Disputing a TransLink ticket

[McMillan]

Your suggestion about my son is ridiculous...he had a scheduled appointment and it was not his fault that the Translink validating machine was out of service. Absolutely disagree with you...walk to the bus loop? Where do you think we live, Cache Creek? The "bus loop" could be miles away...what a silly statement. So you're suggesting wait at a bus stop, validate, get off? Except that some of the hurried bus drivers would likely drive away before you have opportunity to. Absolutely inappropriate to suggest this a solution.

If that same restaurant gets my order wrong and runs out of ingredients, are you also suggesting I should walk to the corner store, buy fresh ingredients and bring them back so they can cook them? If Translink demands payment at boarding then their machines have to be in order at all times...when they're not - it's a no fault situation for riders. Maybe they have to come up with something new (again, like lowering some of the ridiculous wages/pensions and using the $$ for maintenance and upkeep?).

One of the reasons people buy "FareSavers" is for convenience...so no to having to trapse all over trying to validate a ticket. Surrey Central at night isn't someplace you want to have to go "looking" for something if you don't have to. It puts riders at risk in those situations and your suggestion isn't the answer.

And before Translink "goes after more taxes" why have you not addressed the salaries I've referred to? How about look there first? Unless, of course, you're one of them?

I haven't addressed the CEO wages because frankly I don't care. They're not THAT outrageous. A quick google search will tell you the average doctor makes about $307,000 (yes expenses do come out of that) but the end of the day that's an average and top end is going to be much much higher. So is $400,000 for a CEO of a public transportation system really out of line? Not overly.

And as for your son and this bus loop being SO far away. Its the skytrain, every bloody station has a loop and if its Surrey Central then there isn't a time in the day that transit runs in which a quick run down the steps won't turn into a bus sitting at the loop. If he was going to be late for his interview thats his fault for not allowing time in case of anything occurring that would cause him to be late.

[-DLC-]

What a crock....he'd only be late if he had to run around looking for a way to validate his ticket and missed the train (that led to other connections he had to make). And, again, if the bus driver is in a hurry, he may pull away after validating...then what?

And if the transportation system is so poorly run that people are evading fares and there's no way to stop that, then he's likely overpaid. Probably should have accounted for that and had turnstiles in from the get go?

You're overly concerned about people not paying a $2.75 fare and are comparing them to thieves and low lifes however you're unconcerned about a CEO of a system that's lacking and is constantly crying out for more funding who's making more than doctors who perform life saving surgery? OK, makes sense.

[McMillan]

What a crock....he'd only be late if he had to run around looking for a way to validate his ticket and missed the train (that led to other connections he had to make). And, again, if the bus driver is in a hurry, he may pull away after validating...then what?

And if the transportation system is so poorly run that people are evading fares and there's no way to stop that, then he's likely overpaid. Probably should have accounted for that and had turnstiles in from the get go?

You're overly concerned about people not paying a $2.75 fare and are comparing them to thieves and low lifes however you're unconcerned about a CEO of a system that's lacking and is constantly crying out for more funding who's making more than doctors who perform life saving surgery? OK, makes sense.

He shouldn't be scheduling his trip for an interview in perfect conditions crap happens its best to prepare for it. And the current CEO has absolutely NOTHING to do with turnstiles not being installed from the time the skytrain was built since that was well over 20 years ago. He is however building them now. And its a crock that your son couldn't find a bus to validate his fare at Surrey Central. At any time there is 3 or 4 buses waiting to load before they leave, he could have easily had it done.

While translink is far from perfect we have a great system. Try going somewhere where they don't have a good system and try calling Vancouver's bad. I mean we could trade places with Calgary I'm sure they'd love our system.

[canucks.brad]

The thing is you didn't have a validated ticket, regardless of you forgetting or not. So it is 100% your fault for not figuring it out yourself. Fine stands. Sorry. Cause in the end, your responsible for figuring this out. So yes, you are 100% at fault.

A tad harsh. Yes rules are rules, but people make honest mistakes...especially those not used to the system. It sucks because it seems the majority of the time, people actually do not know the rules/that they have to activate the ticket. If it is the first time using a ticket validator, one may thing that once you are finished your ride...you deposit the ticket somewhere. It honestly is a very easy thing to mess up. Translink signage is terrible, instructions are non-existant, and their fine for first time offenders at $173.00 is ridiculous.

[-DLC-]

He shouldn't be scheduling his trip for an interview in perfect conditions crap happens its best to prepare for it. And the current CEO has absolutely NOTHING to do with turnstiles not being installed from the time the skytrain was built since that was well over 20 years ago. He is however building them now. And its a crock that your son couldn't find a bus to validate his fare at Surrey Central. At any time there is 3 or 4 buses waiting to load before they leave, he could have easily had it done.

