Scottish Independence.

[Bodee]

JR most impartial 3rd parties have no doubt that Scotland could do well on it's own. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with that and more about the detrimental effect our leaving would have on England.

For 3 centuries the English have acted as if Scotland was part of England. Many history books even say "England won the War" I'm sure you have even heard it in films and read it in literature.

Did you know Canada lost just over 42,000 in the 2nd WW with a population of over 12,000,000........... Scotland lost 34,000 with a population of just over 5,000,000. and yet our youngsters are brainwashed even today with how "England won the War" Like the Ausies, Canada, and NZ we were often used as canon fodder by incompetent British commanders.

But I stray from the point.

Many of us look at Norway, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, New Zealand and envy their having their own sovereignty. The ability to make their own decisions and yes their own mistakes.

[aGENT]

JR most impartial 3rd parties have no doubt that Scotland could do well on it's own. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with that and more about the detrimental effect our leaving would have on England.

For 3 centuries the English have acted as if Scotland was part of England. Many history books even say "England won the War" I'm sure you have even heard it in films and read it in literature.

Did you know Canada lost just over 42,000 in the 2nd WW with a population of over 12,000,000........... Scotland lost 34,000 with a population of just over 5,000,000. and yet our youngsters are brainwashed even today with how "England won the War" Like the Ausies, Canada, and NZ we were often used as canon fodder by incompetent British commanders.

But I stray from the point.

Many of us look at Norway, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, New Zealand and envy their having their own sovereignty. The ability to make their own decisions and yes their own mistakes.

[Bodee]

JR, It is not going to happen. The reasons are simple, they are political as well as sociological. This situation has been brewing since the Labour party set up the devolved parliament in Scotland to appease the Scots but it had no economic teeth. Locally Scotland has probably been governed better by the SNP over the last 5 years than it has ever been.

Here is how Alex Salmond put it. (Scotlan'd First Minister)

"The disparities in life expectancy between different parts of Scotland, for example, are just one piece of evidence demonstrating that Scotland still needs to do far more to reduce inequality.

John Smith's basic point, that egalitarianism, is a strong driving force in public life in Scotland, is undoubtedly true.

It is why we recognise that some forms of social protection work very well, and that the constant urge to 'reform' can be, in the wrong hands, code for attack. (referring to the Tories tightening the screw on welfare)

It is why policies which exacerbate inequality and remove basic safety nets are always likely to encounter fierce opposition in Scotland.

And it is why anyone who accepted the union partly because of the compassionate values and inclusive vision of the post-war welfare state, may now be less keen on being part of a union whose government is in many respects eroding those values and destroying that vision."

Scots don't want to be a "world power" we don't favour right wing politics, whether it is inherently because we are Celts I am not sure but we see no gain in the imperialist interfering that the UK is being drawn into more and more

When there were riots last year in England the Scots and the Welsh didn't join in. We saw no point in stealing and looting from our own people.........because that's what it was.

Don't misunderstand me the majority of Scots are still either against or undecided about independence and I therefor don't speak for all of us. However there is a long way to go and I suspect there are many who are gradually be won over. If not I see little future for my homeland.

[aGENT]

As I said. It would better if they can both play in the sandbox but if that's not possible without one kid bullying the other and starting a fight... by all means both of you can go to your respective rooms and stay there until your able to behave more appropriately.

[Buddhas Hand]

Yeah a brief summary of pros/cons would be helpful.

I'm of Scots ancestory, so I'll be interested in the results, that's for sure.

I don't know enough to make an informed decision but my gut says cooperation trumps division every time. My guess is both countries have the capacity to do better working together than separately. Having said that, some balance of power, resources, taxation might need to be sorted out.

Perhaps a system similar to what we have in Canada for our Aboriginal people would be best? It would allow for your own independent governing within the UK, more say in the use of your resources, taxation etc but would maintain the benefits and cooperation with being part of the bigger UK.

Don't get me wrong, as a Scots descendant, I fully appreciate the desire for freedom and independence from England but this isn't the middle ages anymore. The tyranny people once dealt with isn't really an issue anymore. Seems to me there's a better. more cooperative way to work together for the benefit of everyone.

[theminister]

Get rid of all borders?

Except for impassable mountains and waterways it's all an imaginary construct anyway.

[Buddhas Hand]

Get rid of all borders?

Except for impassable mountains and waterways it's all an imaginary construct anyway.

[Heretic]

If we're such a drain on the rest of the UK then ask yourself why Westminster is so desperate to keep the union in place? Why don't they just let us go and save everyone down there so much money?

The Scottish pound is legal tender throughout the UK. Not everywhere in England accepts it (although I've never had a problem) because they've somehow got the idea that it's "monopoly money", when it has the exact same value.

[Scotty McMullet]

There are two huge issues that the Scottish Government hasn’t appropriately addressed in the independence discussion, who would be responsible for unfunded public sector pension liabilities built up prior to independence and how would EU solvency requirements for defined benefit schemes be met across the UK if Scotland became independent.

