Mike Gillis is Destroying the Vancouver Canucks

[Primal Optimist]

MG is a blatant failure.

[73 Percent]

is there a different canuck fan forum that someone would like to suggest. cdc is getting a tad annoying

[-DLC-]

Deb,

Can you argue, in all honesty, and rationality, that this team is better than it was in 2011?

Isn't a GM's job / role to improve his team and get it closer to a cup?

I have given you a list of clear/blantant bad decisions that I think may hockey fans can really say have not been good decisions by Gillis. People on here call it hindsight, they find excuses etc, but it doesn't change the fact that bad decision after bad decision has been made, and those have led to further bad decisions.

That's the funny thing about business, decisions made, alter a path. They limit future actions, or open doors to others. Gillis has made so many bad decisions in the past, that he has painted himself into a corner.

The playoffs were not sold out by the way.

If your definition of a successful team is one that charges alot for customers to watch a team that bows out in the first round, well you must have an ownership in Orca Bay, and congrats to you, I don't have that luxury. There is a reason the rest of the NHL is laughing at Vancouver right now.

In addition, I take a great deal of offense to the comment about "freaking out"

I am not freaking out, I stated my view on errors made by the GM of a team I have followed for 25 years. If you disagree with my statements, I suggest that you provide points that debate those statements.

From what I can see, calling someone a 'freak out' which is effectively what you called me, simply shows you cannot debate what I have suggested as backup to my viewpoint, as they are facts. I would have expected someone who is a moderator to have a bit more of a thoughtful response than what you just provided.

"Some" of the fans freak out. It wasn't pinpointed directly at you...

And I'm challenging what qualifies you to decide if they're errors or not.

I just know we're not a disaster as some would claim. Put it this way, the eventual SC Champion Blackhawks were tough to beat...heading into the playoffs in April, there were only 3 teams that beat them and two of those were in a shoot out. Vancouver was the only team to beat them quite handily and convincingly. I don't think we're that bad and the adjustments being made are more mentally adjusting to what needs to be done (by the team) than actually changing a bunch of personnel. This experience they're gaining as they do grow older is pretty invaluable and most who do have the luxury of hindsight in their discussion are also relying on crystal balls to see the future and that their ideas are guaranteed as better. They're not. That's my point.

[In the Slot]

And yet during his tenure, which began in April 2008 and is ongoing;

The Canucks have finished 1st in the Division all five seasons, fact.

They have won the President's Trophy twice, fact.

They have gone to the Stanley Cup Finals game 7, fact. (*don't let this one slip by you: this has only happened once before in Canuck history and the players who lost that game are HEROES to our City/Fans.)

They have won 225 regular season games and lost in regulation just 111 times over that span. A 2 to 1 win ratio.

They have made the playoffs in all five years, a feat only bested twice in team history,

So, while yeah we have rotated a lot of bottom sixers in and out trying to tweak the lineup to our advantage, and we all liked various players that populated the bottom line over the last few years, but in the end, I will take MG with his warts and all and the team we have today, and have had in every year since he got here, and the team he will put on the ice this season and likely the team he will compile for next season over a replacement GM any day.

[In the Slot]

"Some" of the fans freak out. It wasn't pinpointed directly at you...

And I'm challenging what qualifies you to decide if they're errors or not.

I just know we're not a disaster as some would claim. Put it this way, the eventual SC Champion Blackhawks were tough to beat...heading into the playoffs in April, there were only 3 teams that beat them and two of those were in a shoot out. Vancouver was the only team to beat them quite handily and convincingly. I don't think we're that bad and the adjustments being made are more mentally adjusting to what needs to be done (by the team) than actually changing a bunch of personnel. This experience they're gaining as they do grow older is pretty invaluable and most who do have the luxury of hindsight in their discussion are also relying on crystal balls to see the future and that their ideas are guaranteed as better. They're not. That's my point.

[Primal Optimist]

Can you argue, in all honesty, and rationality, that this team is better than it was in 2011?

it doesn't change the fact that bad decision after bad decision has been made, and those have led to further bad decisions.

[Super_Canuck]

I've been a critic of MG for a very long time, pretty much since he offered Sundin a massive deal and signed Demitra (RIP) to a lot more money then he deserved. Most people didn't see his shortcomings because we were winning before. Fans thought he was the best gm ever eventhough he didn't have much to do with our success on the ice.