While translink is far from perfect we have a great system. Try going somewhere where they don't have a good system and try calling Vancouver's bad. I mean we could trade places with Calgary I'm sure they'd love our system.

So, by that token, shouldn't the CEO of Translink have "prepared for" fare evaders during his decade plus involvement?

Know what's a crock?....you getting worked up over someone forgetting to validate $2.10 (the FareSaver ticket price) yet supporting Fat Cats who make far too much money for doing far too little. A great system? Is that why you can't catch a bus in the wee hours....the time they're likely needed most? If it was a great system, there wouldn't be opportunity for fare evasion (or at least not so damn easy). But it costs money to make sure people pay...add to that that it makes money if you slap them with ridiculous fines and then sit back with the proceeds. Gee, I wonder what this is all about?

I didn't say he couldn't find a bus to validate his ticket...I said he shouldn't have to. So save it.

You're barking up the wrong tree. And, by the way, remember making this comment not long ago?:

How would you like to get arrested for some silly reason such as jay walking

So jay walking penalties are silly? But forgetting to validate a bus ticket isn't?

Picking and choosing doesn't help your case. People cause accidents and are hit because of jaywalking. Last time I checked, no one was harmed because a $2.10 fare didn't get paid. So you just lost all credibility.

[Common sense]

A tad harsh. Yes rules are rules, but people make honest mistakes...especially those not used to the system. It sucks because it seems the majority of the time, people actually do not know the rules/that they have to activate the ticket. If it is the first time using a ticket validator, one may thing that once you are finished your ride...you deposit the ticket somewhere. It honestly is a very easy thing to mess up. Translink signage is terrible, instructions are non-existant, and their fine for first time offenders at $173.00 is ridiculous.

Here's the wording on the Faresaver package:

"ON THE SEABUS AND SKITRAIN - Validate ticket with time and date stamp by inserting into ticket validator in the stations and terminals PRIOR to entering the Fare Paid Zone. Keep validated ticket for duration of trip. Ticket may be validated only once."

It looks like the rules are written clearly on the faresaver package. As for signage determining where the Fare Paid Zone begins, I turn to various images:

At Broadway/Commercial

At Broadway/City Hall

At Granville Station

Signage for where the Fare Paid Zone is there, and highlighted both on the ground and in the air. When using an unfamiliar system, one should be vigilant as to not break the law.

[-DLC-]

It's just ridiculous that they have it so accessible....what if someone is lost and not even using the system but wanders into the "Fare Paid Zone"? Not everyone walks around reading every bit of signage.

It's set up (like the red light cameras) as a cash grab, plain and simple.

You make it sound like people who forget to validate a ticket (not pay - as they clearly have paid for it) - are criminals. Pick you battles.

[Common sense]

It's just ridiculous that they have it so accessible....what if someone is lost and not even using the system but wanders into the "Fare Paid Zone"? Not everyone walks around reading every bit of signage.

It's set up (like the red light cameras) as a cash grab, plain and simple.

You make it sound like people who forget to validate a ticket (not pay - as they clearly have paid for it) - are criminals. Pick you battles.

It's certainly unfortunate that one is lost, but searching for one's bearings would (hopefully) mean being more vigilant in signage and instructions than the average commuter...at least that's my experience with other cities' metro systems such as the MTA in New York, HK's MTR, or Seattle's light rail system.

I'll ask this - what more do respondents here want? Clear-cut signage is there for users; instructions on how to pay are readily accessible; the only thing I can think of is someone actually guiding you through the fare payment process, and at least for the Canada Line, that's on the shoulders of ProTrans to pony up the cash for more green shirt attendants.

[Captain Bob]

Here's the wording on the Faresaver package:

"ON THE SEABUS AND SKITRAIN - Validate ticket with time and date stamp by inserting into ticket validator in the stations and terminals PRIOR to entering the Fare Paid Zone. Keep validated ticket for duration of trip. Ticket may be validated only once."

It looks like the rules are written clearly on the faresaver package. As for signage determining where the Fare Paid Zone begins, I turn to various images:

Signage for where the Fare Paid Zone is there, and highlighted both on the ground and in the air. When using an unfamiliar system, one should be vigilant as to not break the law.

I have to agree. Sure there will be people who legitimately don't know, but there will be a lot more who scam the system. People ready with that excuse for when they are finally caught. The fare gates will hopefully reduce the amount of fare evaders.

[-DLC-]

Throwing in a "I've been everywhere" doesn't win your case...I don't give a damn what they do elsewhere.

I'm thinking of my Mother in Law, who is losing her bearings. There are people who may end up there very innocently, as you can clearly see, there are shops situated at the location. We can't afford to have ropes like they do at theatres? To clearly make visible the "NO areas"?