In March 2011, unfunded public sector pension liabilities were £893 billion, which represented 93% of all UK public sector pension liabilities and 37% of all UK liabilities. What would Scotland’s share be in the opening balance sheet? There are of course Scottish based schemes within this total, amounting to about £60 billion (about 70% of Scottish public sector pension liabilities). The Scottish and UK governments would have to work to identify the additional liabilities relating to Scottish based members of UK wide public sector schemes. This is by no means an easy task and I’m sure both governments would have very different ideas on how to calculate the total. There were approx. 581,000 people working in the public sector in Scotland in Q1 of 2013, and approx. 5,700,000 in total in the UK. A rough calculation puts Scottish employees at 10.2%. Taking an additional 10.2% of the £833 billion (total less £60 billion unfunded for Scotland) would give Scotland a total unfunded pension liability of £145 billion.

The second point above raises the issue of unfunded cross-border schemes which operate across the UK. Under EU law, schemes which operate in more than one country must fund their liabilities in full and any underfunding must be rectified immediately rather than through a staged recovery plan, an almost impossible task. Dealing with underfunding would have major cost and cashflow issues for employers and cross-border schemes.

These types of issues must be resolved before any action can be taken. Salmond likes to concentrate of the fancy topics that make the headlines. His use of public events to promote independence is shameful (Wimbledon being a primary example). There’s no doubt he’s a clever man and a good politician but he’s dragging his name through the mud with some of his recent actions.

[aGENT]

Seems to me that this is the way all human beings should be thinking, we are all linked whether we like it or not.

[Bodee]

There are two huge issues that the Scottish Government hasn't appropriately addressed in the independence discussion, who would be responsible for unfunded public sector pension liabilities built up prior to independence and how would EU solvency requirements for defined benefit schemes be met across the UK if Scotland became independent.

In March 2011, unfunded public sector pension liabilities were £893 billion, which represented 93% of all UK public sector pension liabilities and 37% of all UK liabilities. What would Scotland's share be in the opening balance sheet? There are of course Scottish based schemes within this total, amounting to about £60 billion (about 70% of Scottish public sector pension liabilities). The Scottish and UK governments would have to work to identify the additional liabilities relating to Scottish based members of UK wide public sector schemes. This is by no means an easy task and I'm sure both governments would have very different ideas on how to calculate the total. There were approx. 581,000 people working in the public sector in Scotland in Q1 of 2013, and approx. 5,700,000 in total in the UK. A rough calculation puts Scottish employees at 10.2%. Taking an additional 10.2% of the £833 billion (total less £60 billion unfunded for Scotland) would give Scotland a total unfunded pension liability of £145 billion.

The second point above raises the issue of unfunded cross-border schemes which operate across the UK. Under EU law, schemes which operate in more than one country must fund their liabilities in full and any underfunding must be rectified immediately rather than through a staged recovery plan, an almost impossible task. Dealing with underfunding would have major cost and cashflow issues for employers and cross-border schemes.

These types of issues must be resolved before any action can be taken. Salmond likes to concentrate of the fancy topics that make the headlines. His use of public events to promote independence is shameful (Wimbledon being a primary example). There's no doubt he's a clever man and a good politician but he's dragging his name through the mud with some of his recent actions.

[Tearloch7]

As a Scot by ancestry on both sides, I definately support independence. As a sworn enemy of Longshanks AND Robert the Bruce, i fart in there general direction. We stole Robert's brooch when he slipped out of his cloak, and would have had his life had he not fled into the night dressed as a woman .. well done, Robert ..

[Bodee]

As a Scot by ancestry on both sides, I definately support independence. As a sworn enemy of Longshanks AND Robert the Bruce, i fart in there general direction. We stole Robert's brooch when he slipped out of his cloak, and would have had his life had he not fled into the night dressed as a woman .. well done, Robert ..

[Bodee]

Contd. Had to repost.

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

These types of issues must be resolved before any action can be taken. Salmond likes to concentrate of the fancy topics that make the headlines. His use of public events to promote independence is shameful (Wimbledon being a primary example). There's no doubt he's a clever man and a good politician but he's dragging his name through the mud with some of his recent actions.

[Tearloch7]

I take it you are talking about Bonnie Prince Charlie T7 ...........I'm not familiar with The Bruce dressing up as a lady to escape. If not, you have me confused.........I'll have whatever you're smoking........or quaffing

By the way you would love it over here just now. The hot weather just keeps on going.

Her's one of my local beaches as I'm used to it

This is how it looks most days this summer..............

[Bodee]

Ah Brodee, my lad .. mt dearest cousin has never been .. and since we have stopped drinking irresponsibly, we are planning a trip in the summer of 2015 .. about six weeks minimum .. as time approaches I will be looking at a way to meet you so I can give ya a big hug ..

[Tearloch7]

Hopefully we can drink a toast in an Independent Scotland.

[Scotty McMullet]

Wimbledon was completely blown out of proportion. He took out a saltire. Andy Murray is Scottish.

How dare he!

[Bodee]

He's a man of the people. No airs and graces with Alex. He a wooly cardigan and baffies guy who likes a punt and a day at the fitba"

In short I would have been disappointed if he hadn't.

Here's tae us, wha's like us, Damn few and they're aw deid!

Don't let the English media condition your reaction to such things Scotty............they elect warmongers who fleece the people, we elected a man who is twice their equal in any field of statesmanship.