stats matter and a couple of things to note/think about.

1. None of us know what he has been told to focus on by the coaching staff of the nucks and chi other than fitness which he has addressed = positive, not sure how the two best players on the team taking him under their wing is a negative but you have spun it as such - to me its a sign of leadership and how highly this kid is thought of by those leaders and the Canucks.

2. Points are down yes, but as a poster pointed out he is tied for the team lead. The team is not scoring and that afffects everyone, doesn't matter who you are unless your last name is Bure, Gretkzy, Lemiuex etc. He plays a team game and will score not on his own but be part of a group contribution, but hey should he be on a ppg pace, we would all like it, end of the world given team scoring ..no.

3. Perhaps he has been told to focus on his defensive positioning, puck protection, board battles etc. If so often young players have so much going through their heads in a game, they can't play 'their game'. This is part of development. Purge the bad habits, create new good ones, so when he makes the jump the issues AV would have with him are gone and then his offensive side will come. This is clearly how the canucks develop players and very important given how AV awards ice and plays younger guys. If he hasn't developed this then he will get crushed by AV. and then bust.

4. PIMS - means he's getting involved. I like that, that's his role on the nucks when he comes up, and pitch in the odd goal and assist. If he can play 45 games (shortened season) and pitch in 8-10 goals, with 10 or so assists and bring a physical presense, and be defensively responsible, I think he'll be on the right track.

Think a bit deeper kid, not always about goals and assists, usually a method to coaching and the Nucks are developing him in a certain way....he's going to be a terrific NHL'er in about 4-5 years, someone teams hate to play against.

[BuretoMogilny]

I live in Chicago and have seen him play many times, both in Chicago and even in Peoria.

Oh you;re a hawks fan...makes sense now

[Jägermeister]

I live in Chicago and have seen him play many times, both in Chicago and even in Peoria.

Maybe you should have said that before, instead of this:

"Watch him play" - fine, but the numbers don't lie.

Just to clear up any confusion.

Basing your arguments off of stats is a trademark of somebody who doesn't actually watch the games.

[King of the ES]

The AHL is not even a consideration to real games in the NHL.

Total BS.

If, instead, Kassian was putting up numbers like Justin Schultz is, this site would be in a perennial frenzy, and we all know it.

[SamJamIam]

King of the BS strikes again. Please don't feed the trolls. This kid has made 3 of these threads in the course of a few weeks. This junk needs to get locked.

[Cromeslab]

A little concern,maybe......"multiple warning signs"?cmon stop your nonsense

[King of the ES]

King of the BS strikes again. Please don't feed the trolls. This kid has made 3 of these threads in the course of a few weeks. This junk needs to get locked.

Just like when you said that the Rangers acquired Rick Nash via free agency, this is simply and plainly false.

I've made 5 threads since joining this forum, and this is only the 2nd one that deals specifically with the Canucks.

Sounds like with all of your repeated lies and false statements - unlike what I've shared in this thread (statistics) - you're a far higher-ranking "troll" than I am.

[BuretoMogilny]

Outside of the semantics here, his point is fair to argue,

You don't think he's any good because he's small. Classic size bias.

And for the record, let's not put words in other peoples' mouths. Never, ever have I said that Kadri is "great". What I've said is that he's probably roughly where he should be, as a 2009 high draft pick. Respectable NHL production through a limited opportunity, and very good minor league production.

Actually NO!!!

If you go read my posts about him, I have watched Kadri play alot. Its not about size, in fact I've mentioned alot of players his size or smaller that have done extremely well in the NHL.

SO.

1. Don't put words in my mouth

2. Don't make assumptions about my points without reading them

3. The point of Kadri is a) he's a 'tweener' and will be great in the AHL b. he doesn't excel at any one thing that will allow him to make the jump successfully as other smaller players have (skating, speed, strength, ability to avoid hits in the tough areas, etc)

Thanks for coming out Chicago Troll

[Gollumpus]

I'm just upset that he doesn't seem to be getting better. Stats matter.

Hasn't Kassian been asked to work more on his defensive game, and as a result his offensive numbers have suffered? At least that's what all the folks who are Grabner fans kept saying whenever there was a drop off in his offensive numbers.

regards,

G.