It's set up to trap catch people because it's a lucrative business to do so.

I'd argue that, until I board that damn thing, I don't have to have any proof of purchase because I'm not using the system, I just accidentally stood in the wrong spot. Your second picture certainly leaves room for that.

Anyhow, I NEVER avoid paying but have had trouble navigating through the crowd, trying to figure out where to do what. Where's Waldo style. And I don't buy for a second that those fines are justified. Repeat offenders? - yes....but then that takes work. To actually keep track.

[Common sense]

Throwing in a "I've been everywhere" doesn't win your case...I don't give a damn what they do elsewhere.

I'm thinking of my Mother in Law, who is losing her bearings. There are people who may end up there very innocently, as you can clearly see, there are shops situated at the location. We can't afford to have ropes like they do at theatres? To clearly make visible the "NO areas"?

It's set up to trap catch people because it's a lucrative business to do so.

I'd argue that, until I board that damn thing, I don't have to have any proof of purchase because I'm not using the system, I just accidentally stood in the wrong spot. Your second picture certainly leaves room for that.

Or as Captain Bob alluded to, there's a lot more scammers than legitimate lost people on Translink property. I understand how someone with limited English skills could end up on the wrong side of the Fare Paid Zone signs, but this system was set up to deter scammers, not the lost.

The setting of the Jugo Juice on Broadway/City Hall is certainly not ideal, but I would argue that the rest of the stops along Skytrain/Canada Line have a clear-cut point where one is expected to have proof of purchase. The reason as to why the platform is also fare paid zone and not just the trains itself is because one could just jump between northbound/southbound trains as they see for to avoid any Transit Police.

[Kamero89]

well I always pay, but I suppose if you get caught by a Translink employee, you could just run. They have no actual legal authority to detain you.

[hudson bay rules]

I have little to no sympathy.

It's pretty obvious one should validate a ticket and if they happen to be confused then the ticket inspector is more likely to be helpful than punitive.The inspectors can usually tell a bs story from a real one IME. The fact that you are using a faresaver suggest you are familiar with the system and should know better.Dispute it all you want but being ignorant of the rules is not a defence that is likely to win.

[-DLC-]

I have little to no sympathy.

It's pretty obvious one should validate a ticket and if they happen to be confused then the ticket inspector is more likely to be helpful than punitive.The inspectors can usually tell a bs story from a real one IME. The fact that you are using a faresaver suggest you are familiar with the system and should know better.Dispute it all you want but being ignorant of the rules is not a defence that is likely to win.

There is no "ticket inspector" that can help clarify things...that's the problem. Transit police generally nab people as they're departing and couldn't care less if you have something to say. It's not set up to be very user friendly.

[hudson bay rules]

same/same AFAIC

They see people all day long and can usually tell the diff between a good story and a kid with an invalidated faresaver who should know better.They have the power to give out warnings and do so all the time.

[Opmac]

I agree with everything except the last part. They could cut back a little on the salaries and perks that their employees and CEO get. I believe TP get close to $80/hour. The CEO makes $400,000.00 a year, which is more than any other municipal government in Metro Vancouver. That's over $1,100.00 every single day. A little much I'd say.

I see you read this, http://www.vancouversun.com/business/TransLink+head+Jarvis+tops+salary+rankings+local+government/8180635/story.html

If you look at the actual database, there are a number of public sector employees that make way more Ian Jarvis.

It bothers me how everybody constantly regurgitate the Canadian Taxpayer Federation's lies about TransLink even though they do a good job:

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2013/05/what-does-1-3-billion-and-2-75-buy-you-from-translink-more-than-you-think/

[Common sense]

well I always pay, but I suppose if you get caught by a Translink employee, you could just run. They have no actual legal authority to detain you.

If it's a Translink employee, sure, but what if it's a Transit police officer who has the same policing rights as any VPD officer?

[Offensive Threat]

argueing that you made an honest mistake to a judge is the same as just saying "Im guilty". They hear it all day every day. Everybody has nothing but excuses. If you are a student or new to the workforce or underemployed you can plead hardship with the judge and hopefully get the ticket reduced. If its legit it often works.

Try it in Seattle. Pay in 30 days or the fine doubles. After 90 days a bench warrant is issued for your arrest. not subtle but effective.

[Opmac]

If it's a Translink employee, sure, but what if it's a Transit police officer who has the same policing rights as any VPD officer?

Transit Security can detain and issue tickets as well.

[\/ijay]

The ticket has to be date/time stamped or it isn't "fare for the day"....at that point, it's fare for any day and people could simply reuse them over and over...which is why you must "validate" the ticket.

Also:

That was bad info you gave, with an old link...they have changed things in order to have some leverage in collecting on the fines.

My apologies, my dad worked for translink but he quit 3-4 years ago hence the dated info.