Now having said that and while I agree with everything you said, all your points have previously been discussed on here. Your post isn't original, we are all aware of what gillis has or hasn't done

[Primal Optimist]

giving Gillis credit for a team he didn't build is silly

[Primal Optimist]

I've been a critic of MG for a very long time, pretty much since he offered Sundin a massive deal and signed Demitra (RIP) to a lot more money then he deserved. Most people didn't see his shortcomings because we were winning before. Fans thought he was the best gm ever eventhough he didn't have much to do with our success on the ice.

Now having said that and while I agree with everything you said, all your points have previously been discussed on here. Your post isn't original, we are all aware of what gillis has or hasn't done

[-DLC-]

I'd argue 2 first round exits with two wins in their last 11 playoff games, while spending to the cap suggests quite strongly that errors have been made.

That's the lazy, in a nutshell response that people look for, but it's not that simple and I tend to look at what may have contributed to that in an overall picture.

There was a huge deflation after what went down with Boston...that was a mental hurdle that was obviously hard to overcome. When you have the wind knocked out of you like that, it's hard to get back up there again...so the motivation following that just hasn't been there as a period of "recovery" has almost had to happen. The hunger and drive to immediately propel themselves to that state again just isn't a given. Players need to play with passion and a love for the game and I think some of that was removed for a time. The horrible officiating we've experienced also presented a bit of a black cloud of helplessness as the team was damned if they did/didn't. How DO you work around it when teams can get away with so much? The mental adjustments that have had to been made weren't instantaneous...takes time to figure out "ok, what now?". To get so close and then watch as it disintegrated, the psychological effect of that was likely very prevalent.

So don't just pin it on one guy and expect that he can wave his magic GM wand and address all of this with some magic trades and acquisitions. Don't quickly assess things as "errors". Nothing is for certain in any of it...you roll the dice with those you do have faith in and see what pans out. If timing, good health, solid officiating and a bit of luck all come together, then a team wins. Some of the best players in the league didn't win the cup the past few years (either), so there are no guarantees that a few filled roster spots are the answer. That's my point. I like the patient, methodical approach that MG takes. Sorry?

[In the Slot]

That's the lazy, in a nutshell response that people look for, but it's not that simple and I tend to look at what may have contributed to that in an overall picture.

There was a huge deflation after what went down...that was a mental hurdle that was obviously hard to overcome. When you have the wind knocked out of you like that, it's hard to get back up there again...so the motivation following that just hasn't been there. The hunger and drive to immediately propel themselves to that state again. Players need to play with passion and a love for the game and I think some of that was removed for a time. The horrible officiating we've experienced also presented a bit of a black cloud of helplessness as the team was damned if they did/didn't. How DO you work around it when teams can get away with so much? The mental adjustments that have had to been made weren't instantaneous...takes time to figure out "ok, what now?". To get so close and then watch as it disintegrated, the psychological effect of that was likely very prevalent.

So don't just pin it on one guy and expect that he can wave his magic GM wand and address all of this with some magic trades and acquisitions. Don't quickly assess things as "errors". Nothing is for certain in any of it...you roll the dice with those you do have faith in and see what pans out. If timing, good health, solid officiating and a bit of luck all come together, then a team wins. Some of the best players in the league didn't win the cup the past few years (either), so there are no guarantees that a few filled roster spots are the answer. That's my point. I like the patient, methodical approach that MG takes. Sorry?

[Merci]

Joined: 30-June 13

Fans really need to take pill, I mean if you're categorically listing from A to J why we should have kept every player so our roster would look like this now.

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Grabner Kesler Sammuellson

Higgins Hodgson Hansen

Torres Lapierre Weise

You are a magnificent fool, and really don't know anything about hockey,

Only thing Gillis can be criticized for is Luc Bourdon dying, Malhotra's eye dying, Ballard trade, and Booth trade

Cody Hodgson is ready to walk away from Buffalo cuz he wants more money. If you people are still telling me Gillis is an idiot for losing that trade then a lot of us are beyond response.

[In the Slot]

Crediting a guy who hasn't worked here since the WCE was running the top line is sillier, don't you think?

[In the Slot]

Joined: 30-June 13

[-DLC-]

I didn't suggest any magic wands

I showed you a confluence and compounding of errors. Again the officiating comment. Sorry I played competitive hockey. All the players face the same officiating and if you watched this years playoffs you'd see bad officiating is not limited to Vancouver Canucks games. Please don't use such a weak excuse.

