Disputing a TransLink ticket

[WonderTwinPowers]

Question, say you have no ticket or money to buy one. If you stood by the machines until someone bought a ticket and left their receipt there (happens quite a bit) and you take the receipt and get on the train would that receipt act as a proof of payment? Me and my Forman were wondering this the other day as we were boarding the skytrain

[-DLC-]

Just dont pay it, the tickets aren't enforced because they don't have the authority to do so.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...link-fines.html

As well the ticket acts as fare for the day so no you shouldn't have validated your pass after.

The ticket has to be date/time stamped or it isn't "fare for the day"....at that point, it's fare for any day and people could simply reuse them over and over...which is why you must "validate" the ticket.

Also:

Fare Infractions

If you were caught in a Fare Paid Zone without proof of payment and received a fare infraction ticket, you can pay your ticket online, by mail or in person.

What happens if you don't pay your ticket?

• Your ticket may be sent to a collection agency.
  
• You may not be able to obtain or renew your driver's licence or your vehicle insurance.
  
• On the 180th day after the ticket was issued (except as set out in the fare collection bylaw) your fine will go up by $40.
  
• On the 366th day after the ticket was issued your fine will go up by $60.
  

Use the links below to find out how to pay or dispute your ticket, or find out more in the FAQ section.Did you receive a fare infraction ticket before September 4, 2012?

Tickets issued before September 4, 2012 are provincial offenses, and the Province of BC will pursue payment. Pay or dispute these tickets through ICBC.

That was bad info you gave, with an old link...they have changed things in order to have some leverage in collecting on the fines.

[Common sense]

Question, say you have no ticket or money to buy one. If you stood by the machines until someone bought a ticket and left their receipt there (happens quite a bit) and you take the receipt and get on the train would that receipt act as a proof of payment? Me and my Forman were wondering this the other day as we were boarding the skytrain

The receipt would not act as valid proof of payment. Only the bus pass/month pass would count.

[McMillan]

I can't believe how many of you complain after getting a ticket. "I only went over one stop" "I didn't know to validate my fare" Give me a break. You stole a service. Its pretty black and white. If you went to a store and bought a candy bar but took two is that not stealing too then? Can you buy one litre of milk and take four? Grow up, pay the correct fare or pay the bloody fine.

[-DLC-]

The fine (especially for a first time offender) is ridiculous. People make mistakes - it shouldn't cost $173. First time should be a warning, second - $50 and then jump to $173.00.

My son tried to validate his but the machine was broken - they didn't care/gave him a ticket anyhow. Is that fair? You'd better believe he fought it, so perhaps the system needs to be fair before people just "pay up".

And maybe they shouldn't have made a system that allowed for peope to "steal" from it? In this day and age, it's a ridiculous set up but, just like red light cameras, it's not about enforcing rules it's a cash grab, nothing more.

[Ghostsof1915]

I went to the Justice Institute, and one of my classes was to visit provincial court. We sat in one of the smaller court room, with a very nice, and articulate judge. A BCIT student was there disputing a transit ticket. The girl said she was late for class, was tired from work and studying but admitted she left her monthly pass at home. The transit cop stated she was caught not paying her fare and ticketed, and left it to the judge for the "sentencing".

The judge asked the girl a simple question. When you go to Starbucks to get coffee do you not check to see if you have your purse or wallet to make sure you have either cash/debit or some way to pay? She understood the analogy. He asked her how much was her income, and she stated she was on student loans and worked part time. The Judge being nice asked her if she could afford to pay $25? She said yes, so he lowered the fine.

We spoke with the Judge afterwords, (as that was his last case before lunch) and I was impressed with how he handled it, and I liked the fact he pointed out she was in the wrong, but was was understanding of the girl's situation when it came down to the fine.

Also unpaid tickets will go to a collections agency. Just because there's a backlog of unpaid fines doesn't mean it goes away.

The bottom line is everyone who doesn't pay their fare is part of the reason there's never enough funding for transit. Yes we have lousy planning for transit in the lower mainland. But freeloading doesn't make anything better.

[kazin!]

Hopefully the new gates will actually make a difference. Honour system in 2013...yep.

[stonecoldstevebernier]

I can't believe how many of you complain after getting a ticket. "I only went over one stop" "I didn't know to validate my fare" Give me a break. You stole a service. Its pretty black and white. If you went to a store and bought a candy bar but took two is that not stealing too then? Can you buy one litre of milk and take four? Grow up, pay the correct fare or pay the bloody fine.

There's no need to be so abrasive. $173 for an honest mistake is flat out ridiculous - or do you think somebody who accidentally takes a second candy bar worth $1 should be fined $173? He already paid for the ticket after all, there's a big difference between that and someone who intentionally rides without a ticket. If you're so worked up about "stealing a service" then you can pay it for him (and maybe the Translink execs can take a cut to their overblown taxpayer-funded salaries and pensions while we're at it).

