Spoosh Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 For the record. Just because a player has played for the Florida Panthers, doesn't mean he's useless or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I don't think we will get Goc, Petro and Shore. They are already short on centers, I could see us getting one or the other (Goc would likely be easier to fetch, and fits the bill better for a 3C for us moving forward) but I can't see them giving up both with the shortage of centers they have, especially since those 2 are there top 6 centers (Shore 1st line, Goc 2nd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well I've yet to be proven wrong on the "core" of my positions. (I have been trounced on a few trade proposals ) Yes, I remain in a camp where I called Kassian an incomplete trade. No, I'm not in any camp that calls him a bust either. And I do agree his potential is to fill a vastly important hole (RW, physical forward, potential scorer, has speed also so no liability). I like Kassian! But he has yet to fill a significant role, where CoHo would at this moment if he were here. A large number of CDC'ers, your self included in my opinion stomped on Cody, and he is proving that was mis-guided. But I can also be happy with trade moving forward? AV has to start, IMO, playing more than just Burrows with the Twins. Do they play better with him? Sure! But our best two play makers (Danny & Hank) are on one line & in fact Burrows after years with them is our 3rd best passing forward; so its no surprise our depth scoring is questionable? Nobody to feed snipers on lower lines! I like to point to the fact that we got the value we wanted out of kass when he line up with the Twins. And Burrows also elevated the play of the second line and we had 4 lines going, even without Kesler. Now we have two (Raymond/Hanson/Higgins the other). Kassian has showed that when guys have structure, and feed him puck he knows what to do. We have to play Kassian with the Twins more! It could also teach him to be more effective when he plays on other lines, and bring up his confidence. He was good when he was there! Or; GMMG has to make a trade! Booth and Kassian also look good together. But as revered as his passing has been on CDC, Kassian does not have the slick puck possession skills, just the quick pass. Him and Booth could do wonders with a play making puck possession centre. It does no good acquiring guys (like Booth & Kassian, note on Garrison inclusive momentarily) without placing them with the right complimentary players? I suppose you could argue either Schroeder will become that, or 09/10 Kesler who had 50 assists will re-surface? Well it has not. So I am growing impatient! And note, a rental 3rd line C to spell Schroeder from too much responsibility is my solution as I believe Schroeder can become this, but this year its too soon; and we owe it to ourselves if we have cup ambitions. No, I am not in a camp that has EVER questioned Garrison's signing. Outstanding asset. We NEED a 220 lb athletic stay at home defenceman. If we never see the bomb he has, I still might be fine with his acquisition! I actually bought in to it more heavily this past off season, specifically reading your posts which quoted his minutes on the right side; both on the PP with Campbell, but also in general. But; it still leaves us with 4 Top 4 left D. And all, including Garrison have yet to show they can shift to the right effectively for us. So, it's another incomplete move. I could be happy with it, if we acquired the right side D we still need! I quite like your proposals including Petrovic! Fills exactly a hole we need filled. If it comes with a 3C and Ballard and Lou go back; awesome! Green would be better? Carlson even better as younger and cheaper, but less likely for that reason. And that they have Carlson, if they gave up Green's salary they still have their right shooting puck moving D. In short, he's expendable, and shedding his salary makes Lou actually a money saver which saves their bacon. Rhetoric aside, we can quote GM's who say they won't take on contracts as Wash is currently doing. But Burke said the same thing, and it's widely reported it was going to happen anyway. Its called posturing. Green and MoJo for Lou and Ballard makes sense to me? Anyway, I would be happy as long as we make such a move. Petrovic proposals aside; you post we are fine on D as we currently are? (honest question) I say we have to make a move! And I suggest also a rental RW for depth in an alternate trade. Or also swap a LW for a RW in a hockey trade (such as the MTL/Dallas trade a week or so back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I don't think we will get Goc, Petro and Shore. They are already short on centers, I could see us getting one or the other (Goc would likely be easier to fetch, and fits the bill better for a 3C for us moving forward) but I can't see them giving up both with the shortage of centers they have, especially since those 2 are there top 6 centers (Shore 1st line, Goc 2nd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Huberdeau has already become their 1C. If you look at the Panthers centers ice time, they've had Huberdeau, Goc, Shore, Mueller, (and Weiss) playing a very close amount of ice time, with Matthias just behind, and Santorelli playing role/depth C. Weiss' injury does change things, yet again, for them though - and that may be, as you are suggesting, the tipping point at which even Shore