You clearly think MG has improved this team since its exit vs. LA. My point, and again its written very clearly in the OP, is that team has been getting weaker and weaker because of bad decisions. That's not a good trend, its not the right direction.

I completely disagree and this season will show us who's right.

This is untrue. And if you don't see that other teams can get away with things that we can't, you're wrong.

And, as I've said before....how many teams have had a player who (whether they've "dived" or not) has had to take a pre-game skate with a ref who berated him? Then followed through on his promise in focusing mainly on him vs the game? I'll tell you how many - zero.

So let the facts speak to this comment.

[Spoosh]

fans like you are the ones who are destroying this team. Fans like you over value the assets we let go or didn't get, and under value our own players who actually want to stay here.

Then you treat this team like the ones you saw in NHL 13 and bitch on any moves that our GM or players made. There is absolutely no logic behind your arguments other than trying to get a change of staffs to satisfy your hunger for new stuffs... much like how a kid want to see new toys.

Gillis isn't perfect, and he made some mistakes in the past, but that's life because he's human. Using hindsight to complain about how bad the deals he made were is in my opinion, a very stupid thing to do.

[In the Slot]

This is untrue. And if you don't see that, say, Boston gets away with more than we ever will, you're wrong.

And, as I've said before....how many teams have had a player who (whether they've "dived" or not) has had to take a pre-game skate with a ref who berated him? Then followed through on his promise in focusing mainly on him vs the game? I'll tell you how many - zero.

So let the facts speak to this comment.

[In the Slot]

First reply to the OP says pretty much all that needs to be said. OP is trying to be clever by pointing out stuff that have happened, and might not have gone well. At the same time he totally ignores the fact that our team has been one of the best in the NHL in recent years with the additions made, growth and development of them and the ones that were here even before MG.

It's easy to point a finger at mistakes already made. And that is what you did there.

Under GMMG, this team has done better and produced better results than ever before in the history of the franchise - ever. Albeit not a cup yet. But during the time many of those writing here have been fans of the Canucks or hockey in general, not many teams have won it all. Just a handful... And it's a tough thing to be the best of 30 teams, yes? When you never draft high and get a 18 year old or two who are instantly NHL-ready, it does get difficult.

One of the things he should have addressed ages ago, was our scouting.

I for one thought the Ballard trade was a good one back wen it was made, even if I anticipated Grabner to pretty much as good as he is now. Ballard was brutally misused for years and by his own fault too, of course, not just AV.

What he pulled with Ehrhoff was pure genius. You not overly unhappy with that too?

Too bad we were unable to keep him here... But that's how it goes sometimes on the UFA market.

The Luongo -deal and saga could have been mastered differently. But the contract was a difficult one to move. When he signed, he wanted it, GMMG and the ownership wanted it, the fans wanted it. Everyone wanted Luongo to stay, and he was payed top dollar to play here and with a fair cap hit too. Every fan and person involved knew he was getting older, even he did. Now, a few years later it's like - wtf, we trade Cory and keep the washed up oldtimer...

Not one game has been played with the new staff, players, prospects, tactics, divisions and conferences, and ALL I hear is whining.

What if, just what if Jensen, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Schroeder, Läck, Corrado, Subban all make the team and play 82 games each? Happy then? Probably not.

[mrhopeless]

If A. had any sense he'd fire Gillis immediately. He's currently blaming all his mistakes on the CBA, but he was well aware of the changes that were coming, and was told he needed to get rid of Luongo's contract. He had an opportunity to both get rid of the contract and get something in return but he didn't. What he showed us was another example of his complete incompetence.

- It's time he started admitting his mistakes rather than blaming everyone and everything else. In the last few years we've discovered that his big talk is nothing but smoke.

[In the Slot]

If A. had any sense he'd fire Gillis immediately. He's currently blaming all his mistakes on the CBA, but he was well aware of the changes that were coming, and was told he needed to get rid of Luongo's contract. He had an opportunity to both get rid of the contract and get something in return but he didn't. What he showed us was another example of his complete incompetence.

- It's time he started admitting his mistakes rather than blaming everyone and everything else. In the last few years we've discovered that his big talk is nothing but smoke.