[Lancaster]

Hopefully the new gates will actually make a difference. Honour system in 2013...yep.

The gates don't have guards posted there. Probably not too hard for some folks wanting a free ride by just climbing over the gates.

[-DLC-]

I went to the Justice Institute, and one of my classes was to visit provincial court. We sat in one of the smaller court room, with a very nice, and articulate judge. A BCIT student was there disputing a transit ticket. The girl said she was late for class, was tired from work and studying but admitted she left her monthly pass at home. The transit cop stated she was caught not paying her fare and ticketed, and left it to the judge for the "sentencing".

The judge asked the girl a simple question. When you go to Starbucks to get coffee do you not check to see if you have your purse or wallet to make sure you have either cash/debit or some way to pay? She understood the analogy. He asked her how much was her income, and she stated she was on student loans and worked part time. The Judge being nice asked her if she could afford to pay $25? She said yes, so he lowered the fine.

We spoke with the Judge afterwords, (as that was his last case before lunch) and I was impressed with how he handled it, and I liked the fact he pointed out she was in the wrong, but was was understanding of the girl's situation when it came down to the fine.

Also unpaid tickets will go to a collections agency. Just because there's a backlog of unpaid fines doesn't mean it goes away.

The bottom line is everyone who doesn't pay their fare is part of the reason there's never enough funding for transit. Yes we have lousy planning for transit in the lower mainland. But freeloading doesn't make anything better.

I agree with everything except the last part. They could cut back a little on the salaries and perks that their employees and CEO get. I believe TP get close to $80/hour. The CEO makes $400,000.00 a year, which is more than any other municipal government in Metro Vancouver. That's over $1,100.00 every single day. A little much I'd say.

[McMillan]

There's no need to be so abrasive. $173 for an honest mistake is flat out ridiculous - or do you think somebody who accidentally takes a second candy bar worth $1 should be fined $173? He already paid for the ticket after all, there's a big difference between that and someone who intentionally rides without a ticket. If you're so worked up about "stealing a service" then you can pay it for him (and maybe the Translink execs can take a cut to their overblown taxpayer-funded salaries and pensions while we're at it).

So you believe that $173 fine for stealing a service is too much. I say its not enough. If it were too much people wouldn't steal the service regularly because they'd be worried about getting the fine but clearly they're not. You seem to feel its fine that this individual and others have stolen. I don't. If I don't have the money for something I don't get that product or service. It's a fine. It's not a criminal record, it's not jail time. It's a fine meant as a deterrent and penalty for using a service without paying for it. Learn to act like an adult and pay for the goods and services you use or accept the fines.

[-DLC-]

But you're acting like judge and jury....."stealing" would incidate a deliberate action and, in some cases, it is a simple mistake. So it's a bit harsh in those cases. There needs to be a warning system that allows for that. This will deter some from using Transit and the goal should be to encourage riders.

And, I should add that maybe this service should have some provision other than "after the fact" to ensure riders who board have paid? Like have the damn TP there BEFORE, not after? Would make sense to me. It's a cash grab, that's all...that's why they do it on a penalty basis vs "making sure". They get a lot more catching a rider who hasn't paid ($173) than demanding someone does pay before entering (<$3.00).

It's a ridiculous system.

How about this?...how about we fine Translink when their machinery is broken, causing delay to riders as in the case of my son? Because he frantically had to run around, searching for a way to validate the ticket he had, in fact, pre-purchased? Made him late for a job interview...so where's the penalty in that?

Get those overpaid, lazy ass TP to actually do something useful and stand at the platform as people board, not as they're exiting.

[g_bassi13]

But you're acting like judge and jury....."stealing" would incidate a deliberate action and, in some cases, it is a simple mistake. So it's a bit harsh in those cases. There needs to be a warning system that allows for that. This will deter some from using Transit and the goal should be to encourage riders.

Precisely this. To be stamped with something like a $173 fine right off the bat like that on a potentially honest mistake is just ridiculous.

[The Colt 45s]

It is your responsibility to validate your ticket. Even if it was just a mistake, you are skipping on the fare. Hypothetically you could ride forever riding for free on a non validated prepaid fare. For the sake of the taxpayers who have to subsidize this monstrousity, pay your fine. You were caught redhanded, pay your fine.

[The Colt 45s]

Precisely this. To be stamped with something like a $173 fine right off the bat like that on a potentially honest mistake is just ridiculous.

Honest mistake, how are the Translink police supposed to determine that? Heck, he could have been riding for months for free and just got caught now. Is that fair to the rest of us who have to pay these high taxes to subsidize it? At the end of the day it is his responsibility to have his ticket validated.

[McMillan]

But you're acting like judge and jury....."stealing" would incidate a deliberate action and, in some cases, it is a simple mistake. So it's a bit harsh in those cases. There needs to be a warning system that allows for that. This will deter some from using Transit and the goal should be to encourage riders.

