Scottish Independence.

[ckamo]

I'm neither Scottish nor English, but I lived in Scotland for a year while studying. Almost every young Scot I talked to about this either seemed to not give a damn or was against Independence, so i will be interested as to how it all plays out.

However I wonder if both parties would suffer a bit without the other. There's also that issue with Scotland having to wait to get into the EU as well?

[Lancaster]

I always find it strange that Canada and America is always preaching multiculturalism. Vastly different ethnic groups, different religion, etc.... all coming together.

The rest of the world, every single "group" seems to want their own country. Regardless that their neighbours are pretty much the same people, same ancestry, etc.... except one side pronounce it "to-mah-to" and the other "to-mae-to" and suddenly it's a divisive enough issue.

[DeNiro]

I'm half Scottish and half English, and I think it would be a mistake.

Scotland is much stronger as part of the UK than it would be on it's own.

Not the time to be weakening their economy IMO.

[The Situation]

I don't really know a whole lot about Scotland to say much about the upcoming referendum. However, my advice is to limit outside interference and influence. Don't let people who were born elsewhere and lived their whole lives outside Scotland influence your decision. I know for sure if B.C. had an upcoming sovereignty referendum, I sure as hell would not be giving a damn about the opinion of someone the other side of the world (and probably never been to B.C.).

[The Situation]

Quebec separating would cut off the rest of Canada from the Maritimes

[King Heffy]

I highly doubt it. Quebec would be partitioned. Ungava, the vast northern part of Quebec making up the majority of the land would most likely remain a part of Canada. Its sparsely populated but those who do live there are English speaking Natives who voted overwhelmingly to remain in Canada. This is what it would probably look like after all is said and done.

[The Situation]

Still a huge blob of blue between NB, NS, PEI and the rest of Canada. Quebec separating would cripple those provinces' economies.

Bodee, would Scotland be fast-tracked into the EU if it did separate?

[King Heffy]

This map was just a rough one based on the Eastern townships, Montreal, and Ungava going to Canada. They probably wouldn't repeat the mistakes made in past historical partitions such as with India. A contiguous border wouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

[The Situation]

An independent Quebec without Montreal would be brutal for its residents. The country would not be economically viable; no way would they ever agree to that.

[Mainly Mattias]

leaving the history aside, what would be the current benefits for separating though (Scotland, not Quebec)?

[hudson bay rules]

The Scottish pound is legal tender throughout the UK. Not everywhere in England accepts it (although I've never had a problem) because they've somehow got the idea that it's "monopoly money", when it has the exact same value.

[Bodee]

The point is, and I realise that many of you have limited knowledge of the UK.......... Scotland as a people very seldom get the government they vote for. (I think it is once in the last 50 years)

Not only that but how would you feel if you lived in a country oil rich and renewable power rich and yet not only paid some of the highest petrol/gas prices in Europe but your pensioners can barely afford to heat and light their houses (in a climate colder and damper in winter darker than the rest of the UK)

We have surplus energy and are charged a higher rate to send it to England than English suppliers.

Life expectancy at birth is also less in Scotland than in any EU country apart from Portugal.

Throughout the last decade, the rate of deaths amongst those aged 55 to 64 in Scotland has been at least a quarter higher than in England and Wales for both men and women.

Despite what some above think we are not equal partners. We had our country sold from beneath us by a few bankrupt nobles and against the wishes of the people at the time (there was rioting all over Scotland) and although it was painted as a "partnership" it has been mostly one way.

Things have been getting steadily worse for Scotland as we find ourselves part of a UK that would rather waste £billions on wars and arms than look after the poor and generate the economy around these islands. Our utilities are nearly all owned by European companies and we must be the poorest country in the World ever to sit on billions of gallons of oil.

Norway for example has an Oil Fund of £800 billion.

But the worst thing is we are unable to set our own fiscal policies to benefit our companies or our people. We don't raise our own taxes and we have no ability therefore to properly grow our infrastructure, set our own corporation tax or do virtually anything that would re-generate our economy.

We have to live under (as do many other parts of England) policies tuned to suit London and the South East of England. This has the effect of drawing the best companies, the best talents to it like a magnet. The rest of the UK and specially Scotland just gets left to survive on "pocket money" while we see our own resources prop up this sick regime.

So to you people who think "we are stronger together" please believe me when I say, yes we make England stronger but we act only as a resource for that strength and see very little benefit in Scotland.

I would ask anyone who is able to, to travel the South East including London, notice all the new sporting complexes, swimming pools, motorways, high speed rail links, new office blocks, flats houses, etc and then go North (not just to Scotland) and notice the degradation in all these things the further North you travel.

This island is only 600 miles long. What reason, other than by design could such disparity exist in such a short distance.

[theminister]

As a UK and Canadian dual citizen, with English and Scottish sides from my parents, I would vote for independence.

As a former resident of Spain I would also vote for Catalonian independence too. The Basque will be next as they can't deny them after Catatlonia gets their vote.