[70seven]

I guess being concerned would depend on your expectations for Kassian.

I dont have any real expectations because the kid is still figuring out what role he will fill. From the games Ive seen he has some above average playmaking ability, and some interesting creativity off of the rush. Whether this will translate well to the NHL game remains to be seen.

I am sure that hell be a full time NHLer... But will he be closer to a Todd Bertuzzi or a Chris Neil? No one knows, not even Zack himself. People should stop worrying and just let the story unfold.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

This is what I'm seeing in this thread:

[Ghewlash]

Having watched most of Kassian's games this year, I for one am super excited to see him on the Canucks. Yeah he's not putting up huge points, but the guy gets loads of chances every game. The guy is a scoring chance machine; he's just not burying them. Kassian is such an awesome player and makes so many great down low plays and is always noticeable on the ice. If you watched him play, how can you not be crazy-optimistic about him??

[Primal Optimist]

If he is tied for top scoring on the team, even if it is a reduction on last years stats, I am okay with that..you can't do better than 'best on the team'. There is no better than the best. Hockey is not like golf...your not out to improve your handicap year over year..simply because hockey is dynamic where golf is static...but if you want to know more about golf, talk to the leafs.

I think kassian is working on his inner fortitude..someone pulled him aside and said hey kid, you wanna be the next big power forward? you gotta work on your mean, not your shooting.

[Smashian Kassian]

Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

• 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  
• 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  
• 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  
• 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.
  

And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?

Okay King what are you so concerned about?

What in his game is lacking since I assume you have watched all the games and can identify the weak point in it.

So enlighten us, breakdown Kassians game for us.

[DeNiro]

Title should have been:

Kassian, do we really want him?

[Brockbuster]

I've watched about 10 to 12 wolves games this year and he's fine. He has the most assists and tied for most points on a terrible team offence wise. If Zach leads any team in points in any league you know that team has a problem, that's not his forte. When he was in the AHL last time he was on a high powered offensive team and that's the difference!! He skates very well, lays down great passes and he's improving. My only criticism is that I thought he would be more aggressive and belligerent fighting wise and he's not really a policeman type or a sh*t disturber. He doesn't back down from it but he doesn't look for it either, unlike Lucic who he gets compared to he's more passive (so far anyway).

Good hands, good skating, good size just needs a little time, he'll be fine.

[70seven]

Also to reflect.... While playing in Rochester, Kassian did have 26 points in 30 games. However in those 30 games, he only had 31 PIM.

He's seemed to take a bigger role as an enforcer with Chicago, now having 59 PIM in in just 27 games.

Isnt that whats been lacking on the Canucks?? Someone who can intimidate, and stand up for his teammates, while actually being able to produce? He doesnt need to put up primary numbers to be effective. And if his creative playmaking can translate to the NHL, it's quite possible he could fit very nicley beside a healthy Ryan Kesler.

If he can put up 40 points, kick the cr@p out of little dirt bags like Marchand, and wear down defenders with an aggressive forecheck, I'll be just fine with that, thatnkyou very much.

Now Jensen on the other hand.... Thats where Ill care more for the numbers. (12 goals in 32 games playing as a rookie pro on a dud offensive club) Playing with the Sedins... this kid could hit 40.

[n00bxQb]

I've watched about 10 to 12 wolves games this year and he's fine. He has the most assists and tied for most points on a terrible team offence wise. If Zach leads any team in points in any league you know that team has a problem, that's not his forte. When he was in the AHL last time he was on a high powered offensive team and that's the difference!! He skates very well, lays down great passes and he's improving. My only criticism is that I thought he would be more aggressive and belligerent fighting wise and he's not really a policeman type or a sh*t disturber. He doesn't back down from it but he doesn't look for it either, unlike Lucic who he gets compared to he's more passive (so far anyway).

Good hands, good skating, good size just needs a little time, he'll be fine.

He shouldn't go looking for fights, if that's what you're suggesting. The last thing we need is a prospect with concussion issues and mangled hands.

[SamJamIam]

Can I just say how happy I am to see a mod call KotBS a troll? This made my day.