And, I should add that maybe this service should have some provision other than "after the fact" to ensure riders who board have paid? Like have the damn TP there BEFORE, not after? Would make sense to me. It's a cash grab, that's all...that's why they do it on a penalty basis vs "making sure". They get a lot more catching a rider who hasn't paid ($173) than demanding someone does pay before entering (<$3.00).

It's a ridiculous system.

How about this?...how about we fine Translink when their machinery is broken, causing delay to riders as in the case of my son? Because he frantically had to run around, searching for a way to validate the ticket he had, in fact, pre-purchased? Made him late for a job interview...so where's the penalty in that?

Get those overpaid, lazy ass TP to actually do something useful and stand at the platform as people board, not as they're exiting.

By your logic one could go into a restaurant, eat, then leave and call it an honest mistake. Give me a break. The people who don't validate their fare know full well what they're doing. As for your son, yes its an irritant but its not hard to fix. Its called walk to the bus loop which is at every skytrain stop step on the bus, validate and get off.

Just because the system is easy to cheat doesn't make it OK to steal from it. Its a pretty low level of morals if thats the way you view it. Also whenever anyone steals from Translink it costs you money. Unless of course you like translink going after your property taxes and increasing gas taxes and so forth.

Relatively shortly we will have turnstiles at every station. I'll be very happy when all these freeloaders are kept off the trains and realize that public transit isn't free.

[-DLC-]

By your logic one could go into a restaurant, eat, then leave and call it an honest mistake. Give me a break. The people who don't validate their fare know full well what they're doing. As for your son, yes its an irritant but its not hard to fix. Its called walk to the bus loop which is at every skytrain stop step on the bus, validate and get off.

Just because the system is easy to cheat doesn't make it OK to steal from it. Its a pretty low level of morals if thats the way you view it. Also whenever anyone steals from Translink it costs you money. Unless of course you like translink going after your property taxes and increasing gas taxes and so forth.

Relatively shortly we will have turnstiles at every station. I'll be very happy when all these freeloaders are kept off the trains and realize that public transit isn't free.

Your suggestion about my son is ridiculous...he had a scheduled appointment and it was not his fault that the Translink validating machine was out of service. Absolutely disagree with you...walk to the bus loop? Where do you think we live, Cache Creek? The "bus loop" could be miles away...what a silly statement. So you're suggesting wait at a bus stop, validate, get off? Except that some of the hurried bus drivers would likely drive away before you have opportunity to. Absolutely inappropriate to suggest this a solution.

If that same restaurant gets my order wrong and runs out of ingredients, are you also suggesting I should walk to the corner store, buy fresh ingredients and bring them back so they can cook them? If Translink demands payment at boarding then their machines have to be in order at all times...when they're not - it's a no fault situation for riders. Maybe they have to come up with something new (again, like lowering some of the ridiculous wages/pensions and using the $$ for maintenance and upkeep?).

One of the reasons people buy "FareSavers" is for convenience...so no to having to trapse all over trying to validate a ticket. Surrey Central at night isn't someplace you want to have to go "looking" for something if you don't have to. It puts riders at risk in those situations and your suggestion isn't the answer.

And before Translink "goes after more taxes" why have you not addressed the salaries I've referred to? How about look there first? Unless, of course, you're one of them?

[-DLC-]

Honest mistake, how are the Translink police supposed to determine that? Heck, he could have been riding for months for free and just got caught now. Is that fair to the rest of us who have to pay these high taxes to subsidize it? At the end of the day it is his responsibility to have his ticket validated.

If he was "riding for free for months" then the lazy TP haven't been doing their jobs and the system is to blame.

Get a system that doesn't allow for this. And have appropriate fines that aren't 65 times the cost of the fare. There is no excuse for that.

[Hyzer]

I agree with everything except the last part. They could cut back a little on the salaries and perks that their employees and CEO get. I believe TP get close to $80/hour. The CEO makes $400,000.00 a year, which is more than any other municipal government in Metro Vancouver. That's over $1,100.00 every single day. A little much I'd say.

I believe he just got a raise recently too. Was either him or one of the Ferry guys, can't remember.

[Common sense]

If he was "riding for free for months" then the lazy TP haven't been doing their jobs and the system is to blame.

Get a system that doesn't allow for this. And have appropriate fines that aren't 65 times the cost of the fare. There is no excuse for that.

The system is being put into place, starting Sept 2013 with the Compass cards.

As for the fine, I have no problem with it. If the fine was the cost of a 3-zone adult pass ($5.50), where's the deterrent in making people second-guess their decision to jump the fare? The fact that it's 65x the cost of the fare means hopefully in those 65 times of fare-jumping, there will be a Transit Police somewhere on the line (especially at higher-traffic places like Marine Dr Stn, Waterfront, Broadway/Commercial, Broadway/City Hall, and others)

If the fine for speeding 40km over the limit was unreasonably inexpensive that it would not act as a deterrent, when what's to stop me from going 90 in a 50?