[Bill Sikes]

I don't know enough about all the issues to clearly say how I would vote, if I was a Scottish citizen I would try not to let my heart rule my mind and vote based on what would be best for Scotland. I have always thought of Scotland as a separate country from England anyway.

[Bill Sikes]

The point is, and I realise that many of you have limited knowledge of the UK.......... Scotland as a people very seldom get the government they vote for. (I think it is once in the last 50 years)

Not only that but how would you feel if you lived in a country oil rich and renewable power rich and yet not only paid some of the highest petrol/gas prices in Europe but your pensioners can barely afford to heat and light their houses (in a climate colder and damper in winter darker than the rest of the UK)

We have surplus energy and are charged a higher rate to send it to England than English suppliers.

Life expectancy at birth is also less in Scotland than in any EU country apart from Portugal.

Throughout the last decade, the rate of deaths amongst those aged 55 to 64 in Scotland has been at least a quarter higher than in England and Wales for both men and women.

Despite what some above think we are not equal partners. We had our country sold from beneath us by a few bankrupt nobles and against the wishes of the people at the time (there was rioting all over Scotland) and although it was painted as a "partnership" it has been mostly one way.

Things have been getting steadily worse for Scotland as we find ourselves part of a UK that would rather waste £billions on wars and arms than look after the poor and generate the economy around these islands. Our utilities are nearly all owned by European companies and we must be the poorest country in the World ever to sit on billions of gallons of oil.

Norway for example has an Oil Fund of £800 billion.

But the worst thing is we are unable to set our own fiscal policies to benefit our companies or our people. We don't raise our own taxes and we have no ability therefore to properly grow our infrastructure, set our own corporation tax or do virtually anything that would re-generate our economy.

We have to live under (as do many other parts of England) policies tuned to suit London and the South East of England. This has the effect of drawing the best companies, the best talents to it like a magnet. The rest of the UK and specially Scotland just gets left to survive on "pocket money" while we see our own resources prop up this sick regime.

So to you people who think "we are stronger together" please believe me when I say, yes we make England stronger but we act only as a resource for that strength and see very little benefit in Scotland.

I would ask anyone who is able to, to travel the South East including London, notice all the new sporting complexes, swimming pools, motorways, high speed rail links, new office blocks, flats houses, etc and then go North (not just to Scotland) and notice the degradation in all these things the further North you travel.

This island is only 600 miles long. What reason, other than by design could such disparity exist in such a short distance.

[RUPERTKBD]

Bodee makes a pretty compelling case. I'm not well enough versed to state whether I'd vote yes or no, but those of us in the west are fairly conversant with the idea of lack of representation in federal matters.

I have a good freind who's a Scottish ex-pat. (Aberdeen) I'd be interested to hear her opinion.

[aGENT]

leaving the history aside, what would be the current benefits for separating though (Scotland, not Quebec)?

[Bodee]

J.R.

Thats's not easy to do.

Mainly because the UK government refuse to put a case for staying in. Instead they try to frighten the Scottish voters with this kind of thing. (I lifted tis from my soccer forum as it is easier than writing it all again.) Excuse the expletives......we can be a bit fiery over here, as you might have guessed.

Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par

Date: Mon 15 Jul 19:20

Neither.

He is trying to justify 'scaremongering' as 'legitimate questions'.

There are no facts given.

The Unionists are not lying, because they don't assert anything, simply state an open detriment that is possible

- Scotland could lose this

- Scotland could lose that

- Scotland could be thrown out of EU/NATO/UN/Olympics/Sesame Street

- Scotland could pay more for phone call roaming

- rUK might not buy electricity from Scotland

- rUK could take control of Faslane

- Shetland could want their own Independence

- shít might happen

ALTERNATIVELY

We might all be fekkin grown-ups about it!

for example:

The UK government has the power to ask the EU to give a definitive statement on the status of Scotland after Independence.

The EU have stated this much and will answer a member country making such a request - but the UK govt refuse to ask the question.

Why?

Because they can still throw out 'if', 'maybe', 'could' statements.

Lets do proper discussions - with facts, not conjecture.

Let the electorate know exactly (good and bad) what they would be getting, and let us make an informed decision.

However - who do you think would gain more from this?

I suspect that the whole reason the UK govt are not prepared to enter what it terms as 'pre-negotiations' is that an honest appraisal would be a gift to the Independence cause.

I suspect the real reason the UK Government refuse to put a case is because they realise that Scotland could answer with better alternatives. I and many of my friends can't even get the friends who intend voting NO to state a decent case for staying in.

I have been sent the first such list only minutes ago which was composed by a solicitor who managed to become UK Chancellor of the Exchequer ........Alistair Darling, a Scot would you believe? I will post it once I have read it.

[aGENT]

J.R.

Thats's not easy to do.

[McMillan]

I'd vote independence. There's nothing saying that Scotland and England can't work together after independence just that Scotland would have control of their own household. I wouldn't want someone taking control of my finances and telling me how to manage them.