becomes difficult to move in the short term. Who knows - even if you take Weiss, Goc and Shore out of that lineup, they still have Huberdeau, Mueller, Matthias, Santorelli and Howden - and then in the system, Bjugstad, Grimaldi, Rau, Trocheck... very young, but ridiculously talented up the middle. When I was thinking anyone on the Wolves, Ebbett came to mind haha. Anyhow, take Shore out and it's not a dealbreaker. Canucks throw in Ebbett or mid round pick to swap up to a 1st though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALTtimegreat Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Send Booth, Ballard, Garrison back to FLA along with Lu. Canucks are right up the cap limit because Gillis signed/traded for these three. Salo/ Erhoff >>> Garrison Grabner and 1st >>> Ballard Samuelsson >>>>>> Booth and his 4+ mil cap hit. Overrated Gillis not willing to give money and/or longer than one year deals to Salo,Erhoff, Torres but willing to take and/or sign overrated useless players with long term high cap hit and one with NTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I don't doubt Schroeder will be a play maker; I am saying he is not developed to the point where he is useful (enough) to us as that right now? And sure, yes in fact Kesler is a two way centre, Schroeder is a defensively responsible player with speed, coverage and budding talent. Maybe next year he will be good enough. What we still need is a more offensively gifted, puck possession guy to help our platoons of wingers start to score more goals this year! No Green; how about Orlov and Mojo? Is that enough to help us win this year... I suppose the same question could be asked of Petrovic, Goc and Shore? Is Shore going to kick start our offense, even if he's a nice asset to put in our stable? Same with Petrovic. We could do what we did last year again and get guys who will help us in 2 years... I don't want to win a trade, I want to win a cup! Mojo is closer to helping us right now, same with Nino on the Island. Amongst RW, centre and right D we need at least one guy who is dynamic and add's to our attack. Then the other two (we do need 3 pieces) can be physical fast bodies who are good enough to play, but whose main role is to alleviate match ups, win face off's and provide depth. Goc is the effective body who alleviates match ups, and wins face off's. Good score, fills one hole; who do we get that makes us offensively dynamic? Not going to bother to respond to anything Hodgson related until you are able to actually take something in context - ie. an actual quote or position of mine on a particular matter. Your laissez-faire paraphrasing and sentimental defensiveness - as in 'oh, oldnews, you stomped on Cody' is, as I've mentioned repeatedly to you, a non-starter. If you'd like to have a grown up conversation, go find anything I've posted, quote it, and I'll respond to any issue in an actual context. The thing about Schroeder and Kesler - they're both two way centers - and before you prejudge Schroeder's ability to be a playmaker, ask yourself what is more doubtful - Schroeder's ability to complete a pass, or Hodgson's ability to provide the coverage that is expected of a center at the NHL level. I personally think Hodgson would be better served by being converted to a winger - it would challenge his skating less, it would require less play down low in his own end, where he matches up poorly imo and lacks grit, and it would allow him to play more to his strengths, which are particular - he's make a better role winger than a center imo. It always amuses me when people suggest that Kesler should have been moved to his wing. Bass-ackwards. Garrison has yet to play much right side - he looked great doing just that with Hamhius last game. Green and Mojo - no thanks. I don't like a Washington deal (and don't think McPhee is in a position to take on Luongo anyhow) - unless it involved one of their young blueliners, or their prospects. I don't see that happening - McPhee has over 16 million tied up in a pair of 2020s contracts, and another 6 million in Green. In this CBA climate, he's in tight. Am I fine as the D currently are? No - I don't like the third pairing with Bieksa and Ballard out of the lineup. Regardless of what happens in the top 6, I'm not comfortable with Barker. The problem imo is that both Sauve and Connauton at one point were showing NHL potential - but Sauve has been setback by serious injury, and Connauton had a hickup the first half of this season. In terms of the top 6 right side, imo Bieksa, Tanev and Garrison are more than capable, but if a deal were cut for a RS where the Canucks didn't downgrade on Ballard, I'd be open to that. The group the Canucks have are more than capable - when their shat is together, there isn't a top 6 I like better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 These guys are all listed as centres on the Panthers web site! Plus Huberdeau certainly played centre ice last game i watched him play, with Mueller on the left and Kovalev. http://panthers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475213 http://panthers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473526 http://panthers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476456 http://panthers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475769 http://panthers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473574 They're like us, playing bodies where they need to fill holes. Maybe we could swap Higgins