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Province unveils options for Massey Tunnel replacement


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22 minutes ago, J.R. said:

-You agree tunnel needs replacing.

-You (hopefully by now) agree that lane continuity is important and that the current 8 lanes to 4  and no room for HOV (and hence transit) lanes leaves no room for transit expansion and is in fact hindering even current transit let alone future expansion.

-You (again, hopefully) agree that the UBC Sky train line should be a higher priority for rapid transit than the 99 corridor but that it should be planned for now to do it in the future (part of the actual bridge plan) when population density makes it more sensible.

So where's the problem? You get transit improvement and expansion now with actual HOV lanes, planning and basic groundwork for future rapid transit expansion all while improving the 8 lanes to 4 congestion for commuters and ever increasing goods movement.

The horrors!! :frantic::rolleyes:

See basically all my previous posts. This is piece meal 'planning'.

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On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 0:16 PM, inane said:

You're quite prickly aren't you.

I didn't say lanes aren't important. But like this government, you're not looking at the big picture before planning the details. We can talk off ramps and vehicles per hour and all sorts of numbers but we haven't even had the conversation about what the hell we're doing in the first place.

There is no track. You build one. 

It's telling that you consider a discussion on the bigger picture worthless. 

Why build a track when you can simply service the area with express busses using HOV lanes?

Also the WCE is a terrible thing to base your ideas on. It's one of the biggest subsidy per rider out there. And to boot should freight traffic pick up (which it always does) odds are CN or whoever owns the rail may decline to lease the tracks in the future. You can take them to the railroad tribunal but if they have a freight rail glut in the future they would win that.

If we want to improve rail service then we should fix the 100+ year old swing bridge in New West. But to do that not only would you need a new bridge but you would have to raise rails for miles in every direction.

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On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 4:51 PM, inane said:

Well it's already gone from 3 to 3.5 billion and is based on traffic modeling that has consistently been incorrect and a financial model that has been failing with the port mann and golden ears. So, yeah. 

I thought if they expanded capacity cars would just fill it up. Seems to be the main argument against roadway expansion.

Don't look at it as spending 3 billion. Look at it as getting a demand management tool in the form of a toll. Slowly but surely the screen line across the south Fraser is going on.

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On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 1:21 PM, Warhippy said:

Sorry,

 

But you expect smooth flowing traffic?  are they upgrading all of the major routes and corresponding bridges to appropriate sizes to accomodate this?

 

I don't see how this is anything more than a 1950s style solution to a problem that is only going to get worse with the introduction of more bike lanes and more cars on the road.

 

Without increasing the amount of lanes everywhere else and bridge width I don't see this as an alleviation the same way the bridge in kelowna did nothing but highlight how much more work needs to be done.

That you can't do all the work that needs to be done at once is no reason to not start.

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On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 0:33 PM, inane said:

Nope.

All this really calls for is more study. The ultimate answer of the build nothing crowd.

Handy tip! The lower mainland probably has a couple hundred billion in infrastructure deficit. Not enough roads, bridges, transit, pedestrian facilities, cycling facilities. Keep in mind that locally it's competing with things like the fact that were slowly but surely running out of water (and odd problem for a rainforest), or that Victoria has no sewage treatment plant, or that the interior as been calling for improvements to highway 1 for decades that are all competing for the same provincial and federal funding.

The answer isn't more studies. The answer is to start trying to fix things. The longer it's put off, the more it's going to cost to address the problems later, and more we pay in time and immissions for our inferior system.

Handy tip v2.0! The only sure way to address traffic congestion is to have a weaker economy.

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1 hour ago, ronthecivil said:

Nope.

All this really calls for is more study. The ultimate answer of the build nothing crowd.

Handy tip! The lower mainland probably has a couple hundred billion in infrastructure deficit. Not enough roads, bridges, transit, pedestrian facilities, cycling facilities. Keep in mind that locally it's competing with things like the fact that were slowly but surely running out of water (and odd problem for a rainforest), or that Victoria has no sewage treatment plant, or that the interior as been calling for improvements to highway 1 for decades that are all competing for the same provincial and federal funding.

The answer isn't more studies. The answer is to start trying to fix things. The longer it's put off, the more it's going to cost to address the problems later, and more we pay in time and immissions for our inferior system.

Handy tip v2.0! The only sure way to address traffic congestion is to have a weaker economy.

Who says build nothing? 

Or is that just your simplistic knee jerk reaction to those who are opposed to this massive bridge building debacle? I know it is of course because no one has said build nothing. No one. 

Your less study more action plan sounds great though, let's get on building the already approved infrastructure plan. You know, the one that all the mayors agreed to that includes massive construction projects all over the region? That one. Or we could even go and build the BC Liberal plan from years ago, you know this one. http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/14-billion-transit-plan-b-c-liberals-conveniently-forgot/

 

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On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 1:32 PM, inane said:

Who says build nothing? 

Or is that just your simplistic knee jerk reaction to those who are opposed to this massive bridge building debacle? I know it is of course because no one has said build nothing. No one. 

Your less study more action plan sounds great though, let's get on building the already approved infrastructure plan. You know, the one that all the mayors agreed to that includes massive construction projects all over the region? That one. Or we could even go and build the BC Liberal plan from years ago, you know this one. http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/14-billion-transit-plan-b-c-liberals-conveniently-forgot/

 

How is it a debacle? The existing tunnel is at the end of it's service life, heavily congested, and impedes marine traffic up the Fraser River.

Now, is the solution exactly how I would do it? No. I would build a new bridge slightly the east, and then connect it a new north south route in the number 8 road corridor, and then have a new bridge that connects to boundary as well.

So while in my mind it's not ideal, but it's certainly not a debacle, and it's at least something.

And this at least has a built in funding source via the toll. (Might not cover all of it, but will cover at least most of it).

Transit while good is expensive, and tends to require larger operational costs while having less ability to generate revenue.

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Everybody seems to want the solution that is best for them personally.

 I believe if they are going to toll one bridge they should toll all of them. The way it is now is like a reverse lottery. Although I dont mind the toll on the Port Mann. Traffic used to be backed up to 200th sometimes heading into town in the evening rush. Now you dont get any delays at all most days.

 

 Ill bet that they are going to build the huge new bridge. Most expensive option for the win. No amount of studies or public opinion will make one iota of a difference in their choice.

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