rkoshack Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Correction, AV had two killer centers (one of whom was injured). Henrik and Kesler. And he also had Lapierre, who was pretty darn good. Malhotra was very injured. Hodgson wasn't even on the radar for that Cup run. For the season following, Hodgson was played in very sheltered situations, something which helped his personal development, now to Buffalo's benefit. Garrison has played very well. Four goals without a lot of power play time. +8 playing against a lot of the opposition's better lines. Ballard and Booth have turned into projects, mostly due to injury. This is sad as they are both quite good players. On a happy note, neither of them cost the team any significant assets, other than perhaps the 1st which was used to get Ballard. Otherwise, Gillis has given AV guys like Hamhuis, Higgins, Lapierre, Tanev... regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Lindy Ruff hasn't had a hockey team forever. They haven't had any talent there forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 So those 1st and 3rd in the east finishes (in 2006 - 07 and 2009 - 10) were due merely to Ruff coaching the other team into the ice night after night? I would have thought there'd have to be a bit of talent there. And what about the seasons after those two high finishes? After the 2006 season where they finished 1st in the NHL (tied for points with Detroit), they had back to back 10th place finishes in the east. After the 2009 3rd finish, the Sabres dropped to 7th, and then 9th and finally this season they were at 13th. Is Ruff only able to be a great coach once every few years, or did he have some talent on his teams? As to there not being any talent there, there's guys like Miller, who is a pretty highly regarded goalie. Pominville has put up some pretty good numbers, as has Vanek, Stafford, and Roy. There's even some guys on their defense that a lot of people here would dearly love to have on the Canucks' roster. It would appear to me that Ruff just hasn't been able to consistently put it all together season after season (like AV), or if an untimely injury has come up, then Ruff (and perhaps the Buffalo management) haven't been able to adjust to the situation (like AV and Gillis). regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 So any time you fire a coach, whose contract has been extended or signed by the GM, you must also fire the GM? ? ? Gonna be a lot of turnover in NHL upper management... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Well, the point being made, and perhaps it escaped you, is that Gillis has had opportunites in the past to get rid of AV (fire AV when he took over the team, not extend his contract, etc), and he hasn't done it. Right? ? ? This says to me that Gillis is in favour of how AV has been, and currently is running this team. So if you don't like the job which AV is doing then you have to blame Gillis as he is the guy who keeps extending AV's contract. Is that clear? ? ? AV is coaching in a style which Gillis wants. If Gillis didn't like how things were going, there would likely be a meeting. In this meeting, Gillis would explain to AV that there had to be changes made in how AV coached the team, or there would be a change in the coach. From what the various critics of AV's coaching style have to say (and there are some valid points in what they say), does it look like AV has changed up his ways? I think these critics would say that the answer is no. This leads me to believe that Gillis has not made any such demands on AV. Maybe there should be a high turnover in the management of NHL teams, but Vancouver isn't a place where it will happen any time soon. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Lidstrom retired and Stuart left plus all of the injuries on there back end. They've lost their best 2 defenceman and haven't replaced them with anyone. They were hopping to get Suter or Webber and failed at that. We lost Salo and replaced him with Garrisson. I'd like to see the Canucks lose the Sedins and see how we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Well, the point being made, and perhaps it escaped you, is that Gillis has had opportunites in the past to get rid of AV (fire AV when he took over the team, not extend his contract, etc), and he hasn't done it. Right? ? ? This says to me that Gillis is in favour of how AV has been, and currently is running this team. So if you don't like the job which AV is doing then you have to blame Gillis as he is the guy who keeps extending AV's contract. Is that clear? ? ? AV is coaching in a style which Gillis wants. If Gillis didn't like how things were going, there would likely be a meeting. In this meeting, Gillis would explain to AV that there had to be changes made in how AV coached the team, or there would be a change in the coach. From what the various critics of AV's coaching style have to say (and there are some valid points in what they say), does it look like AV has changed up his ways? I think these critics would say that the answer is no. This leads me to believe that Gillis has not made any such demands on AV. Maybe there should be a high turnover in the management of NHL teams, but Vancouver isn't a place where it will happen any time soon. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I would wait till the end of the season then fire AV. Why wait? Because although I believe AV is making bad decisions and isn't getting effort out of the players he does have, I also think Gillis hasn't assembled a good team around the core players. The fact that we still have both Lou and Schneider is incredible. So I would wait till season's end, hire a new coach ( a younger coach, not just another retread) give Gillis a very short leash to grow some balls and make some deals....REAL deals. Then if the team doesn't turn it around quickly, fire Gillis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think teams win from the goal out. Teams are getting too many great scoring chances in fron of our goalies. Bowness is our defensive coach and unless he can figure out our defensive woes. or get the players buying into his system..he should be first coach to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think teams win from the goal out. Teams are getting too many great scoring chances in fron of our goalies. Bowness is our defensive coach and unless he can figure out our defensive woes. or get the players buying into his system..he should be first coach to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think Kassian should be playing in a spot where he can succeed not on a 3rd line. He looked good with the twins. Schroeder obviously has some skill set but we all feel he's too small at centre, that's great, so why not use him on the wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I don't know what AV is doing not having Garrison out there for more 1st unit PP time. What's the point of having that big shot if you're not going to use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ok so AV won't use players Gillis gives him ? Then AV should be fired. If Edler is plaing with a back problem then AV should be fired. If Gillis lets all this go the owner should fire Gillis. If the owner doesn't fire Gillis the fans should not go to the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Didn't they lose Briere and Drury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yup, good observation. This speaks to my point about Buffalo having had some talent in Ruff's time with the team. When he had a stacked team he was a great coach. When the talent with which he had to work diminished, he became a less than great coach. Funny how that happens. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 I believe the observation about Kassian was, while he was doing good with the Sedins, the Sedins were not doing good with Kassian. Maybe (hopefully) this will change as time goes on. I thought Schroeder has been tried at wing, last season down in Chicago. To my recollection, the results were not good. Hopefully he can expand his game, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The point did not escape me. Setting aside the snide manner of the reply, the moment at which Mike Gillis fires AV, whether or not he has extended him in the past, he will have proven that he is no longer approving of the manner in which AV runs the team. Thus, it does not automatically follow that Gillis must also be fired along with AV. He would have obviously demonstrated a changed perspective on AV's effectiveness. Regards, K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yup, good observation. This speaks to my point about Buffalo having had some talent in Ruff's time with the team. When he had a stacked team he was a great coach. When the talent with which he had to work diminished, he became a less than great coach. Funny how that happens. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 However, you are ignoring the fact that AV is coaching in a style which AV wants. As smurf noted, AV is a defense first kind of coach. When Gillis took over the team he impressed on AV his desire to go with a more offensive approach. So, if anyone doesn't like how AV is coaching the team, then they have to lay some of the blame on Gillis' doorstep. regards, G. PS - I give snide for snide. PPS - I have that "regards" thing copyrighted. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whytelight Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The other problem with AV is his lack of being able to groom our young talent. If we don't get Ruff I'd be very dissapointed but another guy I'd consider is Crawford. He has a real team here that he can coach. He won a cup with the Avalanche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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