for Mueller as secondary parts behind a bigger trade. Did Kovalev go back to Russia? Would he not be worth a 4th rounder? Huberdeau is a LW, Mueller is a RW, Mattias is also a LW, Howden is in the minors and not ready for a call up, he is also a winger not a center. and Santorelli is LW on the 4th line but could move up, this is what there line-up currently looks like Huberdeau - Shore - Mueller Fleischmann - Goc - Skille Mattias - Weiss - Kopecky Santorelli - Smithson - Parros Then they have Upshall and Versteeg on IR, neither are centers. I don't think they want to move Huberdeau or Mueller to center, rather just leave them in there wing positions, Huberdeau especially. So if you take out Goc and Shore that leaves them with little on offense, Weiss, Mattias, Santorelli and Smithson would be the likely centers and thats not much in terms of offense, especially with the way Weiss is playing. What are our needs though? Are we confident in this defense with 4 left side guys? We need a 3C. Maybe we should get Goc, say something that I proposed (Lu + contract dumps for Goc, Petrovic, 2n Upshall [cap dump]) Then maybe we go to the Islanders and propose Ballard for Visnovsky. Or we could make the deal bigger and get a 3C there if FLA doesn't want to give up a center or doesn't want Lu right now, the deal could be expanded with the Isles: Ballard + Connaution + 2nd for Visnovsky and Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I just hope Gillis doesn't trade Lu for some bandaid solution to try and salvage the short-term. Until they figure out all that is wrong with this team and develope a plan, they aren't really a serious contender. Better to take a longer term look and grab some great prospects and picks that can contribute to a youth movement in a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I just hope Gillis doesn't trade Lu for some bandaid solution to try and salvage the short-term. Until they figure out all that is wrong with this team and develope a plan, they aren't really a serious contender. Better to take a longer term look and grab some great prospects and picks that can contribute to a youth movement in a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Send Booth, Ballard, Garrison back to FLA along with Lu. Canucks are right up the cap limit because Gillis signed/traded for these three. Salo/ Erhoff >>> Garrison Grabner and 1st >>> Ballard Samuelsson >>>>>> Booth and his 4+ mil cap hit. Overrated Gillis not willing to give money and/or longer than one year deals to Salo,Erhoff, Torres but willing to take and/or sign overrated useless players with long term high cap hit and one with NTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoolander Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 lets hope they do this. The fact that we lost to the flames and jackets scare me. The fact that our prospect pool is thin scares me more. Detroit cheated rebuilds for the longest time. Why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Maybe we should get Goc, say something that I proposed (Lu + contract dumps for Goc, Petrovic, 2n Upshall [cap dump]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlsson`s Flo Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 "We want a trade! We want a trade!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc44 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 lets hope they do this. The fact that we lost to the flames and jackets scare me. The fact that our prospect pool is thin scares me more. Detroit cheated rebuilds for the longest time. Why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Fixing Tampa Vancouver Teddy Purcell Nate Thompson Matthias Ohlund (Vancouver pays his salary, he retires as a Canuck... good will more than anything) Johan Hedberg Tampa Bay Roberto Luong Henrik Tallinder (Devils eat 1/2 salary) Keith Ballard New Jersey Anders Lindback 3rd Round Pick Vancouver 5th Round Pick Tampa BOOM! - Top 6 playmaker - 3rd line hard minute center - Backup goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Washington loses 5-2 to the Isles today. Something tells me this is the last straw. I would expect the Caps to be busy in the next few weeks. It's clear they need an upgrade on D and in net, and have lots of assets to get a deal done. I still think they could be a great trading partner for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Washington loses 5-2 to the Isles today. Something tells me this is the last straw. I would expect the Caps to be busy in the next few weeks. It's clear they need an upgrade on D and in net, and have lots of assets to get a deal done. I still think they could be a great trading partner for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Washington loses 5-2 to the Isles today. Something tells me this is the last straw. I would expect the Caps to be busy in the next few weeks. It's clear they need an upgrade on D and in net, and have lots of assets to get a deal done. I still think they could be a great trading partner for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 A small note: the Caps also lost Erskine in the 1st with an upper body injury. He's been one of their better D lately. Holtby has played well for them though. Even as they are, I wouldn't be surprised to see them sneak in the playoffs. There's probably much more concern in Philly at this point than in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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